CNN Opinion: Stop hating on the millenials

[AmateisGal]

Jesus advocated taking care of each other, but He was not okay with the government stealing from person to give to another. There is a big difference between unable to make it and trying, and plain refusing to try and expect others to provide for you.
"For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat." 2 Thess 3:10

THIS.

I really hate it when people drag Jesus into politics and try to label him as being either on the right or the left. Just...don't.

"And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." - Mark 12:17

 

[Baron Kurtz]

There is no doubt that Generation Y/Millenials, especially those born around the late 80s-early 90s - so entering the job market just as the crash hit, have been dealt a bum hand. This is especially true for those in cities, or areas without the manufacturing or factory-type capacity to provide jobs for relatively unskilled labour. Early millenials and late Xers (i.e. my age group - 30-40) had a good hand in the west. Everything was booming in the late 90s. If you had a college degree and couldn't get a job/grad school/whatever you wanted, it was a rare case.

I will say to those Millenials trying to get on the job ladder/scam. It's not so easy being at the mid level right now, either. If you're applying for jobs, there's not only all your peers going for the same (scarce) jobs, there's all the folks older than you who also lost their jobs in the crash. It's not really easy for anyone these days, but it'll tick up. In America before anywhere else. Or, if you have skills, look abroad. China and the far east are gobbling up all the skilled/educated talent they can give visas for. Singapore, Australia, malaysia even. The salaries aren't too bad in most places and astonishingly good in Singapore. Don't be scareed to move around the world a bit to start/further a career.

As an example, for every single assistant professor job I apply for, there are between 300-700 applicants. We are mostly PhDs with significant post-PhD research experience (and ABDs for some positions, but mostly not). This is a tough market!

 

[AmateisGal]

Here's my one piece of advice to millennials: show up to work and work hard. That sounds like common sense, but after talking to employers, I'm coming to realize it's really not anymore.

My brother can't find an employee who actually wants to work hard AND go to work. He's went through scores of people. People will work for a few days, then quit, or they will be consistently late and he can't rely on them. One of my friends hired someone to work part-time at her business and the gal showed up for a few days, then just...didn't. She didn't call to say she was quitting or anything. It's just totally bizarre to me.

 

[Gingerella72]

There is another generation that came between, and we're called generation X. But we'd rather the critics leave us alone, your attentions don't seem very nice. We've got our own bad stereotypical traits to deal with and like all generations they are pretty nasty sounding. So we're kind of glad you forgot about us. Carry on.

Yes, we Gen-Xers have somehow fallen through the cracks. Boomers are working long past retirement not out of desire but of necessity, and when they finally do retire the Gen Xers will be too old to fill their places (too old according to the employers, that is). So hang in there millennials, your time is coming.

 

[Gingerella72]

There is no doubt that Generation Y/Millenials, especially those born around the late 80s-early 90s - so entering the job market just as the crash hit, have been dealt a bum hand. This is especially true for those in cities, or areas without the manufacturing or factory-type capacity to provide jobs for relatively unskilled labour. Early millenials and late Xers (i.e. my age group - 30-40) had a good hand in the west. Everything was booming in the late 90s. If you had a college degree and couldn't get a job/grad school/whatever you wanted, it was a rare case.

I will say to those Millenials trying to get on the job ladder/scam. It's not so easy being at the mid level right now, either. If you're applying for jobs, there's not only all your peers going for the same (scarce) jobs, there's all the folks older than you who also lost their jobs in the crash. It's not really easy for anyone these days, but it'll tick up. In America before anywhere else. Or, if you have skills, look abroad. China and the far east are gobbling up all the skilled/educated talent they can give visas for. Singapore, Australia, malaysia even. The salaries aren't too bad in most places and astonishingly good in Singapore. Don't be scareed to move around the world a bit to start/further a career.

As an example, for every single assistant professor job I apply for, there are between 300-700 applicants. We are mostly PhDs with significant post-PhD research experience (and ABDs for some positions, but mostly not). This is a tough market!

When my husband went back to school in 2006 to finish his degree his goal was to get a masters and work at a community college. You used to be able to do that, with "only" a masters. Not anymore, most now require a full PhD. It's crazy. He adjuncted for a few semesters but had to stop because we couldn't afford for him to continue making poverty wages. Which is kind of funny because he's still making poverty wages working at a grocery store, but at least there he gets an annual "cost of living" raise (last year it was a whopping 35 cents per hour). And it gets even funnier when you consider that we still have to shop at Walmart because we can't afford to buy groceries at the store he works at. If I didn't have my job (at a whopping $13/hr, which is considered a well paying job in these parts) with health insurance we'd be screwed. And even with health insurance, if one of us got catastrophically sick or injured, we'd still be screwed because we wouldn't be able to pay the out of pocket expense before the deductible is met, OR the 30% that insurance doesn't cover even after the deductible. We don't have cell phones because no plan exists that beats the cost of our landline. We don't have cable TV (nor a flat screen TV either). Our cars are 10+ years old. We do have (luxurious!) a computer (8 years old) and internet, which is our "big" extravagance. Aside from heat, and A/C, of course. Yep, we're living the high life, having A/C in 100 degree humid weather. Lobsters all around, the treat is on us!

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Yes, the catastrophe has hit the higher education sector. The spectacular rise in the number of newly minted science and engineering PhDs through the late 80s, 90s and 2000s was offset by a booming tech industry that sucked up all the folks who didn't want to take the academic route for whatever reason. Now, with the economy in the toilet, with fewer jobs for the PhDs, they "settle" for the relatively low wages of a college professor.

At the start of that particular ladder, we saw an astonishing increase in the number of applicants for our PhD programs in London in 2008. All those undergrads with first class degrees who would've gone off to start their nervous breakdowns and burgeoning alcoholism in the financial sector suddenly found that those chaps weren't hiring. Result: if you haven't got a first class degree, you might as well not apply to a top research university for a place on a PhD program. Your application is typically triaged before even reading the personal statements. This never used to be the case.

 

[Gingerella72]

And even getting a PhD is no guarantee for a job, either, anymore.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

absolutely not!

 

[LizzieMaine]

Jesus advocated taking care of each other, but He was not okay with the government stealing from person to give to another. There is a big difference between unable to make it and trying, and plain refusing to try and expect others to provide for you.
"For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat." 2 Thess 3:10

Well, not to pick nits, but that's a quote from Paul, applying to organizational aspects of the congregation. Not quite the same context as Jesus giving a public sermon, or even Jesus telling the Pharisees to "render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's." But I digress. Everyone in this thread is welcome to worship whatever god they choose. I'm comfortable following mine.

 

[casechopper]

Hi Gingerella,
If you have high speed internet you can get free phone service for now through google voice. I use one of these at home in place of a land line and it costs nothing per month.

I don't do cable tv either and I'm looking to cut our cell phone bills by switching to a pay as you go plan and only using cell's for emergencies. At least in Nebraska you're cost of living isn't too bad. I grew up there and the cost of living differential coming here to NJ is a bit extreme.

We don't have cell phones because no plan exists that beats the cost of our landline. We don't have cable TV (nor a flat screen TV either). Our cars are 10+ years old. We do have (luxurious!) a computer (8 years old) and internet, which is our "big" extravagance. Aside from heat, and A/C, of course. Yep, we're living the high life, having A/C in 100 degree humid weather. Lobsters all around, the treat is on us!

 

[LizzieMaine]

I do love how someone would be "labelled" a Marxist. It's not something to be ashamed of. It's as solid an ideology as any with which to approach existence. what would we have instead? Bloody John Stuart Mill?! and utilitarianism to the n'th degree? Sink or swim, buddy, whaddaya mean i only need to grab your arm to help you float - you do it on your own, or not at all, lazy freeloader …

I couldn't care less if people call me a Marxist or whatever. I think Marx made a lot of sense. And so did the Ritz Brothers and Wheeler and Woolsey.

 

[Gingerella72]

Hi Gingerella,
If you have high speed internet you can get free phone service for now through google voice. I use one of these at home in place of a land line and it costs nothing per month.

I don't do cable tv either and I'm looking to cut our cell phone bills by switching to a pay as you go plan and only using cell's for emergencies. At least in Nebraska you're cost of living isn't too bad. I grew up there and the cost of living differential coming here to NJ is a bit extreme.

I've always been wary of internet phone service, but it's something to consider perhaps.

Yes, I know we are very fortunate to live where we do. When I read about the cost of living in other states, especially on either coast, my eyes pop out of my head.

 

[HudsonHawk]

Yes, we Gen-Xers have somehow fallen through the cracks. Boomers are working long past retirement not out of desire but of necessity, and when they finally do retire the Gen Xers will be too old to fill their places (too old according to the employers, that is). So hang in there millennials, your time is coming.

This phenomenon is particularly pronounced in certain industries, such as mine; oil. Over 50% of our industry is 55-years old or older, and another 30% are under 30. That leaves a pretty small percentage to fill in the rest. With half the industry retiring in the next 5-7 years, there is a real sense of urgency to find competent people, not only at the technical level but at the management level as well. Most companies have rigorous programs in place to take recent grads and give them a crash course in everything. This includes identifying those 20-somethings and grooming them for positions of leadership long before they would historically had those opportunities. Of course this stems from the period of about 1983-2000 where the industry just didn't hire anyone. Now there's a huge gap of missing demographics. We refer to this as the upcoming "crew change".

As a fellow Gen Xer, I may be in the right place or the wrong place. Time will tell.

 

[Son_of_Atropos]

Obviously.



I've got a weird feeling that the people who say "why would anyone work if we had a satey net? And why should we have a safety net?"I are the ones who:
1. Are deep down lazy and would prefer not to work if they didn't have to.
2: Would manipulate the system so they wouldn't have to work.
3. Don't believe in charity and don't give anything (time, money) to charity.
4. Are greedy as heck.

Otherwise they wouln't come to the conclusion that "everyone" is this way.

This argument is intellectually dishonest and based solely on your feelings. No one said that there should not be any safety net. Knock it off.

 

[vintageTink]

Well, not to pick nits, but that's a quote from Paul, applying to organizational aspects of the congregation. Not quite the same context as Jesus giving a public sermon, or even Jesus telling the Pharisees to "render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's." But I digress. Everyone in this thread is welcome to worship whatever god they choose. I'm comfortable following mine.

In context, Lizzie. No organizational aspects, just a warning against idleness. Seems pretty straightforward to me. And yes, it is Paul.

6 In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers and sisters, to keep away from every believer who is idle and disruptive and does not live according to the teaching[a] you received from us. 7 For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example. We were not idle when we were with you, 8 nor did we eat anyone’s food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you. 9 We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to offer ourselves as a model for you to imitate. 10 For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.”

11 We hear that some among you are idle and disruptive. They are not busy; they are busybodies. 12 Such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down and earn the food they eat. 13 And as for you, brothers and sisters, never tire of doing what is good.

14 Take special note of anyone who does not obey our instruction in this letter. Do not associate with them, in order that they may feel ashamed. 15 Yet do not regard them as an enemy, but warn them as you would a fellow believer.

I have no problems with needing help. There are those who can't work or who are working but don't make enough. Those people should be helped if possible.
But those people, like my 'parents', who refuse to work and live off the sweat of others, are who I have a problem with.
If the state takes from others to pay for you, what gives you an incentive to work? Nothing.

Do millennials have it a bit rougher? Yes, they very well might. But a lot of people seem to have an entitlement mentality nowadays.
Incomes are lower, costs are higher...we struggle. But I don't expect my neighbors to feed me.

And a computer and Internet are not luxuries at my house. They are necessary: if I did not have them I would lose my job.

 

[LizzieMaine]

In context, Lizzie. No organizational aspects, just a warning against idleness. Seems pretty straightforward to me. And yes, it is Paul.

6 In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers and sisters, to keep away from every believer who is idle and disruptive and does not live according to the teaching[a] you received from us. 7 For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example. We were not idle when we were with you, 8 nor did we eat anyone’s food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you. 9 We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to offer ourselves as a model for you to imitate. 10 For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.”

11 We hear that some among you are idle and disruptive. They are not busy; they are busybodies. 12 Such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down and earn the food they eat. 13 And as for you, brothers and sisters, never tire of doing what is good.

14 Take special note of anyone who does not obey our instruction in this letter. Do not associate with them, in order that they may feel ashamed. 15 Yet do not regard them as an enemy, but warn them as you would a fellow believer.

Again, that sounds pretty clearly to me like Paul is talking to the congregation, specifying certain rules of order among the believers of his day. In Acts 2:44, Luke tells us that the members of the early congregation held all things in common -- the idea of private property was not a relevant principle to them. They contributed their wealth to the common good and drew from it as needed for their support. Paul was simply telling the Thessalonians that if people weren't doing their part for the well-being of the congregation, if they weren't doing what they needed to be doing to support its activity, then they weren't entitled to share from that common fund.

That's all it says. It's not a biblical injunction against the redistribution of wealth by any means, and it doesn't contradict anything Jesus said when he told the rich young man to go and sell all he had and give it to the poor, or when he said "store up not for yourselves treasures on earth." It's simply a matter of enforcing congregational discipline.

Interestingly, Lenin believed this text from Thessalonians was an essential principle of socialism. When all things were held in common and the workers controlled the means of production, society would operate on the principle that you had to contribute to society thru your work in order to receive its benefits.

I think one of the most instructive things one can do is sit down with a concordance some time and look up every appearance of the words "rich," "poor," and "wealth" in the New Testament. It's pretty illuminating, and cuts thru a lot of the politicization that the Bible has had wrapped around it over the past forty years or so.

 

[Otis]

VintageTink, And elsewhere the requirements for receiving church welfare payments were laid out, namely, a widow, aged 60 or more. In other words, someone with literally no other economic options except destitution. Younger women were instructed to marry and escape poverty that way.

Lizzie's contention that Jesus urged redistribution of confiscated tax money to and for the benefit of the pagan society-at-large while having stringent eligibility requirements for church members is logically preposterous.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Lizzie's contention that Jesus urged redistribution of confiscated tax money to and for the benefit of the pagan society-at-large while having stringent eligibility requirements for church members is logically preposterous.

"Logically preposterous." Harumph. Who are you now, Lionel Barrymore?

You know very well I never said any such thing. Jesus stated a principle in the Sermon on the Mount that his followers should strive for. Paul set the rules for the congregation of his day. If you can't tell the difference, I'm afraid I can't help you.

 

[Hemingway Jones]

Sorry, I hate to close a thread, but I just can't bear to read this anymore, and because I can!

Surely there are other more pertinent topics to discuss here.