Button-Down Collars with Suits

[Undertow]

Okay, perhaps I've missed some hard rule of etiquette that I ought to know...

What are the rules (if any) regarding wearing button-down collar shirts with suits?

I've heard whispers that it's tacky; no suit or jacket/trouser combo should have a button-down collar. Those should be reserved for days when no jacket is worn.

On the other hand, I've heard folks say it's entirely preference and that an office dweller may feel completely comfortable wearing button-down collars with his three piece or other.

I've searched the FL and I can't seem to find the answer I need so if I've missed a thread regarding this issue, please feel free to delete this thread, move it, or otherwise kick my rear in the right direction! Thanks!

 

[Feraud]

There is nothing wrong with button down collars. They showed up in plenty of single and double breasted suits if period authenticity is desired.

 

[Starius]

I think thats a good question! (Because I didn't know the answer either.)

But, I did read this from http://men.style.com/gq/fashion/styleguy/shirts/417

Q: I wear a variety of shirt-collar styles with my suits, including tab, spread, point and button-down. However, I’m not liking the look of button-down collars with suits anymore. Is it an inappropriate combination? Also, are tab collars out of style? If not, how should I wear them?

A: I feel as though I answer this question every month. Button-downs are sporty. They go with sport coats, and they can be worn with single-breasted suits but not on more formal occasions. Tab collars can be stylish. You can’t wear them if you have too big a face. And if you wear them without a tie, people will think you are copying Bob Dylan, not a look I recommend for everyone.

May 2001

 

[Starius]

Oh, and here are a bunch of opinions on the subject:

Ask MetaFilter: Can I wear a button down collar with a suit and tie?

Which includes a link to a rather interesting book.

 

[Feraud]

To simplify the reqeust I look at it like this -
Was it done in the Golden Era? Answer: Yes!
That is good enough for me. Further discussion of "is it popular, trendy, acceptable" etc., etc. does not interest me. I can decide when to wear a button down.

Part of having Style is not letting random trend setters dictate what is acceptable for you.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Many people claim to dislike the look of button down collars, particularly with DB suit jackets, which is a perfectly acceptable individual style choice.

The men's wear establishment being what it is you'll hear an awful lot about what is 'correct' and 'incorrect' when wearing button-down collars. I believe they were originally intended as 'sporting' shirts. Does this mean they must remain, forever and a day, relegated for use as sporting shirts? Some would have it yes, claiming that the supposed tradition is more important than personal style choices. The more i hear this argument i feel more and more that it is someone trying to bolster his style choices with a veneer of traditional combinations that really didn't exist.

Make of the arguments what you will. I think it's quite clear where i stand on this issue.

bk

 

[Orgetorix]

It's a tricky question, and one that has had a lot of debate on clothing forums.

I regularly wear a button-down collar shirt when I'm wearing an odd jacket and slacks. I seldom, if ever, wear one with a suit, and when I do it's almost always with a more casual suit. The BD collar is relatively less formal than a straight/point/spread/whatever collar, and I just don't think it has enough gravity for more formal suits. I never wear one, for example, with a double-breasted suit. I know Astaire and other Golden-era dandies did so, but they could make just about anything look good. On ordinary people, it usually looks odd. Same with using a necktie as a belt, another Astaire habit.

 

[Tomasso]

with DB suit jackets, which is a perfectly acceptable individual style choice.

BTW, notice the button down-double cuff combo. :eusa_clap

 

[iammatt]

BTW, notice the button down-double cuff combo. :eusa_clap

As we spoke about some time back, I had a couple of shirts made up like this. I have found that I really like them, although I have not put one on with a DB suit. I had planned on white only, but also had a blue stripe done that came out very well. Have you gotten around to ordering one up yet?

As to the original question, I think it is just fine and often looks excellent. IMO it is a better look than some of the ridiculous spreads one sees everywhere nowadays.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

That is a particularly lovely collar grant is wearing. Look at the size/depth of it! (Particularly in the back.) Very odd for the era.

bk

 

[griffer]

To simplify the reqeust I look at it like this -
Was it done in the Golden Era? Answer: Yes!
That is good enough for me. ...Part of having Style is not letting random trend setters dictate what is acceptable for you.

So having style is letting the trend setters from the 30s dictate what is acceptable?




Personally, modern BDs are just too casual. The collars rarely have enough substance (a hinkey freeman i have owned was an exception) or lay flat enough or stand tall enough to look right with a suit. Yes, Cary's shirt above looks great, but it is the exception, not the rule.

And as a shirt targeted to a sportier, casual consumer, the material, cut and construction match that level of dress.

That said, I own two white BDs just to go with my many kahkis and sport coats when I want a simpler look.

Also, I worked with a two guys who always wore the same Americn box navy blue suits, British regimental ties, white BDs and a white cotton square.

Every day.

Same thing.

Both of them.

It never looked good. They looked like two security guards with napkins in place of badges.

 

[Feraud]

So having style is letting the trend setters from the 30s dictate what is acceptable?

Quite the opposite actually..

Having Style is knowing what you like regardless of who or what set the trend, knowing your options(something this thread should help instruct with), and going with it.

I hope people get to the point where they stop saying, "well it looked good on Cary Grant, Astaire, or Niven but they could pull it off..".
That is a load of garbage.

 

[Jovan]

It is, Feraud. They simply proved it could be done, not that you need tonnes of personal charm to pull it off. That always helps of course. The old Brooks Brothers collars had some fairly long, floppy points with a back button to keep the tie band in place; a nice detail you only see once in a blue moon now. I think Grant wore BB shirts.

 

[Shaul-Ike Cohen]

That is a particularly lovely collar grant is wearing. Look at the size/depth of it! (Particularly in the back.)

Isn't that special-made because of his neck?

Anyway, when I first heard about the "rule" that you don't wear a tie with a button-down collar, I thought I must have got it wrong. What would you button the collar around, if not a tie?

 

[Undertow]

From what I've gathered on some of those other forums, as well as some of your opinions, it sounds like a BD collar is simply just another type of collar but with a few "expectations", if you will.

Somewhere else on the board I read mention of wing collars being worn with regular suits and ties, and that this is considered "outdated". If one prefered, one could wear a wing collar with suit and tie; there's no real question of propriety or style, it's just a matter of common practice.

It seems BD collars are in the same boat. They were designed for sporting events, brought to the US for prep and ivy league. In today's society, it seems they are a "less formal" alternative to spread/straight/etc.

So correct me if I'm wrong, but the overall consensus seems as follows (besides the obvious "wear it if ya like it!"):

BD's are less formal, originally intended as sportier apparel, and as such, should generally be worn with no jacket, with jacket/trouser combo, or possibly SB suit per taste. One should consider BD/DB mix carefully if one is not already accustomed to said style. Safe bet?

And for Heaven's sake, don't base your opinion of how you look on what some dead guy used to wear! lol

 

[Matt Deckard]

Bottom line, if it looks good it can be done.

Cream jacket with tuxedo trousers
Buttoning all three buttons on a three button suit
wearing a diamond shape tie with tails.

If it works it works.

there is no rule on button downs with suits... i tend to wear them with sport jackets though my reasoning is that if you are wearing a button down, the reason for the button s is a sporty one... holds the collar down durring an activity. Now no caollar flips in your way unless you have a pretty wicked collar. The ones on button downs stay down pretty well without the buttons... today they are an affectation. Anywho... no hard fast rules... just preferences.

 

[Shaul-Ike Cohen]

And then the question if you're "alllowed" to leave them unbuttoned, with or without a tie…

 

[griffer]

Quite the opposite actually..

Having Style is knowing what you like regardless of who or what set the trend, knowing your options(something this thread should help instruct with), and going with it.

I hope people get to the point where they stop saying, "well it looked good on Cary Grant, Astaire, or Niven but they could pull it off..".
That is a load of garbage.

BTW, Feraud, I hope you realize I was just razzing you.

Please don't take offense.

 

[Feraud]

BTW, Feraud, I hope you realize I was just razzing you.

Please don't take offense.

None taken!
You do make a good point about attitudes toward style & individuality.

 

[Orgetorix]

I ain't hatin'. And I don't want to get into another argument about "rules" for clothing. The consensus on this forum seems to be that if someone wants to break a rule and if it has ever been broken by anybody in the last 80 years, it's fair game.

I still think that disregarding things like the relative casual-ness of a button-down collar is...unwise, at least, for anyone who doesn't have Cary Grant's mastery of style. And there are very few people, now or in the Golden Era, who can match him.

Still, if you can make it look this good, by all means--go ahead!