Campaign Hat Autcion Price

[Mojave Jack]

Thanks for your very helpful guidance, Pat, Dean, & others.

Once finished, I'll post some pics. I plan to wear this hat for my wildlife work in the field. It will get a good deal of abuse, but that will just add to it's character.

I've never been totally satisfied with any of the hats I've used for field work. My Montana peak looks too much like a scoutmaster (I was one of those for a time); a cowboy hat looks too much like just that...a cowboy; my Filson wool felt weighs a ton when it gets wet; and a fedora looks just too dressed-up.

I think this hat will be perfect for field work. Come to think of it, historically, that was precisely their purpose.

Wolfman, what sort of fieldwork do you do, and where are you? What type of cowboy hat are you converting? I'm constantly looking for the perfect field hat, too, but one that is well suited for the desert. Felt is a too hot for summer desert work (particularly my Australian slouch, which weighs a ton), but straws just don't take the abuse. I've tried a variety of canvas hats, but they just end up droopy and look really cheap and crappy. Perhaps with sufficient ventilation a good campaign hat would overcome the problems of felt and fit the bill.... My wife is getting a bit tired of my constant hat testing! lol

Does anyone have any experience with Dirty Billy's campaign hat? It's a Nutria blend (apparently like the originals, as it turns out!) but it doesn't say if the blend is wool, rabbit, beaver, or what. I'm assuming not beaver or rabbit, or that would have been mentioned in lieu of the nutria, but I'm hoping it's not wool.

 

[Wolfmanjack]

Mojave Jack, I study the behavior and ecology of wolves (Canis lupus) in the Chequamegon National Forest in Northern Wisconsin. Not exactly the desert. Peak summer temperatures are in the 80s, notwithstanding global warming.

My experience with straw and canvas in the field is similar to yours. Straw will crumble the first time you sit on it (accidentally); and canvas is hot and looks sloppy. I have a former student who works in the field under hot, arid conditions. He says a good-quality felt hat, soaked in water, will keep your head cool as a cucumber.

I just nabbed this baby on eBay; a Resistol 4x beaver. I plan to use this to make the conversion to a 1899-1902 "pre-Montana" campaign hat.

Dirty Billy's campaign hat has been discussed on the Lounge. As I recall, it did not get stunning reviews. deanglen can give you the scoop on Dirty Billy's campaign hat.

 

[Pat_H]

Mojave Jack, I study the behavior and ecology of wolves (Canis lupus) in the Chequamegon National Forest in Northern Wisconsin. Not exactly the desert. Peak summer temperatures are in the 80s, notwithstanding global warming.

My experience with straw and canvas in the field is similar to yours. Straw will crumble the first time you sit on it (accidentally); and canvas is hot and looks sloppy. I have a former student who works in the field under hot, arid conditions. He says a good-quality felt hat, soaked in water, will keep your head cool as a cucumber.

I just nabbed this baby on eBay; a Resistol 4x beaver. I plan to use this to make the conversion to a 1899-1902 "pre-Montana" campaign hat.

Dirty Billy's campaign hat has been discussed on the Lounge. As I recall, it did not get stunning reviews. deanglen can give you the scoop on Dirty Billy's campaign hat.

Interesting.

I do a fair amount of stock work (cattle) in all sorts of weather, including hot summer weather, and still wear an old Stetson beaver felt cowboy hat for most of it. While I have quite a few cowboy hats, I still favor an old one, now pushing some 20 years old, for most work. I've only gone to straw hats, for the very hottest weather, recently. I need to find a nice quality straw hat, as I haven't found any I'm quite satisfied with yet.

 

[deanglen]

Dirty Billy's campaign hat has been discussed on the Lounge. As I recall, it did not get stunning reviews. deanglen can give you the scoop on Dirty Billy's campaign hat.

Mojave,
Here's a thread from last summer I'm sure you'll recall. http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=10883&page=4I was pretty new to the Lounge, and campaign hats were what I was all about. Still strong on them. Joel's hat is so great. In some research I did, I found out that straw hats were worn by frontier army troops in hot weather.

dean

 

[Pat_H]

Mojave,
Here's a thread from last summer I'm sure you'll recall. http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=10883&page=4I was pretty new to the Lounge, and campaign hats were what I was all about. Still strong on them. Joel's hat is so great. In some research I did, I found out that straw hats were worn by frontier army troops in hot weather.

dean

Indeed, as odd as it may seem, the 7th Cavalry's troopers had privately purchased straw boaters from a vendor on the Yellowstone some time prior to Little Big Horn. That doesn't fit our image of them, but it did occur.

 

[deanglen]

Indeed, as odd as it may seem, the 7th Cavalry's troopers had privately purchased straw boaters from a vendor on the Yellowstone some time prior to Little Big Horn. That doesn't fit our image of them, but it did occur.

Exactly! But does anyone (that means you, at least,Pat, et.al.) have photos of them? Love to see examples!

dean

 

[Mojave Jack]

Mojave,
Here's a thread from last summer I'm sure you'll recall. http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=10883&page=4I was pretty new to the Lounge, and campaign hats were what I was all about. Still strong on them. Joel's hat is so great. In some research I did, I found out that straw hats were worn by frontier army troops in hot weather.

dean

Ah, yes! I do recall that thread! Apparently I lost track of it, though, and missed about the last three or so pages of it! Only a whopping six months ago, too; It's really hard to get old and forgetful! lol

 

[Feraud]

Indeed, as odd as it may seem, the 7th Cavalry's troopers had privately purchased straw boaters from a vendor on the Yellowstone some time prior to Little Big Horn. That doesn't fit our image of them, but it did occur.

I just might have a picture or two of those Old West styled straw hats.
I will check my bookshelf tonight and update the thread if I find anything.

 

[deanglen]

I just might have a picture or two of those Old West styled straw hats.
I will check my bookshelf tonight and update the thread if I find anything.

Thanx, Feraud, here's hoping you find something. I have this shot of a straw version of the M1872 Campaign Hats, on the center and right, very rare and unusual hats:

dean

 

[plain old dave]

I just might have a picture or two of those Old West styled straw hats.
I will check my bookshelf tonight and update the thread if I find anything.

Wouldn't they be very similar to what just about any CW Sutler or Amish/Mennonite supplier would have for a straw hat?

 

[deanglen]

Wouldn't they be very similar to what just about any CW Sutler or Amish/Mennonite supplier would have for a straw hat?

I think you're right, Dave, based some pictures I've seen. Pat mentioned "boaters", which I have not seen, if by "boater" I'm to understand the type of hat I know as a "boater".

dean

 

[Pat_H]

I think you're right, Dave, based some pictures I've seen. Pat mentioned "boaters", which I have not seen, if by "boater" I'm to understand the type of hat I know as a "boater".

dean

I suspect we're thinking of the same style of hat, that being a short brimmed straw hat which now is primarily associated with political campaigns. At that time, I think, the crowns were somewhat more substantial, and perhaps the brim as well. They would indeed resemble the straw hats worn by Amishmen today in some instances.

 

[Feraud]

Indeed, as odd as it may seem, the 7th Cavalry's troopers had privately purchased straw boaters from a vendor on the Yellowstone some time prior to Little Big Horn. That doesn't fit our image of them, but it did occur.

Sure. It would depend on what type of straw hat your frontier vendor would carry. A vendor travelling with the 7th might have goods from back east and you could purchase a traditional boater type straw like the one in the middle.

If you were campaigning with Crook in the Southwest chasing the elusive Apache, your vendor might carry straw hats that were influenced or made by the local Hispanic hatters. Something similar to this.

 

[deanglen]

Excellent references, Feraud! I'm guessing the first page with the straw hat there is a likely candidate, so to speak, for the type of hat. And Pat is right, I was thinking of the style of hat I know as a boater, we commonly think of as a "political" campaign hat, and agree with him that "Amish" dimensions and style were probably period correct.

dean

 

[deanglen]

I suspect we're thinking of the same style of hat, that being a short brimmed straw hat which now is primarily associated with political campaigns. At that time, I think, the crowns were somewhat more substantial, and perhaps the brim as well. They would indeed resemble the straw hats worn by Amishmen today in some instances.

Any idea of how many troopers would have been wearing those hats? It is strange to imagine the glorious 7th going in to battle looking like a mass of pacifistic Amish farmers!lol In headgear terms alone, you understand. But if I had to choose a hat for July on the High Plains, the black M1876 or a boater I know which one I'd have chosen, if the officers allowed it.

dean

 

[Feraud]

Any idea of how many troopers would have been wearing those hats? It is strange to imagine the glorious 7th going in to battle looking like a mass of pacifistic Amish farmers!lol In headgear terms alone, you understand. But if I had to choose a hat for July on the High Plains, the black M1876 or a boater I know which one I'd have chosen, if the officers allowed it.

dean

People get caught up in the romantic images of the past based on paintings like the famous Anheuser Bush lithograph. It is very understanable and one of my favorites.
I would imagine once the troopers left the parade grounds and got into the realities of the campaign, they took slight liberties with "the rules". Of course this also depends on the commanding officer. Custer was known for his flamboyance and probably allowed his soldiers a bit of headwear leeway.
Btw, great discussion!

 

[Pat_H]

People get caught up in the romantic images of the past based on paintings like the famouns Anheuser Bush lithograph. It is very understanable and one of my favorites.
I would imagine once the troopers left the parade grounds and got into the realities of the campaign, they took slight liberties with "the rules". Of course this also depends on the commanding officer. Custer was known for his flamboyance and probably allowed his soldiers a bit of headwear leeway.
Btw, great discussion!

At that time, soldiers in the U.S. Army had considerable leeway on campaign. It was extremely common for the soldiers to outfit themselves with obsolete or worn uniforms, rather than wear their newer ones, given the desire not to wear out any clothes you'd have to replace outside of your clothing allowance.

Additionally, the use of civilian items where suitable was quite common. I've seen one pre Civil War comment by an officer regarding his men noting that they didn't appear to be soldiers at all, as they were outfitted in checked shirts, etc. Period photos support that large amounts of civilian clothing were worn on campaign, although perhaps somewhat less so after the Civil War. Having said that, it was still common.

Added to that, the wearing of uniform items outside of their intended purpose was common. For example, the cotton stable uniform was commonly worn on campaign in the summer, as it was cooler than the wool uniform. At least some of the troopers at Little Big Horn were outfitted in their white cotton stable uniforms at the time of the battle, and there are references to Terry's column being briefly fooled by Indians wearing them, as they'd stripped them from the dead.

To add even a little more, some individual units departed enormously from standard in terms of uniform items on a unit basis. Officers of the 7th Cavalry were noted for that, as Custer had always done that, and his style seems to have influenced the unit. Quite a few officers of the 7th had wool jackets with wide, "fireman" style collars, with crossed sabers embroidered on the points of the collars. Paxson's famous painting shows that detail, although it otherwise inaccurately depicts soldiers stripped down to blue wool shirts, when at that time the Army still issued gray wool shirts. Also, at least some officers in many units, including the 7th, had their trousers cut into an early pattern of breech. At that time the Army did not issue riding trousers, having only one pattern, so having a pair of those cut for riding, and foxed in the seat, was quite a stylistic departure.

The biggest uniform departure, however, in the 7th is found in that one of the subunits, I've forgotten which one, actually had a bunch of field uniforms made up out of black and white cowhide. So that particular unit could be found wearing a uniform resembling the outside of a Jersey cow. They were not so attired at Little Big Horn, I believe, but perhaps after that. I've seen a photo of two troopers of that unit for sale once on Ebay, misindentified.

Other examples of such things could be given, and many can be found on the TMH site I linked in. The 11th Kansas Cavalry, for example, which was stationed in Wyoming at the end of the Civil War favored buckskins for the field. Most soldier in central Wyoming had to outfit themselves with wolf furs for winter, etc.

On the topic of hats, civilian broad brimmed hat were very popular throughout the Frontier period. In looking at it, they came in early, and the use of civilian hats remained up until at least the adoption of the M1911 hat. It became less common after the Army started issuing good broad brimmed hats in the 1880s, but it did carry on until the M1911. Even after that, hat makers offered better grades of the military hat for sale, so officers in particular could purchase a better quality hat.

Swinging away from campaign hats, hat makers also offered semi formal caps of the pillbox type for officers, which were popular in the late 19th Century. They were sort of unofficial dress hats, for formal occasions.

 

[Pat_H]

Any idea of how many troopers would have been wearing those hats? It is strange to imagine the glorious 7th going in to battle looking like a mass of pacifistic Amish farmers!lol In headgear terms alone, you understand. But if I had to choose a hat for July on the High Plains, the black M1876 or a boater I know which one I'd have chosen, if the officers allowed it.

dean

Quite a few, apparently.

I've babbled on in the post immediately above, but to add a bit, Feraud is absolutely correct. Our image of the romantically attired trooper, as I discuss above, doesn't quite reflect the actual picture.

In the case of Army units of this period, an interesting aspect of them is that the enlisted ranks were heavily populated with immigrants. The 7th in 1876, for example, had a very large percentage of German and Irish nationals in it. I can't recall the precentage, but I think it might have been the case that a majority of the troopers came from those two countries, with even one officer, Miles Keogh, having been born in Ireland and then having served in the British Army and the Swiss Guards prior to the U.S. Army. Another 7th Cavalry officer was a refugee from Italy, having been involved on the wrong side of one of the Italian civil wars.

Anyhow, their clothes were pretty functional, and given their background, they may not quite have had the same idea of Frontier romance that we do, or that even their contemporary American born countrymen did.

 

[Pat_H]

Sure. It would depend on what type of straw hat your frontier vendor would carry. A vendor travelling with the 7th might have goods from back east and you could purchase a traditional boater type straw like the one in the middle.

Neat photos, what are they from?

Wow, I see I've gone from new in town to familiar face.

 

[Feraud]

The photos are from a western memorabilia book I have on the shelf.
It is full of interesting stuff.