Can anyone tell me how to remove this button?

[Mechamaniac]

I recently picked up a Kriegsmarine jacket from NH. Overall, I'm very happy with it for the price. I really want to replace the buttons but I'm not sure how the originals are attached.

They are metal and are attached to a metal ring that seems to go through the front of the jacket and into a metal rivet of sorts on the inside. I'd be just as happy with stitching new buttons on but I'd like to figure out how to get these off first. If anyone can help me out, I'd appreciate it. My internet searches have proved fruitless.

Here are pics...

Front:

Inside:

 

[Peacoat]

I think you will learn to like those buttons just fine.

Welcome to the Lounge. PC

 

[Mechamaniac]

I like the style of button, but I don't like the huge square shank. I'd like something closer to the original button shank. I'm not sure what the silver discs are on the inside but they seem to have a bead of epoxy around the inner circle.

If someone can tell me how they're attached, or how to disassemble them, I'd appreciate it. I have searched all over but haven't seen anything like them.

NH calls them "counter buttons" ?

 

[Peacoat]

I said, "I think you will learn to like those buttons just fine" because it doesn't appear that you will be getting them off anytime soon. They were installed permanently.

An old prayer comes to mind: "Please grant me the strength to change those things that need to be changed, the patience to live with those that can't be changed and the wisdom to know the difference."

 

[Capesofwrath]

When I've had need to replace a similar design of button where the metal backing was sandwiched between the leather facings I've cut the button away and sewn the new one to the remaining thread. Assuming the button is put on with plenty of strong thread. Unless of course the metal ring comes through to the front which would make it easy to sew on to. The picture doesn't show that.

Otherwise you might have to undo a seam to gain access to take it apart.

 

[Grayland]

Would you mind posting a few pics of the coat? Maybe even a few of you wearing the coat? That jacket has caught my interest before and the ebay pics don't tell the story well enough.

 

[Mechamaniac]

When I've had need to replace a similar design of button where the metal backing was sandwiched between the leather facings I've cut the button away and sewn the new one to the remaining thread. Assuming the button is put on with plenty of strong thread. Unless of course the metal ring comes through to the front which would make it easy to sew on to. The picture doesn't show that.

Otherwise you might have to undo a seam to gain access to take it apart.

Thanks for the insight. Sorry if the pics aren't too clear. The silver discs on the inside appear to be two pieces with the inner circle being slightly domed and the outer circle being mostly flat. On the outside of the jacket, the buttons themselves are metal and attached to a metal ring that comes through from the inside of the coat presumably ending in the metal disc.

I don't think I'd have to open any seams, I'm guessing a couple of quick snips with a wire cutter to the outsides of the ring will release the button and allow me to pull the disc off from the inside. Then I would just sew on the replacements. These seem to be plenty sturdy and I'm guessing that's what they're meant to be, but the original KM jackets I've seen just have sewn on buttons and these, while sturdy, are kind of bulky on the front of the coat, especially the ones on the left that are just there essentially for decoration.

Thanks for the insight!

 

[Mechamaniac]

Would you mind posting a few pics of the coat? Maybe even a few of you wearing the coat? That jacket has caught my interest before and the ebay pics don't tell the story well enough.

I don't have any pics of me in it, but I've included a few of the rather crappy cellphone variety in this post. Here's a quick review. The coat is very nice and (at the risk of being flamed) IMHO about the most accurate out there if you want the KM design. I spent many hours researching and culling together pictures of originals and comparing them to the other KM style designs out there like the Bad Wolf, Magnoli etc. The closest Eastman and Aero have to the KM are their Luftwaffe or Barnstormer jackets which are close, but not exact. Schott makes one that is very close but only showed them in size Small. When I came across the NH site, I liked that it was closest to the coats I had seen and that it was "off the rack". I doubt that many of the guys who were issued these jackets had time to visit their tailors

Incidentally, I should say that I in no way endorse the policies or beliefs of Nazi Germany, but I have always been taken with the coat design. I actually hesitated about ordering it since they went so far as to include the KM acceptance 'Eagle over M" embossing. I emailed NH about this to make sure they did not go so far as to include the swastika, to which they promptly replied that the did not. When I received the jacket, the swastika has been replaced with a globe (see pic)

Anyway, the jacket itself is very nice. It's made from a very heavy leather and is fleece lined. I have broad shoulders so I went with a XXL. The jacket fits me very well and is super warm. I was out shoveling snow in it for two hours the other day in 16 degree weather and was totally comfortable. Every time I've worn it I have been toasty warm without being hot. It seemed very snug at first through the arm pit area but I got used to it and surmised that it probably wouldn't gain me anything to exchange for a larger size. The sizes are posted on their website and the next size up basically just gives you an extra inch in the chest and body but doesn't point out anything about the circumference of the sleeves. The sleeves have built in cuffs to keep out the cold, which they do very well. All in all, very comfortable and warm.

Now on to the bad. The left hand pocket flap seems to have a stitch that came loose at some point at the back of the flap so there's a small 1/4 inch tab that slips out from under the seam. (See pic) I can tuck it back in with my fingertip and it looks fine. I'm sure I could exchange it, but considering I'd have to ship it back to Germany and wait upwards of a month for a replacement (mine took two weeks to get here) I'd rather just have my local dry cleaner fix it for $10.00. That's really the only "bad" thing I have noticed.

The reason for this thread is the buttons. They are cast in gray metal and painted/weathered black. If you look at the above pics you'll see that the shank on the back of the button is very large and rectangular and is attached through the coat by a metal ring. Very sturdy, but a bit bulky to look at especially on the left side where the buttons are essentially for decoration. The big rectangle and ring setup makes the buttons hang away from the coat a bit more than I'd like them to. The bottom 8 buttons are typical "fouled anchor" designs. See pic for the dangly effect I'd like to get rid of. Repro KM buttons have much smaller shanks, nothing like these big rectangular jobs which I assume are cast specificall for NH.

Dangly buttons...

The top two buttons are pebbled like the buttons used on the Heer or Luftwaffe uniform tunics. I assume they did this so the molded anchors wouldn't distress the leather since these buttons are usually covered by the lapels. There's also a third pebbled button on the left hand lapel facing outward that buttons to a button hole on the right hand lapel if you want to button it all the way up and close the lapels all the way. There's also a small black button on the right lapel that I'm not sure is supposed to attach to anything. The pebbled buttons and small black button are all sewn on, they don't use the "through the leather" ring system.

Heer/Luftwaffe buttons...

Again, all in all, a very nice coat and I'm happy with it. I would say if you're looking for a nice KM jacket in the sub $500 range then you can't really go wrong with this one. If I can get the buttons replaced with something that sits more flush, I'll be 100% happy with it.

Front...

Back...

RZM Stitching...(another tic in the accuracy column)