Can anyone read Japanese signature cartouches?

[Warbaby]

I have two very fine Japanese ivory carvings that are obviously the work of a master carver. I'd really like to know who did them and I'm wondering if anyone in the Lounge can read the signatures.

 

[Tomasso]

I'm sure that LaMedicine or daizawaguy will be along shortly to help.

 

[LaMedicine]

The figurine

First off, I know next to nothing about antiques, and I know next to nothing about classic caligraphy, either, so what I am going to post is based on common knowledge that a relatively well educated Japanese would have.
The figurine.
This may be Chinese, rather than Japanese, based on 1) the costume and 2) the signature.
1) The costume is Chinese based on the fact that the old man is wearing long trousers, and a skirt-like cloth around his waist and hips, plus the wrist of the sleeves are fully open rather than partially closed.
2) The signature is also more typical ancient Chinese caligraphy rather than Japanese. There are differences, and though I can't point out the finer points (I'm sure experts can), it's simply a *feeling* that I get.
The letters, read in Japanese pronunciation, is Sou-Sai but I don't know the Chinese pronunciation.
The base letters are these.

which in modern print would be this.

I have to boot out for now, later on the box.

 

[LaMedicine]

The box

I need a close up of the signature to tell what's what.
The bottom letter looks like 光 which means light.
This box could also be Chinese rather than Japanese, but can't really say.

 

[daizawaguy]

Not an expert in antiques, but have been to many shows and exhibitions, including countless shops - would say this is more Chinese than Japanese - the man`s face, and the box with Monkey`s just does not fit in to anything I`ve seen on the Japanese front. Would be best to get them professionally accessed.

 

[LaMedicine]

Glad you and I are in agreement, D-guy, I was thinking that the ivory box also was Chinese, too, but I wanted to see a larger pic of the sig on the box to be sure.
As far as I know, most artifact of this nature--ornamental boxes--would be either laquered woodwork (carved or makie) or metal, here in Japan.

 

[Warbaby]

Big-time thanks for the info, LaMedicine. Here's a close up of the signature on the monkey box:

 

[LaMedicine]

Apologies

First off, apologies on the figurine sig. I just realised I converted to a similar letter with the same pronunciation :eusa_doh: so have corrected the letter to what it should be.
A little about it. The first letter is pronounced either chung or zong according to a Japanese Kanji dictionary that I have. The second letter is apprently pronounced zai, so in Chinese, it could be Chung Zai or Zong Zai. The first letter is the family name. The second letter could be the name, but I am more inclined to think that it's a kind of nom de plume, rather than the true name, as the letter zai (or sai in Japanese) is a relatively common letter used for nom de plumes both in China and Japan.

The box. The first letter probably is 王 Wang (Oh in Japanese) means king; the second letter looks like 石 Shi (ishi in Japanese) meaning stone. The third letter 光 seems to be pronounced guang(kou in Japanese). So, 王石光 Wang Shi Guang maybe. Of course, this is just a guess and since Chinese characters have multiple pronunciations depending on the dialect and the era, the correct pronunciation could very well be different. This is most surely a Chinese name, so I think you can safely say that the box is by a Chinese craftsman.

 

[Warbaby]

Thanks again, LaMedicine, for taking the time to research the signatures. It will give me a start on researching the artists and dating the carvings.