Civil War Forage Caps: A Review of Several Modern Sutlers

[highway66blues]

Third Maine ? That's US Volunteers.
A Great bunch of folks.

I was with the 63rd Pennsylvania Volunteer Infantry, a ways back when the USV was only 2 Battallions.
I think I can remember a time back when the 3rd & the 63rd were in the same Battallion.
My,My...it has changed.
Col. Scot Buffington commands 3rd Reg't now. He was (and still remains) one of my best friends, along with a bunch of the boys in the 63rd.
Sounds like you had a BLAST at Bull Run. We never got a chance to get our hands on any original 63rd uniforms or equiptments, but do know who has some....NEAT Stuff.
Last anniversary events I did were the 135th (long time ago now)...man, they were a trip.

 

[njsekela]

I am more than flummoxed that something like this could actually be written. My cap pattern was produced by Paul Ruehs, and was taken from a disassembled original in the 1960's. I cannot understand how one can improve upon that, let alone find fault.

Let me also set the record straight regarding Starbuck caps. He got the patterns for his Confederate Caps from Paul Ruehs, which was achieved through my intervention. I am also the one who produced the artwork for the lining of the Amzi Williamson forage cap, and the Beauregard New Orleans label. I am not sure if Starbuck is still offering Federal Forage Caps, but I produced the body shells of his caps; and Starbuck merely added the visor and sweatband so that he could technically say that they were his caps. I always laughed to myself when people say that they liked his caps better.

 

[Guttersnipe]

I am more than flummoxed that something like this could actually be written. My cap pattern was produced by Paul Ruehs, and was taken from a disassembled original in the 1960's. I cannot understand how one can improve upon that, let alone find fault.

Let me also set the record straight regarding Starbuck caps. He got the patterns for his Confederate Caps from Paul Ruehs, which was achieved through my intervention. I am also the one who produced the artwork for the lining of the Amzi Williamson forage cap, and the Beauregard New Orleans label. I am not sure if Starbuck is still offering Federal Forage Caps, but I produced the body shells of his caps; and Starbuck merely added the visor and sweatband so that he could technically say that they were his caps. I always laughed to myself when people say that they liked his caps better.

Mr. Sekela,

I personally think your caps are awesome in terms of quality, authenticity, and style. I bought one of your private purchase caps years ago for my "low key officer on campaign" impression.

 

[WCC1912]

Nick Sekela is the unsung hero of 19th century replicas. His attention to detail is obsessive and his execution is flawless. If you find fault with his efforts, then you are not at all familiar with the genuine artifacts.

 

[Doc Glockster]

I stand by what I wrote.

As I stated in my first post, I am more concerned with looks and comfort than 100% reenactor authenticity so YMMV.

 

[njsekela]

I stand by what I wrote.

As I stated in my first post, I am more concerned with looks and comfort than 100% reenactor authenticity so YMMV.

Well, that should have been codified, because that is a completely different analysis. If you are basing endorsements on what you expect from a modern day hat, then that is something entirely different. Mine are reproductions of what was produced in the 1860's, and it is not meant to be compared to modern fits and aesthetics.

Your posting read more like a review on historical accuracy.

 

[Doc Glockster]

Well, that should have been codified, because that is a completely different analysis. If you are basing endorsements on what you expect from a modern day hat, then that is something entirely different. Mine are reproductions of what was produced in the 1860's, and it is not meant to be compared to modern fits and aesthetics.

Your posting read more like a review on historical accuracy.

Reread my first post. I made it clear that I wear these as a novelty and I'm more concerned with looks.

I am NOT a reenactor and I don't purchase this type of item with any more than a "correct look" in mind as far as authenticity.

In fact, I definitely do NOT like the fact that the dyes from Dirty Billy's sweatbands "bleed" onto my forehead, nor do I appreciate the fact that their visors' paint cracks "authentically."

So, in some ways I am AGAINST 100% authenticity, and I thought I made that clear in my first post.

I am amazed at how the reenactor community will go bat shit crazy over some minor "farby" detail and that's why I don't indulge in that hobby.

Give me a hat that fits and looks right and I could care less about the fact that it might not be 100% made like they did in 1863.

The one exception might be that I thought Starbuck's Amzi Williamson cap's tendency to fade is a cool novelty, and that's why I ordered that one.

 

[WCC1912]

Reread my first post. I made it clear that I wear these as a novelty and I'm more concerned with looks.


In fact, I definitely do NOT like the fact that the dyes from Dirty Billy's sweatbands "bleed" onto my forehead, nor do I appreciate the fact that their visors' paint cracks "authentically."

So, in some ways I am AGAINST 100% authenticity, and I thought I made that clear in my first post.

Ummm... "bleeding" sweatbands are an indication of an incorrect, non-period detail. The material specified for sweatbands was usually "roan" leather i.e. sheepskin. Dye bleeding from any sweatband, regardless of headgear type, is an indication that the manufacturer is not on his a-game.

 

[Guttersnipe]

Ummm... "bleeding" sweatbands are an indication of an incorrect, non-period detail. The material specified for sweatbands was usually "roan" leather i.e. sheepskin. Dye bleeding from any sweatband, regardless of headgear type, is an indication that the manufacturer is not on his a-game.

Out of curiosity, what is your basis for making the statement that dye migration from a sweatband is an indication of an incorrect, non-period detail? Are you basing this on general knowledge of hat making techniques or a specific knowledge of 19th century American military manufacturing methods?

It's also worth pointing since he's not a regular contributor to this forum that NJSekela is (I assume) Nick J. Sekela, the manufacturer of some of the best reproduction Civil War items available for general purchase.

 

[Doc Glockster]

Just for the record, Fran Wickham told me that the "cracking" of the paint on the visors is an authentic detail. I did not discover the problem of sweatband dyes bleeding onto my forehead until much later when the weather turned warmer.

 

[Doc Glockster]

I'm looking for a source for Indian Wars kepis. The main characteristic of an Indian Wars kepi is that it tends to have a short crown. This causes the hat ride high on the head, giving the wearer the impression that it's going to slide off.

I definitely do NOT like the ones made by Quartermaster Shop. If their website photo is any indication, they are nowhere near authentic.

I also didn't care for one made by Dirty Billy's: I think the crown was still too tall for Indian Wars. It would have been good for Civil War.

I ran across a new sutler:

http://www.quartermasterdepot.com/187292-kepi-p-54.html?zenid=e160b5d375b052fd323d158bbc8a5d8a

I don't know anything about them. The photo makes it look like this cap's crown is too tall for Indian Wars as well.

Anyway, I'd love to have a source for a good Indian Wars kepi.

 

[1961MJS]

Hi

I'm using this sight to pick out a few things, but haven't actually bought anything much yet:

http://talbotsfineaccessories.com/GAF/Uniform/GAF%20US%20Army%20Uniforms.html

Both N. J. Sekela and Quartermaster Depot are mentioned. Quartermaster Shop has a good reputation also. I own a $29.00 Union Kept from Blockade Runner and it's worth what I paid for it. I'm currently more of a shooter than I am a reenactor.

Hope this helps.

 

[Jimmy Joe]

Nick, You make cap bodies for me for only a couple of years, mainly for Joe Hofmann. Only a couple of years out of 30+ years.

 

[mrwilmoth]

Nice caps, those are some awesome replicas, now I have to have one!

 

[Doc Glockster]

I'm going to have to go back on my review of Superior Cap Company a little bit. I previously had stated that their quality was okay, but the Confederate kepi I got should have been more in the $40-50 price range, not the $95-100 they charge.

Recently, I began to get disgusted with one of my Dirty Billy's caps because the paint on the visor cracks and starts flaking even when the cap is close to brand new. If I'd wanted a cap that "ages" itself that quickly I'd have requested that. Fran Wickham claims that cracking and flaking is "normal". Well, what's "normal" to me is to have a cap that the paint doesn't start flaking that quickly.

So I noticed on eBay that Superior Cap Company has started offereing Federal caps in addition to their Confederate caps. (They may have been doing this all along, but I don't surf eBay every day and didn't notice).

I decided to take a chance on a Type II forage cap made by them. The price was $100 plus shipping.

I have to say I think the quality is roughly equivalent to a Dirty Billy's forage cap. There are minimal differences between the two. On the Superior Cap bummer the back of the chin strap is not finished in that patent leather look like on the Billy's cap. The chin strap on the Superior cap is "sewn on" as opposed to removable on the Dirty Billy's cap.

In addition, the point where the corners of the visor attach to the hat looks more like the CSA caps I've seen: with threads repeatedly wrapped around the corner to make the joint tight. Dirty Billy's conceals where the corners of the visor attach.

One big thing: even with some generous flexing, I could not get the paint on the Superior Cap bummer to crack or flake.

All other things being roughly equal, for this reason alone I think I'm starting to prefer the Superior Cap Company forage cap to the Dirty Billy's. I think my earlier Confederate cap that I thought wasn't up to hundred-dollar quality may have been more due to an "authenticity" issue rather than a quality issue. CSA caps are often deliberately made to look cruder than Federal caps, and I think that led me to think the quality wasn't there.

Superior Cap Company's forage cap appears to be at least the equal of Dirty Billy's, with only minor differences.

As a final test, I wet the material around the crown disc just slightly to get the crown disc to drape over my forehead like I like it. The hat responded just like a Dirty Billy's hat and the forage cap now has the look I want.

Many, many forage caps I've owned in the past do not lend themselves to this as well, so the "drape" test was kind of my final confirmation that Superior Cap Company's forage caps are good to go.

 

[Doc Glockster]

Lest I forget: several months ago I ordered an Indian Wars kepi from Quartermaster Shop.

Worst piece of junk I ever put on my head. The crown disc was flimsy and insubstantial.

I knew that IW caps tend to ride high on the head, giving you the sensation that the cap will fall off, but the one from QM fit so badly that I just couldn't get it to stay on my head AT ALL.

I find it interesting that included with the cap was a set of "instructions" warning you that because it's an Indian Wars kepi that it won't fit.

Jeez.

 

[F. J.]

N. J. Sekela . . .

I have one of Mr. Sekela's reproduction L. J. & I. Phillips Contract Pattern 1858 U. S. Army Forage Caps in Army size 6 (7⅜). It is about as authentic as you can get. If you are wanting to reenact and trying to authentically recreate history, I would recommend a Sekela cap. If it's just for a costume, then I don't suppose it matters.

(Note: the "Type I" and "Type II" designations did not exist in the period; it was invented by later collectors and reenactors to distinguish between the two predominant styles in use. The "Type I" has a smaller disc and more crescent-shaped visor while the "Type II" has a larger disc and flatter visor. Mine is of the latter variety.)

Also, in regard to sizing, during the war, the Army issued clothing in two sizes: too big and too little. Whatever they issued is what you wore unless you could find someone to trade with, so it is quite authentic for clothing to not fit exactly right.

 

[Doc Glockster]

Also, in regard to sizing, during the war, the Army issued clothing in two sizes: too big and too little. Whatever they issued is what you wore unless you could find someone to trade with, so it is quite authentic for clothing to not fit exactly right.

And that is something I cannot live with when spending $100 plus for a modern reproduction. If it doesn't fit it's not going to be in my collection.

I have one of Mr. Sekela's reproduction L. J. & I. Phillips Contract Pattern 1858 U. S. Army Forage Caps in Army size 6 (7⅜). It is about as authentic as you can get. If you are wanting to reenact and trying to authentically recreate history, I would recommend a Sekela cap. If it's just for a costume, then I don't suppose it matters.

Referring back to your other comment, I've already stated that I wondered if Sekela sent me the right size. It's entirely possible that his caps fall into the "too big or too small" category, and if that level of authenticity is important to you, then by all means buy a Sekela cap. His caps are attractive and well-made; they just don't suit my criteria for a modern forage cap reproduction. Dirty Billy's and Superior Cap company do.

If I were rich I might invest in another Sekela cap just to give him the benefit of the doubt based on the positive comments here. I am assuming that my cap may have been sized wrong. Whether it's that or the authentic "too large or too small" standard, I just don't know.

What I do know is that all of my Dirty Billy's caps have fit me perfectly, and my Superior Cap Co forage cap fits well too.

If I buy another cap (doubtful since I have several now), it will probably be another Superior Cap Co offering. The lack of immediate cracking to the visor make them edge out Dirty Billy's as far as what I want.

 

[Doc Glockster]

Here's an interesting thread from a reenactors' forum regarding Superior Cap Company. Supposedly they will only be making caps through the sesquicentennial cycle (150 years....making 2015 their swan song).

The thread is old so I don't know how much of that speculation holds water, but the other posts are interesting with regards to their hat quality:
http://www.cwreenactors.com/forum/showthread.php?21965-Superior-Cap-Company

 

[Redshoes51]

"Caps and Kepis"

There is a fellow up in Delaware that makes some really nices caps and kepis...

I am going to post his facebook link....https://www.facebook.com/groups/465700263454026/

I have several of his forage caps and kepis...

You might give him a look...

~shoes~