Coast Guard and Navy Uniforms

[floatinjoe]

I am currently an LT in the Coast Guard and would like to build a WWII Coast Guard Officer's uniform. From the research I've done, no one out there really seems to make reproductions of Coast Guard uniforms. Lucky for me, it is just a Navy uniform with a few of the insignia switched. Does anyone know a good place to either get vintage uniforms or reproductions of Navy uniforms? I'd love to get the dress khakis, but one of the other dress uniforms would be good. Even the tropical khakis could be fun. I'm open to other ideas as well.

I've never gotten involved in recreating 40s era military uniforms, so any advice is appreciated. Most of the stuff I've found has revolved around Army uniforms.

Thanks in advance,
Mike

 

[Hondo]

What have you been drinking Mike and your in the Coast Guard in San Diego? Seriously Joe if you’re in San Diego area, there should be many places you can go or find in Navy Uniforms, check out Army & Navy Surplus Stores, (maybe thats what you mean "only finding Army stuff) Thrift Shops, or dang it Ebay, do Google search if all else fails, or just type in "WWII Navy Unifroms" in URL bar. Me being a rather large frame size, (not fat!) its been difficult to find cracker jack Navy suit, but I keep searching, one day I’ll find them, if you’re a slim guy I am sure you’ll find what you need, again check out the local Army & Navy Surplus stores, good luck!!

 

[Mr. Steve]

Ebay all the way. Also try and contact a local VFW. Sometimes there are some guys still around that still have the uniform they wore. Look for WWII Coast Guard reunions. They won't give up things they own but atleast you will know what it looks like.

 

[DocMustang]

Service dress blues might be easier

I am currently an LT in the Coast Guard and would like to build a WWII Coast Guard Officer's uniform. From the research I've done, no one out there really seems to make reproductions of Coast Guard uniforms. Lucky for me, it is just a Navy uniform with a few of the insignia switched. Does anyone know a good place to either get vintage uniforms or reproductions of Navy uniforms? I'd love to get the dress khakis, but one of the other dress uniforms would be good. Even the tropical khakis could be fun. I'm open to other ideas as well.

I've never gotten involved in recreating 40s era military uniforms, so any advice is appreciated. Most of the stuff I've found has revolved around Army uniforms.

Thanks in advance,
Mike

The Service Dress Blue navy uniform has changed little since WWII, the only major changes have been in fabric. The off the rack SDB coat and trousers is made from an abominable Polyester wool blend. It looks like plastic and drapes terribly. Fortunately for all of us there is still room in navy regulations to allow for a 100% wool SDB coat. There are several companies that still make them the way they should be.

Brooks Brothers who made the uniforms of all the best dressed officers in all services during WWII, just started making Navy uniforms again 3 years ago. They are available online through the Navy Uniform Shop online page. They are not to the best of my knowledge available in Bespoke or Made to measure so you will be forced to choose an off the rack size and have it tailored. Brooks brothers makes the best 100% cotton dress blue dress shirt and a 100% silk tie. A must for the distinguished dresser. Finishing it out is a pair of premier bates leather shoes. These are constructed of all leather with leather soles and a rubber nonskid pad on the heel. likely very close to a period pair of shoes.
A link to the Navy Uniform Shop online is here:

https://www.nexnet.nexweb.org/pls/nexauth/nexauth.wg_login_proc?p_app_id=9011

Unfortunately this is only available to members of the military If any of you are interested find someone who can log in for you. Just about any veteran can. Their are others open to the general public. So here are a few other options

Marlowe-White has been making uniforms for the Army since 1879, also several years back they began making Navy uniforms as well. Their Uniforms are relatively inexpensive and they are an excellent souce of bullion on wool insignia as well. Here is a link to their web site:

http://www.marlowwhite.com/

They also have one of the most extensive sections on military dress swords and sabres as well with many photos and comparisons. Since Wilkinson's Acton swordworks closed in 2006 (got mine just before they closed!) this is the single best source for military swords and sabers anywhere.

Lastly Johnsons on the Avenue in Annapolis, MD has their own 100% wool Navy uniforms. They also make the absolute best modern Combination Cap (more on that in a minute) They have been making Navy uniforms for Midshippman graguating from the acadamy since 1926. If anyone knows what a 1940's era uniform should look like its these guys.
Here is thier web site:

http://www.johnsonsontheavenue.com/

That should take care of the main part of the uniform

Accessories should come next

The white shirt could be any white shirt of the periodin cotton or linen with either attached or detachable collar. There should be no shoulder loops on the shirt as these were added sometime in the 70's (I think) I can document that shirts were either button sleeve or fastened with cufflinks (I have a beutiful set from my great uncle from his days in the war. I still wear them with my SDB) I believe that 1 or 2 breast pockets would be ok as the 1947 uniform regulations are silent on the topic and I have not yet been able to find photos of period officers in their shirtsleeves.

Bracers could be worn but only in white and only if the coat is not to be removed.

As to the tie, Wool would also be appropriate but I very much prefer silk as it attracts less lint.

Finally the combination cap. I have been unable to locate a souce for period accurate combination caps. While there have been almost no changes to the overall "look" of the combination cap, there are a few problems with modern caps. First the material of the white cover is polyester gaberdine, period covers would have been made from bleached cotton duck. Additionally in period there was a blue (black) cover made from the same matierial as the dress blue uniform. This was discontinued in the 60's and was even optional during the war. These can be easily made using existing polester covers as a pattern by any competent tailor. Second the material the visor is made from on modern caps for LCDR and below is corfram like plastic. Originally that would have been leather and you would have to "spit" shine the visor. My grandfather has several Army service caps from the period from his time in the war and in the army of occupation. Caps of more senior officers are probably fine. Lastly the band to which the large naval officer's insignia is screwed would have been made of mohair. Modern caps are a synthetic elastic. All in all the Johnson's cap is probably the most period accurate hat on the market.

Here is a copy of the 1947 uniform regulations it contains detailed descriptions of the uniforms you describe. A tailor should be able to knock out a Khaki dress coat. With a few photos and these descriptions. I would guess the the current issue poly cotton uniform would be a good place to start for a pattern. change the fabric to 100% cotton. Throw a black wool tie on top it off with a Johnson's cap with a period accurate cover and add coast guard insignia

Now if only they would let me wear anything other than polyester for my Service dress white...

 

[floatinjoe]

Hondo, finding vintage officer uniforms from any of the branches is always a challenge. The army is the easiest to find due to the sheer number of officers there were. Navy uniforms are easy if you are looking for enlisted uniforms. Once again, finding officer uniforms is a challenge. As DocMustang pointed out, the Service Dress Blue has been relatively unchanged over the years. Unfortunately, the uniform that yells WWII is the Service Dress Khaki which has been out of service for some time now.

DocMustang, your post was very informative. I really appreciate the links. I've toyed with doing a Brooks Brothers uniform for a couple years (pretty much since I found out they were making them). I am going to continue the search for Khakis though. Also, do you have a copy of the 1947 regs?

Thanks for the advice everyone.

Mike

 

[DocMustang]

1947 Uniform regulations

Sorry It was late last night and I forgot to paste in the link.
Here it is:
http://www.quarterdeck.org/uniforms/1947/Uniform Regs 1947.pdf

As to the Khaki Uniform I really think that the description on page 2-3 paragraph 2-10 will help you have the coat made. All of the button's described are still made in the navy versions I am sure that the cost guard buttons are as well. A good place to start would be the tennant suit from magnoli in 100% cotton, Add a second patch pocket at the breast, Patch pockets at the hips, raise the buttons about 1.5"-2" compress the button spacing to get the gore right and continue the belt around to the front add the shoulder "belt-loops" and there you go.

From the description it sounds as if the hard shoulder boards were attached in a similar manner in which they are today, the familiar two "belt loops" on the shoulder. Shoulder boards may be harder to find in authentic styling. I seem to remember that the coast guard now uses a more midnight blue color for their boards rather than black but that could just be the soft shoulder marks worn on their working uniforms.

Again from the descriptions of the shirt and trousers they should be relatively easy to find. The phrase prevailing tailoring practice would mean any type of cut appropriate to the period in a period fabric would be appropriate. I expect the phrase plain design means "flat front" I would do a search of WWII photos to make sure. One of my favorite movies for WWII Uniforms is "The Caine Mutiny", the Caine's missions make the full run from Blues to White. and you can get a good look at each type of uniform. Someone may be able to document a pleated front Khaki pant being used as uniform but they are against regulations now.

Incidently My own set of Dress Blues are Brooks Brothers and they are very nice. Much nicer than the off the rack variety Goes well with my Vintage navy cufflinks, and real silver dolphins (qualified in '96) and if anyone is interested in seeing one of the finest Naval Officer's swords let me know and I will try and post pics. If I could only justify the expense for the Johnson's cover...

 

[Story]

If this fellow Wombacher's contact information (bottom of link) is still valid, he might be able to help you out.

http://www.uscg.mil/RESERVE/magazine/mag1999/aug1999/bch.htm

 

[Hondo]

Thanks to all for the info, Naval Officer's uniforms by Brooks Brothers is great but I'll stick with seamens Crackerjack, hope I find it, just to honor my Dad,
Wildroot and a few others put together a great looking outfit, its kind of sad the Navy did away with 'bell bottoms" or the whole crackjack uniforms, they were and are cool, Thanks again for the links.

 

[Fletch]

eBay...eBay eBay eBay

I scored myself a few nice officers' uniforms here, including Navy dress khakis and aviation greens (I have everything but the cap covers for both). If I'd been willing to spend more $ about 3 years ago I'd've been able to get a whole named set from a WW2 Navy dentist!

I have blues, but would be reluctant to wear them traveling to an event because they're still a regulation uniform. The last thing I would want is to offend those who serve or did.

The av greens are still worn, but only by chiefs in training billets. Apparently it's become a kind of full-body campaign hat.

 

[DocMustang]

Thanks to all for the info, Naval Officer's uniforms by Brooks Brothers is great but I'll stick with seamens Crackerjack, hope I find it, just to honor my Dad,
Wildroot and a few others put together a great looking outfit, its kind of sad the Navy did away with 'bell bottoms" or the whole crackjack uniforms, they were and are cool, Thanks again for the links.

Cracker Jack Style uniforms were not quite done away with. The Navy E1-E6 uniform is still the Crackerjack style. The current fabric Is a Poly wool blend but the overall cut is the same and could be readily used as a pattern once an appropriate navy blue wool could be found. Piping would definately take some skill to apply and the machine stitched stars could be obtained in a commercial embroidery shop. Not cheap to have them done but "tailor made blues" never were. While you are at the embroidery shop look into getting "liberty sleeves" made. The trousers for blues are the 13 button high tie back waist straight leg bell bottom trousers that have been worn since about the eary 20th century when they added four buttons going from 9 to the present 13. Obtaining authentic rating badges may be difficult as many of the special marks have changed. Additional research would need to be done to seperate "right arm rates" from "left arm rates"

My great aunt was a WAVES dispersing officer and I have access to her 1941 Blue Jackets Manual this could help with descriptions of 40s rating marks

Sadly the white crackerjacks have truly gone by the board having been replaced by a uniform that most closely resembles "undress white" again in the same horrible 100% polyester twil "CNT" God awful. Should be cotton duck with a blue collar and white piping...

I wore both officer and enlisted uniforms hence the handle DocMustang

 

[Story]

Just stumbled across this

http://www.uscg.mil/History/Beach_Patrol_Photo_Index.html
Floatin' Joe, where are you?

 

[Fletch]

While there have been almost no changes to the overall "look" of the combination cap, there are a few problems with modern caps. First the material of the white cover is polyester gaberdine, period covers would have been made from bleached cotton duck. Additionally in period there was a blue (black) cover made from the same matierial as the dress blue uniform. This was discontinued in the 60's and was even optional during the war.

As with most "optional" uniform items, the "option" was not the wearer's but his CO's. The blue cover was discouraged in Pacific commands, even those outside the tropics. My great-uncle, a communications officer in Alaska, could wear a blue cap, but those stationed in California generally could not.

It's something of an open secret that service caps have gotten taller, stiffer, and straighter since WW2. No doubt a matter of getting rid of that sloppy 40s citizen-draftee look and standing up to the huge-hatted Commie bloc.

 

[floatinjoe]

http://www.uscg.mil/History/Beach_Patrol_Photo_Index.html
Floatin' Joe, where are you?

Thanks for the link... I've seen that before. As for where I've been, let's just say that the Coast Guard has been keeping me really busy. Hopefully I'll be able to rejoin the forum soon.

Mike

 

[ltedge]

AV Greens

The av greens are still worn, but only by chiefs in training billets. Apparently it's become a kind of full-body campaign hat.

Av Greens can be worn by any Chief or Officer that is in flying status. They're working uniforms so can only be worn in limited environments, but as an aviator serving on a carrier, I wear them occasionally in place of my working khaki. Sadly, they're slated to be cut next year.