Christmas without Christ? Huh?

[jamespowers]

I remember seeing a trailer for a movie and it read; "Coming Holiday 2002" Which holiday???????

Kwanzaa? [huh]

 

[Roger]

Kwanzaa? [huh]

Let's not get me started on that.:rage:

 

[scotrace]

Against my better judgement...

 

[scottyrocks]

Political correctness run amok. It has lots of good ideas to live by, but a holiday during the Christmas season? Please.

 

[randooch]

Without reading 24 pages of remarks . . .

Has anyone mentioned Religion's debt to ancient seasonal observances of solstices?

 

[HodgePodge]

It used to be the birthday of the man who saved our necks. Now it stands for Santa Clause and we spell it with an "X". - Larry Norman

Mr. Norman doesn't know his butt from a hole in the ground. The X comes from a shorter way of writing "christmas" in Greek.

Without reading 24 pages of remarks . . .

Has anyone mentioned Religion's debt to ancient seasonal observances of solstices?

The ancient seasonal observances have been mentioned. As for the second part of that statement, well, better not go there.

 

[Benny Holiday]

Against my better judgement...

You've got no one to blame but yourself ol' buddy . . .

 

[PrettySquareGal]

I see I commented in 2006 but want to add:

[video]http://www.hulu.com/watch/4732/saturday-night-live-hanukkah-harry[/video]

Lots of non-Christians love the spirit of Christmas, too.

Also, we have many popular classic Christmas songs written by Jewish people:

http://www.interfaithfamily.com/art...ture/The_Jews_Who_Wrote_Christmas_Songs.shtml

 

[C-dot]

Lots of non-Christians love the spirit of Christmas, too.

Even non-religious folks - I know I do!

 

[vitanola]

Going back to Mr. Chevalier's original post regarding the lack of religious symbolism on modern Christmas cards, I must suggest that this is nothing new. Some years ago I came across several scrap books which had been filled with greeting cards (generally post cards) between around 1905 and 1920. Of one-hundred-sixty three Christmas oriented cards only seven had any overtly Christian symbolism, and these pictured neither the Child nor the Holy Family, just the Guiding Star, or in one case the Wise Men. The most common format was the salutation "Season's Greetings" accompnied by a sprig of holly or fir. Santa Claus rarely appeared on these cards, though children, mischevious or cute, waiting for Santa were a common theme, as were Christmas trees, Yule Logs and carolers. Although one might suspect a general reticence regarding the commercial display of religious symbolism, the presence in this collection of seventy-nine Easter cards, every one of which included Christian iconography would suggest otherwise.

The Christmas and holiday cards of this period appear to have been overwhelmingly secular, far more so than those found today in our large stores. I suggest that this had a good deal to do with the tenuous position of Christmas as a religious holiday in Protestant America at that date. Remeber that the so-called "War on Christmas" was enthusiastically fought by our Puritan forbearers, who not only proscribed this celebration, but criminalised it, as to them it represented the despised "Popish Apostacy" against which they struggled. The holiday came to prominence in our country after the publication of the preeminently secular "A Christmas Carol". Before this Christmas celebrations were generally confined to Germanic immigrant communities. Whilst there are ignorant or malevolent Yahoos out in the land who believe that they have much to gain politically by promoting the canard that we have fallen away from a robust public celebration of the religious aspects of this holiday, this is only true over the short term. Public decorations and celebrations which predate the 1950's were quite invariably secular. Christmas in the modern sense entered the American calendar as a secular celebration, it seems, and has gradually acquired more and more religious significance.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Well said. The "traditional Christmas celebration" in America owes, and has always owed, far, far more to Charles Dickens than it does to Jesus Christ.

 

[Gene]

Public decorations and celebrations which predate the 1950's were quite invariably secular. Christmas in the modern sense entered the American calendar as a secular celebration, it seems, and has gradually acquired more and more religious significance.

:eusa_clap Bravo, and well said.

 

[Dan Rodemsky]

First, I am somewhat surprised at seeing an overtly religious thread here. I went back to the beginning. I think the second post said it best. Really, the reason for the season is whatever you make of it. The earliest winter celebrations were simply that our ancestors noticed that the days were no longer shrinking. Anything after that, be it Xmas or Kwanzaa is riding on the coattails of our ancestors. No group today can lay claim to the "real" reason. Styles change, mystical beliefs change. This is just another change. I think the best way to react to such change is to take the parts that work for you and dump the rest. Celebrate it all or none of it. Personally, I like blinking lights on my house and presents under a tree. And I like fruitcake!

 

[Blackthorn]

Against my better judgement...

A slow day on the Lounge? :eeek:

 

[kamikat]

I've never been offended by the use of "Happy Holidays" because Christmas isn't the only one we celebrate. Let's not forget that New Year's Eve is a week after Christmas and is traditionally the biggest party holiday of the year.

 

[ButteMT61]

First, I am somewhat surprised at seeing an overtly religious thread here. I went back to the beginning. I think the second post said it best. Really, the reason for the season is whatever you make of it. The earliest winter celebrations were simply that our ancestors noticed that the days were no longer shrinking. Anything after that, be it Xmas or Kwanzaa is riding on the coattails of our ancestors. No group today can lay claim to the "real" reason. Styles change, mystical beliefs change. This is just another change. I think the best way to react to such change is to take the parts that work for you and dump the rest. Celebrate it all or none of it. Personally, I like blinking lights on my house and presents under a tree. And I like fruitcake!

I don't expect any store to represent any values. They're there to make money - even little local shops. So no shock to me.
As far as Christmas, it's a celebration of spirit and closure of another year. A time to be with family, and yes, even indulge in shopping and decorating and taking a rest.
I just spent time in some of the most amazing cathedrals in the world in the UK and France. I'm agnostic, so it's not a religious thing for me. But I was indeed moved inside of them. I'm moved at Christmas time too. I love the cheesy Frosty, etc. on TV. I love the music, the lights, the "feeling".
OTOH, don't try to demonize it (the public) because it's tied to religion. Enjoy it, ignore it, whatever you like, but don't ruin mine - whatever it is

 

[ButteMT61]

I've never been offended by the use of "Happy Holidays" because Christmas isn't the only one we celebrate. Let's not forget that New Year's Eve is a week after Christmas and is traditionally the biggest party holiday of the year.

I'm not offended by it either - except that I think it is mostly intended (in cali?) to give notice that "I don't believe so don't push this on me" crowd. Like people that proclaim "I don't watch TV". Bah humbug. :eeek:

 

[LizzieMaine]

 

[sheeplady]

We send New Years cards. It's a tradition that goes back to the Victorian times. Almost everyone celebrates the New Year. For some, it's the chance for renewal, for other's it's the start of grand things and plans.

Some people I'm not even sure what holiday they celebrate; just as many whom I send cards to don't know which holidays I celebrate. I don't broadcast my beliefs to everyone I know and I don't pry into other people's private lives. I am happy to share my beliefs with anyone who asks me what I celebrate, but an important part of my belief system is that I do not proselytize to people. Part of that for me is that I do not mention my religion unless it comes up in a very personal way.

As someone who's religion is often mistaken for something other than I actually practice (all the time), I absolutely harbor no ill feeling towards someone who wishes me a joyous holiday I don't celebrate. In my mind, I'm lucky to have people who wish that I have a wonderful day.

 

[ButteMT61]

^^ Such ads meant to do one thing - sell products. It simply covers a longer period of time to say Seasons Greetings or Happy Holidays. Like I said, nothing wrong with the terms - it's how some use them. And they're out there (or in here) to make sure everyone knows how they feel. But I bet every single one accepts Christmas gifts!