Buzz Aldrin Strikes Back!

[BigFitz]

Agreed entirely, though I can understand anyone snapping if someone has been in their face like that all day.

Resorting to assault because of one's "federal" celebrity? Is that why he punched the guy? Behavior from someone who's lived his entire life on the taxpayer's dime? Yes, you must just stand there and politely take menacing from anyone because you received a federal paycheck.

 

[ButteMT61]

LOL. No. And glad he didn't.

 

[sheeplady]

Was this ever even addressed in a criminal context? What I mean is were the police called? Was there an arrest? Were charges laid? Unless all that happened it is inaccurate to call the law suit being thrown out a miscarriage of justice. Even if the police had been called in, it was just one punch to a guy who was being aggressive. I figure any cop would know that unless the denier had sustained some physical injury nobody would prosecute the case. This would be true for someone like Buzz Aldrin but also for an unknown person. if person A punches person B, an B isn't physically harmed why would the police lay charges? Wouldn't they just separate them and make sure the hostilities were over? Of course, I will admit that it all depends on the officer who responds to the call.

Well, I think two things.
1. I have heard of people being charged for attacking another (this actually happened to someone I am close to) despite witnesses that the person was never touched. They weren't held in jail, but they had to go to court. So I think it depends upon where you are.

2. The criteria for a civil suit is so different than a criminal suit that if a civil suit is thrown out it means the bar was pretty low, if the judge is being fair (and not throwing it out for reasons other than the evidence).

 

[sheeplady]

Resorting to assault because of one's "federal" celebrity? Is that why he punched the guy? Behavior from someone who's lived his entire life on the taxpayer's dime? Yes, you must just stand there and politely take menacing from anyone because you received a federal paycheck.

Plenty of people live off the "taxpayer's dime" and are civil servants and/or politicians. That doesn't mean they are whipping boys and gals for taxpayers.

 

[ButteMT61]

Plenty of people live off the "taxpayer's dime" and are civil servants and/or politicians. That doesn't mean they are whipping boys and gals for taxpayers.

I'd say Buzz gave more than he got myself. Those guy's contributions I'd wager are priceless. Happy to pay for them. Others, not so much.

 

[scotrace]

Dirtbag needed killin.'

 

[LizzieMaine]

For what it's worth, the "career bureaucrat" flew 66 combat missions during the Korean War. He wasn't a desk jockey, and I'd think the taxpayers got their money's worth.

 

[overlord4215]

So let me get this strait some young guy gets into the face of an American Hero who also happens to be a senior citizen and gets whats comeing to him and then he sues ? Looks like someone just turned in his Man Card .On a side note I have no problem with anyone questioning anything discussion is always healthy but in this case i dont think its even plausable that the thousands of people involved in our space program could keep such a secret .

 

[sheeplady]

Both bullying and verbal assault are tools of weak-willed un-creative individuals who can't stand on their own.

There are certain "types" of people I could find this behavior acceptable towards. For instance, a ruthless dictator? Have fun bullying them. The person who murdered your entire family? Sure. But otherwise, no. Civilized people don't take their disagreements out by bullying, no matter how much you disagree with a person.

 

[W4ASZ]

Dirtbag needed killin.'

This is the Alabama Defense.

 

[MikeBravo]

I will defer to the judgement of the judge on this one.

It appears that the situation was accelerating and Aldrin used a quick jab to nip things in the bud. The judge after seeing and hearing all the evidence made the decision that Mr Aldrin acted reasonably in the circmstances (and as I posted previously, that is what a judge or jury looks at).

 

[Aerojoe]

The one that should have been charged here is the bully, considering he already has police records for vandalism;

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/08/02/sibrelenfreude/

"Moon hoax conspiracy promulgator, astronaut stalker, and Buzz Aldrin punching bag Bart Sibrel was recently arrested for vandalism. Apparently, someone took too long to get out of a parking space he wanted. He parked nearby, got out of his car, and then repeatedly jumped up and down on the offending car, doing over $1400 worth of damage"

 

[Dixon Cannon]

The statement that Buzz lived on the "taxpayer's dime" and was otherwise some hack is laughable, and speaks volumes about the guy posting it. Sibrel's brother maybe? Gotta wonder...some sort of ulterior motive there. Sibrel was like the guy that harassed the drive-in worker (female) at Chick-Fil-A. No pun intended, but the same ilk of chicken-**** "man" that I despise.

I'm the guy that posted the "taxpayer's dime" comment. What it speak's about me is simply this; if you're going to make your living by taking taxpayer's money as your income, you are a public servant. Being involved in a public works project like a moon shot is no exception. If you don't want to take questions and/or insults from the people that pay you, stay out of the public view. But this tax paying citizen expects two things in a case like this; that the public servant won't resort to street violence when his celebrity status is challenged, and that law enforcement and the judiciary will treat every citizen equally under the law. We can all agree, because it is in the newspapers every Monday, that average (taxpaying) citizens who brawl at the bar, or at a ball game, or at park get arrested and prosecuted. it would happen to me - it would happen to you. Permitting our government at any level to make exceptions for "sacred cows", because of their perceived celebrity or hero status is unjust and makes a mockery of our system of justice - it erodes our expectations of what justice should be. I don't suffer hero worship for these guys who spend their lives collecting paychecks from taxpayers - if anything they should be grateful that WE selected them and allowed them to represent US in their aerospace endeavors - WE are their employers and every one of us - including this Sibrel character - deserve their respect, not violent outbursts when they become impatient. Aldrin was out of line. If he wants to play celebrity but can't take the heat, he should stay home (or hire bodyguards!).

-dixon cannon (no relation to Sibrel - no ulterior motive)

 

[Dixon Cannon]

Resorting to assault because of one's "federal" celebrity? Is that why he punched the guy? Behavior from someone who's lived his entire life on the taxpayer's dime? Yes, you must just stand there and politely take menacing from anyone because you received a federal paycheck.

Yes. See my comments just above.

-dixon cannon

 

[BigFitz]

Mr. Sibrel was menacing Mr. Aldrin, that's unacceptable behavior. Why would he continue harassing Mr. Aldrin if it was apparent he wasn't going to submit to this nut's request? I'm fairly certain that if some jerk wad was follwing you around and insulting you and it was caught on tape that you retaliated, when shown to a judge, the verdict would probably be the same.

Yeah right, the guy volunteers to go in the military (because the Country was seeking people to do a job) and flies in combat to effect national policy. Then the country sets a goal and looks for volunteers with the ability and guts to do another job and Buzz and the rest of the astronauts met the criterion for the mission. Who else was volunteering to do this dangerous work? We needed people and he answered the call and for that he has to take junk from people like Sibrel? Sibrel is the one who was out of line and the judge said so. As a matter of opinion, I believe Sibrel was trying to incite an incident and he got it.
Another thing, I think we should get rid of the military and turn over our defense to private contractors(of course that still requires taxes, so I guess were stuck with having to pay for things like defense).

As Lizzie said, being a civil servant doesn't turn you into a whipping boy.

I'm missing a box of Lipton's black.

 

[sheeplady]

WE are their employers and every one of us - including this Sibrel character - deserve their respect, not violent outbursts when they become impatient. Aldrin was out of line. If he wants to play celebrity but can't take the heat, he should stay home (or hire bodyguards!).

So what happens if one of his bodyguards punches or blocks someone? Should the bodyguards just take it too? How far should a federal employee take something from a taxpayer (their employer)? Should the tax payer be allowed to spit on them? Hit them? Stab them? When can they fight back- only when they are sure they are going to die?

I certainly hope you don't go around and harass everyoneone who is a federal employee like that. You must be an awfully mean person to secretaries, nurses, and social workers.

And if my boss ever ever ever treated me like that, you'd bet I'd do something about it. Just because you're the employer of someone doesn't mean you get to torture, bully, and mistreat them. I'd really hate to work for someone with that kind of opinion- they would treat employees with less respect than animals. Employees aren't slaves.

 

[vitanola]

I'm the guy that posted the "taxpayer's dime" comment. What it speak's about me is simply this; if you're going to make your living by taking taxpayer's money as your income, you are a public servant. Being involved in a public works project like a moon shot is no exception. If you don't want to take questions and/or insults from the people that pay you, stay out of the public view. But this tax paying citizen expects two things in a case like this; that the public servant won't resort to street violence when his celebrity status is challenged, and that law enforcement and the judiciary will treat every citizen equally under the law. We can all agree, because it is in the newspapers every Monday, that average (taxpaying) citizens who brawl at the bar, or at a ball game, or at park get arrested and prosecuted. it would happen to me - it would happen to you. Permitting our government at any level to make exceptions for "sacred cows", because of their perceived celebrity or hero status is unjust and makes a mockery of our system of justice - it erodes our expectations of what justice should be. I don't suffer hero worship for these guys who spend their lives collecting paychecks from taxpayers - if anything they should be grateful that WE selected them and allowed them to represent US in their aerospace endeavors - WE are their employers and every one of us - including this Sibrel character - deserve their respect, not violent outbursts when they become impatient. Aldrin was out of line. If he wants to play celebrity but can't take the heat, he should stay home (or hire bodyguards!).

-dixon cannon (no relation to Sibrel - no ulterior motive)

WOW!

The expression, Mr. Cannon is "Dog-Whistle" not "Steam Calliope".

 

[Talbot]

Interesting concept 'On the taxpayers dime'

The firefighter that runs into a burning building deserves no more respect than the person stamping forms at the DMV?

 

[ButteMT61]

Well Dixie, enjoy your place in relative aloneness here. Don't buy into his or your takes, but you're welcome to have 'em. I'll just exercise the same rights to mine.
#occupythis

 

[Mojito]

...if you're going to make your living by taking taxpayer's money as your income, you are a public servant. Being involved in a public works project like a moon shot is no exception. If you don't want to take questions and/or insults from the people that pay you, stay out of the public view. )

I'm a public servant - I work for a commonwealth institution. Out of curiousity, how far am I obligated to "take questions" and "insults" from taxpayers? (bearing in mind, of course, that I'm a taxpayer myself). Mostly my job is very feel good - I work at a museum - and I thoroughly enjoy working with the public. I have frequently gone outside the confines of my job description because I love what I do and like helping people. I have, however, once or twice encountered members of the public - some of questionable mental health - who had a vast sense of entitlement or who were downright abusive. Although I acted for as long as I could in a courteous manner - in spite of their rude and insulting manner - was I in some way obliged to cop all the abuse they wished to dish out because they are my "employers"? I certainly wouldn't take that sort of verbal abuse and harrassment from my work colleagues - am I to take it from any member of the public, at any time? And are the Aldrins of the world expected to be willing to subject themselves to abuse and harrassment?

Don't get me wrong - I take your point about public service and responsibility to the taxpayers being a serious obligation. I work under the Australian Public Service guidelines and take my duty to Australia's taxpayers very seriously - I consider it an honourable job to be working for the public, and I try to do my job conscientiously, stewarding the resources entrusted to me and being answerable through all legal channels of accountability, e.g. audits, Freedom of Information (FOI) etc. I do unpaid work for the museum outside office hours because I take a great deal of pride in my work.