Collar pins - questions

[shadowrider]

Hey folks,
even though I don't wear a tie that often nowadays, I always liked the subtle sophistication of collar pins. I am talking about the safety pins-alike ones that clip your shirt collar together and pop your tie knot slightly up.
I may be wrong, but I think they have some military history, as I am quite sure they are worn with some type of uniform by the UK Royal Navy (unfortunately a google search could not lead me to any evidence of this).
What I always wondered is, are they just a simple old-style, large safety pin (akin to a blanket or kilt pin), or are they any different?
If any collar pin-wearing fellow lounger cares to comment, what would be the ideal size for them? I've seen them ranging from 2" to over 3".

 

[viclip]

Hey folks,
even though I don't wear a tie that often nowadays, I always liked the subtle sophistication of collar pins. I am talking about the safety pins-alike ones that clip your shirt collar together and pop your tie knot slightly up.
I may be wrong, but I think they have some military history, as I am quite sure they are worn with some type of uniform by the UK Royal Navy (unfortunately a google search could not lead me to any evidence of this).
What I always wondered is, are they just a simple old-style, large safety pin (akin to a blanket or kilt pin), or are they any different?
If any collar pin-wearing fellow lounger cares to comment, what would be the ideal size for them? I've seen them ranging from 2" to over 3".

Do you mean something like this? ~

https://tiechest.com/listing/488324477/vintage-collar-bar-15-4cm-gold-tone

Just from looking at the photo on the linked page, I can't figure out how this item would be worn.

Can you provide a link or pic of what you're referring to if different?

 

[johnnycanuck]

Are you referring to a lapel pin? If so I used to wear them all the time.
Johnny

 

[hatsRme]

The photo above is a pretty standard collar pin, as I remember wearing. The device (or, "do-dah") is placed beneath the knot, at approximately the position where the tie hangs out from the bottom of the knot. The "wings" of the collar are slide into pin on each end.

Not appropriate for all collar styles, as they are impossible to apply to a wide spread collar.

 

[viclip]

The photo above is a pretty standard collar pin, as I remember wearing. The device (or, "do-dah") is placed beneath the knot, at approximately the position where the tie hangs out from the bottom of the knot. The "wings" of the collar are slide into pin on each end.
View attachment 80838


Not appropriate for all collar styles, as they are impossible to apply to a wide spread collar.

So a large safety pin thingie is used to pierce the collar, if I understand it, & prop up the necktie.

The collar pins that I'm familiar with are the "barbell" type i.e. a thin bar a couple or so inches long with balls, squares etc. at the ends. One of the end pieces screws away from the bar portion, which is then inserted through 2 tiny holes, one in each tip of the collar; the removable end piece is then screwed back on thereby securing the contraption. Here's a link to what I'm referring to:

https://tiechest.com/listing/267479904/vintage-swank-collar-bar-holder-barbell

The issue with the barbell collar pins is that the shirt collar must have specially pierced tiny holes. Such shirts are seldom seen on the shelf anymore plus they look a bit odd if not worn with the barbell collar pin inserted. It never occurred to me to use a safety pin instead, which could be used with any shirt collar & without requiring permanent access holes in the collar tips.

Having said all of that, in my opinion I look horrible sporting a necktie lifted up by a collar bar. The only shirt which I ever acquired with those holes in the collar tips, was quickly converted into a shirt with permanent studs where the holes used to be.

Still, it's nice to know about such things.

 

[Edward]

The style varies, though the most common ones I've seen are like small collar pins. The most commonly available size these days seems to be 2". Fine for a modern collar with quite a wide splay and a modern tie with a big knot, but no use for a vintage tie and spearpoint collar. Whatever the shirt, the pin needs to be narrow enough to pull the collar blades together under the tie. With a decent spearpoint collar, I prefer a pin of 1.25" to 1.5".

Anyone trying to sell a 3" "collar pin" is either catering to giants or doesn't know the difference between a collar pin and a kilt pin.

 

[hatsRme]

So a large safety pin thingie is used to pierce the collar, if I understand it, & prop up the necktie.

No, not piercing the collar. The collar "pin" is applied with the loop side away from the wearer, and the retaining "tang" in back, behind the collar. To install, slide each collar firmly between the front loops and the back tang.

 

[viclip]

No, not piercing the collar. The collar "pin" is applied with the loop side away from the wearer, and the retaining "tang" in back, behind the collar. To install, slide each collar firmly between the front loops and the back tang.
View attachment 80859

maybe I'd better stick to tie chains, something I can handle

 

[Edward]

No, not piercing the collar. The collar "pin" is applied with the loop side away from the wearer, and the retaining "tang" in back, behind the collar. To install, slide each collar firmly between the front loops and the back tang.
View attachment 80859

Collar clips like that are certainly another option (though not the only one - they were used about as often as pins bars) and if you want to avoid piercing the collar (great especially for fused collar blades which tend to show the holes from a pin). Having the right length of clip for this is very important - too splayed a collar and it will just slide off.

 

[shadowrider]

Thanks all for the replies.
There seem to be a bit of a confusion about these somewhat outdated little accessories. The collar pins I was writing about are the ones that look just like safety pins. There are also what I call collar clips, that do not pierce the collar and are of the kind @hatsRme is referring to. Then lastly what I call collar bars, which @viclip described and require dedicatred holes in the shirt collar.
Note that I am not positive at all about the correct names of these three types. Anyway I think these are the existing styles of shirt collar retainers and I am not aware of any other configurtion.
I personally like the "pins" because, besides not requiring holes in the collar, they seem to me the most incospicuous ones.

 

[Shangas]

I've always called them collar bars. They're pretty nifty. I have two or three which I wear occasionally.

 

[AlmostDecapitatedByMyCollar]

I personally have a collar clip. They have two clips on the back.

and they clasp on to the collar. In my experience they work with both medium spread collars and spearpoint collars

today I'm wearing a 1970s bold cotton shirt but it looks the same on my 1930s spearpoint collar shirt.


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[Hynes]

Hey folks,
even though I don't wear a tie that often nowadays, I always liked the subtle sophistication of collar pins. I am talking about the safety pins-alike ones that clip your shirt collar together and pop your tie knot slightly up.
I may be wrong, but I think they have some military history, as I am quite sure they are worn with some type of uniform by the UK Royal Navy (unfortunately a google search could not lead me to any evidence of this).
What I always wondered is, are they just a simple old-style, large safety pin (akin to a blanket or kilt pin), or are they any different?
If any collar pin-wearing fellow lounger cares to comment, what would be the ideal size for them? I've seen them ranging from 2" to over 3".

I like to wear a collar pin when I wear a tie. I used to have a 2'' one but I lost it by accident. Now I'm using a few 2.5'' ones. Both 2'' and 2.5'' work well for me.

AFAIK royal navy from UK/Australia/Canada didn't wear collar pins during WW2. CWAC and RCAFWD from Canada wore them a lot, and UK's ATS and Australia's navy nurses also wore them from time to time. It seems that collar pins were never included as a must in the dress code but only worn at will, but I have no evidence on that. Happy to discuss more about this topic if you have more information.