Cockpit 100 Mission G-1

[Deacon211]

Thanks Deacon, you are an inspiration!!

Jacket looks even better now I've put some miles on it, grains popped a bit, gained some creases & it's more Matt in appearance. A bit snug when zippered upper third of sternum but perfect in all fit aspects to that point..thus 80%..Good Enough

Looks great man! Huh, I've never been an inspiration.

More generally I serve as a cautionary tale!

I have pulled the trigger on a Cockpit Forrestal without patches. Am a little nervous about lengths... and the 'lengths' I have been too, to try and get measurements... boy. Anyway, heres hoping...

I hope it works for ya Bretta, it's a damn fine looking jacket.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[kojax]

this could be my nexet jacket cockpit usa

 

[TXFlyGuy]

The G-1 with removable collar. Why not just get an A-2? Wait until they have another 20% off sale, plus free shipping. Late spring, or early summer.

 

[Brettafett]

@kojax... thats the one. I will review it when it arrives.
@TXFlyGuy... I am an A-2 man, have owned dozens. Went for this cause the bi-swing back and satin lining are on another level regs comfort and ease of wearing. When it gets warmer, I find the mouton collars a bit warm... this jacket could be worn year round. I still have an M422a on the radar... And I want to look like James Spader in Tuff Turf (see thread, Famous people if flight jackets)

 

[WARHAWK]

Brettafett, this is great to hear, this is exactly the reason we make this jacket. Some guys don't think they get enough days where the fur is necessary, and some really don't like a removable collar. We sell 21 different versions of a G-1, and and 29 different versions of A-2's, pockets are different, leather is different, fur, no fur, original fit, contemporary fit, all kinds. We have some people that want something as close to their old jacket the day they receive it in regards to being warn in, some people who want a Horsehide A-2 that can stand up on it's own because that is original. a Map pocket is great, until your hands are freezing, that type of stuff. the variations are much more driven by customer input, than marketing genius, trust me. looking forward to the review.

This is the G-1 that I wear, I am not a big fur guy, I lean towards an A-2, but I liked the fact that the Forrestal felt like I had owned it for 10 years the day I pulled the tag off, most A-2's take a bit more effort.

 

[Deacon211]

Hey Warhawk, welcome back.

Did you ever come across anything in reference to the leather tabs at the bottom of only a few maker's G-1s, whether or not Avirex in the past shared jacket makers with the other jackets who share this attribute, or anything along those lines?

I'd love to hear what you discovered about the Type 440 as well. It's a bit of a white elephant around here over the years.

I really like the Forrestal as a jacket and I definitely understand that the Cockpit gives the people what they want. I do confess though that some of the more "inventive" descriptions were a disappointment when I eventually found out that there was some license taken with them.

It's like the old Harry Anderson (judge from Night Court) routine where he shows you what he claims to be Washington's hatchet...only he replaced the handle.

And the head.

 

[WARHAWK]

Hey Warhawk, welcome back.

Did you ever come across anything in reference to the leather tabs at the bottom of only a few maker's G-1s, whether or not Avirex in the past shared jacket makers with the other jackets who share this attribute, or anything along those lines?

I'd love to hear what you discovered about the Type 440 as well. It's a bit of a white elephant around here over the years.

I really like the Forrestal as a jacket and I definitely understand that the Cockpit gives the people what they want. I do confess though that some of the more "inventive" descriptions were a disappointment when I eventually found out that there was some license taken with them.

It's like the old Harry Anderson (judge from Night Court) routine where he shows you what he claims to be Washington's hatchet...only he replaced the handle.

And the head.

will work on top question:

There are always historical roots, and often the archives are deeper than the memories.

Type 440: It was developed as a conceptual piece worn by civilian and military aviators in the 1930's. It was designed by the AVIREX founder to take into account several key elements from jackets of that period. There are however references to the Type 440 in the book "Hell-Bent for leather" (Derek Nelson & Dave Parsons) it references a pre-G-1 jacket "sometimes referred to as the Type 440", and that had distinctive diamond patched sleeves.

Forrestal Jacket is a Type- ANJ-3
it is a commercial adaptation that addressed people who didn't want the fur collar on their G-1.

 

[Deacon211]

will work on top question:

There are always historical roots, and often the archives are deeper than the memories.

Type 440: It was developed as a conceptual piece worn by civilian and military aviators in the 1930's. It was designed by the AVIREX founder to take into account several key elements from jackets of that period. There are however references to the Type 440 in the book "Hell-Bent for leather" (Derek Nelson & Dave Parsons) it references a pre-G-1 jacket "sometimes referred to as the Type 440", and that had distinctive diamond patched sleeves.

Forrestal Jacket is a Type- ANJ-3
it is a commercial adaptation that addressed people who didn't want the fur collar on their G-1.

Thanks Warhawk,

These are always interesting discussions and I don't want to come across as going after the Cockpit. You could take a look at Orvis' RAF sweater, find pics of the originals here and see why they altered it...the originals fit like baggy tents. But it's hard to know when you are looking at various vendor sites what is real and what is marketing.

The Forrestal as you say is a great looking ANJ-3, a real WWII jacket with its own interesting story. On the Cockpit website though, it is advertised as:

"A hand treated vintage goatskin G-1 Naval Aviator's flight jacket stylized by a U.S.S Forrestal Navy fighter pilot who would have removed the fur collar for more comfort in the hot weather."

which one could argue is something that one might possibly do, but is honestly something that a Navy pilot was probably unlikely to have done. Of course the fact that the jacket is labelled as the Forrestal would not entirely jive with the possibility that the jacket was an ANJ-3 as the Forrestal wasn't commissioned until 1955 I believe.

As to the 440, I think the common conclusion around here was that it was a "what if" piece. People here have pointed to its roots in both the cotton and shearling naval flight jackets of the period. I had the book "Hellbent for Leather" many years ago (I bought it at your old store opposite Tower Records...great place). I recall that it mentioned the Type 440, but I'm not sure that it said anything conclusive about the jacket. It may even have been that the evidence for the jacket was based on the fact that people were making "reproductions" of it.

Anyway, interesting stuff and thanks for the insider scoop. I'm sure that inquiring minds want to know more!

 

[ButteMT61]

Think of how many of these blurbs we've had to as a group dispel over the years.... People see this sort of thing and they take it as gospel (fake jacket news )
That's my issue. Even guys that know a bit see this stuff and wonder what's the real story. We all know that marketing is a lot like statistics - lies, damn lies... but I would prefer just some straight-talk and less bologna.

 

[WARHAWK]

Think of how many of these blurbs we've had to as a group dispel over the years.... People see this sort of thing and they take it as gospel (fake jacket news )
That's my issue. Even guys that know a bit see this stuff and wonder what's the real story. We all know that marketing is a lot like statistics - lies, damn lies... but I would prefer just some straight-talk and less bologna.

We support/operate an aviation museum, you come down to the Hangar, sit amongst the airplanes, and lets shoot this shit, I promise there will be no marketing, but you may get some oil on you

 

[thor]

We support/operate an aviation museum, you come down to the Hangar, sit amongst the airplanes, and lets shoot this shit, I promise there will be no marketing, but you may get some oil on you

Is the hangar/museum in Farmingdale, Long Island next to Republic airport? I've visited there, super cool place! Amongst other projects, they were restoring a PBY Catalina at the time I visited...one of my all-time favorite aircraft!

 

[WARHAWK]

Is the hangar/museum in Farmingdale, Long Island next to Republic airport? I've visited there, super cool place! Amongst other projects, they were restoring a PBY Catalina at the time I visited...one of my all-time favorite aircraft!

That is the one, and the PBY is getting closer, we had to re-build the entire center section, rib....by...rib...big project, but getting to the home stretch. it is indeed one of the coolest planes ever made.

 

[Deacon211]

That is the one, and the PBY is getting closer, we had to re-build the entire center section, rib....by...rib...big project, but getting to the home stretch. it is indeed one of the coolest planes ever made.

I'm sure you've seen the one down in Suffolk? I can't remember the owners name, but he had a great collection down there including a PBY.

 

[ButteMT61]

We support/operate an aviation museum, you come down to the Hangar, sit amongst the airplanes, and lets shoot this shit, I promise there will be no marketing, but you may get some oil on you

Fun stuff. I've been to Paul Allen's Ft Collins, CO where he has some crazy stuff going on. Billionaires...

 

[Peter 1956]

On a slightly different angle is the current issue G1 (ie Excelled) actually worn when flying? I presume the P3 and P8 crews can use it as can the C130 USCG but never seen the fast jet boys and girls wearing them anymore. Nomex seem to be the norm. So only for ground use only??? thanks


Peter

 

[Deacon211]

On a slightly different angle is the current issue G1 (ie Excelled) actually worn when flying? I presume the P3 and P8 crews can use it as can the C130 USCG but never seen the fast jet boys and girls wearing them anymore. Nomex seem to be the norm. So only for ground use only??? thanks


Peter

I can only speak for my time, but the jet guys rarely wore their G-1s in the cockpit, primarily for two reasons:

1. With its polyester collar, cuffs, and lining the G-1 just doesn't do much for you in a fire. While there is nothing written expressly forbidding it, most pilots tended to avoid wearing the jacket in the cockpit. On the other hand the cargo guys and helo drivers seemed less troubled by the notion.

2. Another big reason that we didn't wear the G-1 (and often not the CWU either) was that the parachute harness was designed to be skin tight. Unlike the Air Force harness of the time, the Navy harness was basically like a one piece bathing suit that was made of a single piece of webbing. It went from between your legs, up your back crosswise, over your shoulders, and around your torso with a single buckle across your chest.

If you pulled the chest straps, it tightened the whole thing. When you did it right, you couldn't stand up straight and anything that was caught somewhere you didn't like it was going to be there until you took the whole mess off.

As such, if your harness fit right you shouldn't have been able to fit anything underneath it. And with changing seasons you were supposed to get it refitted so that you could fit your dry suit or long underwear or whatever and still be unable to breathe when you cinched it up. In practice, most guys let it loosen up as much as their fear of ejection snapping off their legs allowed, but it was never loose loose.

Because of that, any jacket you put under it was squirting out of every crevice and was generally way uncomfortable. Some guys actually wore their jackets over the whole mess if it was cold. But you couldn't zip the jacket and connect to the parachute risers. So you would have pretty much looked like a yard sale if you had to eject that way.

And because of all that, the cautious guys wore lots of undergarments under their harness.

And the less cautious guys turned up the heat and prayed for a quick SAR effort.

The guys in combat may have had a bit of a rethink on that one.

 

[Peter 1956]

Thanks for that . It makes perfect sense what you stated. So I gather the P3 and the P8 guys were ok to wear them as they had no chutes to wear?

Cheers

Peter


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Deacon211]

Thanks for that . It makes perfect sense what you stated. So I gather the P3 and the P8 guys were ok to wear them as they had no chutes to wear?

Cheers

Peter


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Well it's always one of those culture things. P-3 and P-8 guys are probably in just as much danger of fire as anyone else in a military airplane. Perhaps there is an increased danger for the guys around the carrier or because the fast movers tend to intentionally poke their noses into places that contain bullets and missiles. But nowhere is particularly safe.

Still there's something about being trussed up like Buck Rogers that lends to the notion that you are always only seconds from bursting into flame. And something about sitting in a chair with a headset and a cup of coffee that somehow makes wearing your jacket seem perfectly normal.

 

[Peter 1956]

So basically i gather that the G1 is no longer worn for flight but only for ground duties? I wonder why they are issued then? Will not the CWU 45/36 fill that niche?

 

[Deacon211]

So basically i gather that the G1 is no longer worn for flight but only for ground duties? I wonder why they are issued then? Will not the CWU 45/36 fill that niche?

For the same reason that the A-2 was reissued to the Air Force about 50 years after it was discontinued. It's an esprit de corps item like medals, badges, insignia, etc.

But like I said, the haulers and helo guys still wear the jacket for flight. It is not specifically forbidden, though the CWUs are probably a better purpose designed jacket (although they soak up water like a sponge).


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk