Brent Black thoughts and a couple questions....

[Judgmentalist]

Well, I've been newly researching Montecristi hats, and the vibe that I am getting is that the safest thing to do for a new person like myself would be to buy a hat from Mr. Brent Black.

For one thing, I like to buy things that require meticulous attention to detail from my fellow crazy people, and from what I can tell after having read a couple hundred thousand words of his website marketing copy, Mr. Black lands solidly in that segment of the population.

For another, it looks like even an entry level hat from Brent Black will meet a minimum standard of quality that I'm trying to learn to appreciate as we speak, whereas most other sources, so far as I have been able to determine, are either lower quality, or there is much less transparency involved in the cost/benefit data that is available.

This is not meant to disparage anybody else that is working with the same quality or obsessiveness as Mr. Black, if I'm missing any contenders I will be happy to make your acquaintance, particularly if you can make a case for similar quality at a friendlier price point - and I wasn't talking about you.

Oh, and apparently given the relative fragility of this type of hat vs. felt hats, it may be advisable to stick to buying new to avoid inheriting someone else's problems.

The other thing I have questions about is Mr. Black's lovely selection of vintage and otherwise unique and interesting ribbons that are available.

Personally, I'm struggling with the idea of paying a few hundred extra dollars for a fancy brown ribbon over a SOP brown ribbon, but I also want to consider all the options. This kind of hat, for me, would be like a lifetime achievement-type situation and I'm a big fan of getting it right the first time.

So ...thoughts on buying from Brent Black?
...new vs, secondhand?
...thoughts on the fancy ribbons?
...anything else I am missing?

Just kicking tires and doing research right now. If I end up getting the hat I want from Brent Black it will probably be next season before I get to wear it. Any input that may help further my education is greatly appreciated. Please and thank you in advance.

 

[belfastboy]

Well, I've been newly researching Montecristi hats, and the vibe that I am getting is that the safest thing to do for a new person like myself would be to buy a hat from Mr. Brent Black.

For one thing, I like to buy things that require meticulous attention to detail from my fellow crazy people, and from what I can tell after having read a couple hundred thousand words of his website marketing copy, Mr. Black lands solidly in that segment of the population.

For another, it looks like even an entry level hat from Brent Black will meet a minimum standard of quality that I'm trying to learn to appreciate as we speak, whereas most other sources, so far as I have been able to determine, are either lower quality, or there is much less transparency involved in the cost/benefit data that is available.

This is not meant to disparage anybody else that is working with the same quality or obsessiveness as Mr. Black, if I'm missing any contenders I will be happy to make your acquaintance, particularly if you can make a case for similar quality at a friendlier price point - and I wasn't talking about you.

Oh, and apparently given the relative fragility of this type of hat vs. felt hats, it may be advisable to stick to buying new to avoid inheriting someone else's problems.

The other thing I have questions about is Mr. Black's lovely selection of vintage and otherwise unique and interesting ribbons that are available.

Personally, I'm struggling with the idea of paying a few hundred extra dollars for a fancy brown ribbon over a SOP brown ribbon, but I also want to consider all the options. This kind of hat, for me, would be like a lifetime achievement-type situation and I'm a big fan of getting it right the first time.

So ...thoughts on buying from Brent Black?
...new vs, secondhand?
...thoughts on the fancy ribbons?
...anything else I am missing?

Just kicking tires and doing research right now. If I end up getting the hat I want from Brent Black it will probably be next season before I get to wear it. Any input that may help further my education is greatly appreciated. Please and thank you in advance.

You will get a good hat from BB. You will pay top dollar for it. If you have the discretionary $$ then go for it. I am more inclined to shop value as I want the most bang for my $$$. Same as buying a felt hat from Optimo. Great hat but at $2000 there are much better value hats and makers in the marketplace. But again if you have level of $$ to spend do it....Paying an extra few hundred for ribbon is insane. A hat take 1 yard of ribbon. I have thousands of yards of the best vintage ribbon...my average cost is $5 per yard. I have some exquisite vintage French ribbon...costing me $30. Brent is a master marketing man...he is a master of upselling the 'sizzle'.

 

[Judgmentalist]

You will get a good hat from BB. You will pay top dollar for it. If you have the discretionary $$ then go for it. I am more inclined to shop value as I want the most bang for my $$$. Same as buying a felt hat from Optimo. Great hat but at $2000 there are much better value hats and makers in the marketplace. But again if you have level of $$ to spend do it....Paying an extra few hundred for ribbon is insane. A hat take 1 yard of ribbon. I have thousands of yards of the best vintage ribbon...my average cost is $5 per yard. I have some exquisite vintage French ribbon...costing me $30. Brent is a master marketing man...he is a master of upselling the 'sizzle'.

Yep that marketing thing - I also got that impression lol

 

[belfastboy]

Well, I've been newly researching Montecristi hats, and the vibe that I am getting is that the safest thing to do for a new person like myself would be to buy a hat from Mr. Brent Black.

For one thing, I like to buy things that require meticulous attention to detail from my fellow crazy people, and from what I can tell after having read a couple hundred thousand words of his website marketing copy, Mr. Black lands solidly in that segment of the population.

For another, it looks like even an entry level hat from Brent Black will meet a minimum standard of quality that I'm trying to learn to appreciate as we speak, whereas most other sources, so far as I have been able to determine, are either lower quality, or there is much less transparency involved in the cost/benefit data that is available.

This is not meant to disparage anybody else that is working with the same quality or obsessiveness as Mr. Black, if I'm missing any contenders I will be happy to make your acquaintance, particularly if you can make a case for similar quality at a friendlier price point - and I wasn't talking about you.

Oh, and apparently given the relative fragility of this type of hat vs. felt hats, it may be advisable to stick to buying new to avoid inheriting someone else's problems.

The other thing I have questions about is Mr. Black's lovely selection of vintage and otherwise unique and interesting ribbons that are available.

Personally, I'm struggling with the idea of paying a few hundred extra dollars for a fancy brown ribbon over a SOP brown ribbon, but I also want to consider all the options. This kind of hat, for me, would be like a lifetime achievement-type situation and I'm a big fan of getting it right the first time.

So ...thoughts on buying from Brent Black?
...new vs, secondhand?
...thoughts on the fancy ribbons?
...anything else I am missing?

Just kicking tires and doing research right now. If I end up getting the hat I want from Brent Black it will probably be next season before I get to wear it. Any input that may help further my education is greatly appreciated. Please a5nd thank you in advance.

Yep that marketing thing - I also got that impression lol

If a client wants one of my expensive vintage silk...striped French ribbons my upcharge is $25.

 

[Rmccamey]

Well, I've been newly researching Montecristi hats, and the vibe that I am getting is that the safest thing to do for a new person like myself would be to buy a hat from Mr. Brent Black.

For one thing, I like to buy things that require meticulous attention to detail from my fellow crazy people, and from what I can tell after having read a couple hundred thousand words of his website marketing copy, Mr. Black lands solidly in that segment of the population.

For another, it looks like even an entry level hat from Brent Black will meet a minimum standard of quality that I'm trying to learn to appreciate as we speak, whereas most other sources, so far as I have been able to determine, are either lower quality, or there is much less transparency involved in the cost/benefit data that is available.

This is not meant to disparage anybody else that is working with the same quality or obsessiveness as Mr. Black, if I'm missing any contenders I will be happy to make your acquaintance, particularly if you can make a case for similar quality at a friendlier price point - and I wasn't talking about you.

Oh, and apparently given the relative fragility of this type of hat vs. felt hats, it may be advisable to stick to buying new to avoid inheriting someone else's problems.

The other thing I have questions about is Mr. Black's lovely selection of vintage and otherwise unique and interesting ribbons that are available.

Personally, I'm struggling with the idea of paying a few hundred extra dollars for a fancy brown ribbon over a SOP brown ribbon, but I also want to consider all the options. This kind of hat, for me, would be like a lifetime achievement-type situation and I'm a big fan of getting it right the first time.

So ...thoughts on buying from Brent Black?
...new vs, secondhand?
...thoughts on the fancy ribbons?
...anything else I am missing?

Just kicking tires and doing research right now. If I end up getting the hat I want from Brent Black it will probably be next season before I get to wear it. Any input that may help further my education is greatly appreciated. Please and thank you in advance.

You will get a good hat from BB. You will pay top dollar for it. If you have the discretionary $$ then go for it. I am more inclined to shop value as I want the most bang for my $$$. Same as buying a felt hat from Optimo. Great hat but at $2000 there are much better value hats and makers in the marketplace. But again if you have level of $$ to spend do it....Paying an extra few hundred for ribbon is insane. A hat take 1 yard of ribbon. I have thousands of yards of the best vintage ribbon...my average cost is $5 per yard. I have some exquisite vintage French ribbon...costing me $30. Brent is a master marketing man...he is a master of upselling the 'sizzle'.

As Bob said, you've done your resarch, and if you have the money then buy the hat you want and be happy with it. I'd love to have a new, custom BB or Optimo, but I balk at the price when I know I can get a hat that is 98+% as good materials and build quality for 1/3 to 1/2 the price.

There are times in life that I want things to be perfect and times I want certain things I buy to be the very best I can afford. I get it. But just remember, YOU will be the only one who knows you are wearing a BB. Your friends and neighbors, and the people in the city park, at the baseball game, or at Walmart, won't know and won't care.

 

[Judgmentalist]

As Bob said, you've done your resarch, and if you have the money then buy the hat you want and be happy with it. I'd love to have a new, custom BB or Optimo, but I balk at the price when I know I can get a hat that is 98+% as good materials and build quality for 1/3 to 1/2 the price.

There are times in life that I want things to be perfect and times I want certain things I buy to be the very best I can afford. I get it. But just remember, YOU will be the only one who knows you are wearing a BB. Your friends and neighbors, and the people in the city park, at the baseball game, or at Walmart, won't know and won't care.

Yeah… what I usually do is research myself out of being able to afford whatever is on the table and then walk myself back down to something approaching reasonable lol.

 

[Hurricane Jack]

As Bob said, you've done your resarch, and if you have the money then buy the hat you want and be happy with it. I'd love to have a new, custom BB or Optimo, but I balk at the price when I know I can get a hat that is 98+% as good materials and build quality for 1/3 to 1/2 the price.

I have a different viewpoint. Use the BB as a motivator or reward for reaching a goal in your business or personal life. Some people will never be motivated (or happy) with a Scala straw hat (a Scala can look fashionable going by at 20mph without further examination, if that’s what you want) no matter how cheap. It’s a pride & satisfaction in ownership thing.

 

[trailwalker]

I purchased a BB Panama last year as my first custom hat. Wanted something a little different so went with his “Hemingway” model which is advertised as having some type of age coloration or defect. All I can say is “ Wow!”. The weave is much finer than I ever imagined, and the fit, feel, and look all exceeded what I hoped. Brent has my fullest endorsement!

 

[Judgmentalist]

I read about those. Very tempting. The only thing that worried me was the bit about possible brim defects if I remember correctly. I’d like to see pictures of yours.

 

[blewnote]

I have no experience with a Brent Black or an Optimo, but I would highly recommend if you have never really worn hats that you start with some vintage hats or some of the reputable but not so expensive independent hatters you can find recommended here on the Lounge to dial in your size and style before you start spending the kind of money that those hats cost. I understand the desire for "the best" but I feel like if you don't already know what that is you won't necessarily learn what it is relative to things of "lesser" quality. And quite honestly, as Robert (belfastboy) said earlier, the increase in quality compared to the increase in price really isn't equal. Like I would totally put a hat from the 30s or 40s in great condition up against one of those and maybe even think the old hat is better.

It would **** to spend $1000-1200 (at least that's what I think those run?) to find out that you actually don't really enjoy wearing homburgs, or you much prefer the look of a thin ribbon like a stratoliner or open road style to a thicker ribbon , or you really want a bound brim instead of an cavanaugh edge, or that grey just doesn't make you wanna reach for it most of the time, or that you look better with a medium crown instead of a taller one, etc.

Although as you mentioned you are a larger head size and I do know those are harder to come by... But there are more than a few guys on here with so many hats that I'm not sure they actually ever get to wear or even appreciate them and they may be willing to part with one in great shape for a reasonable price (won't be a steal but would be fair). And they do come up on eBay and other sites, they just tend to be a little more expensive.

My recommendation would be to try to find some in your size and buy a few to try things out. Spend some time researching the brand here and how to figure out the era the hat might come from using the clues people talk about here and aim for some from the 1950s and earlier. For the price of one of those hats you could potentially get 5-15 hats to experiment and learn with (and sell on the ones you don't like without losing much money).

I get the desire to have something *now* so by all means if you have the kind of disposable income where you can drop that kind of money to figure out what you like I guess go for it, but I think with a little patience you will be able to score a bunch of hats and experience the joy of the hunt and the thrill of finding some gems (or go to some less luxury name brand hatters and get 2-3 hats for the price of one to experiment) and have more to choose from when you want to throw one on your noggin.

My $0.02 anyway.

 

[Judgmentalist]

Yeah I get what you are saying. It’s pretty much the same with everything I’m interested in - you get 90% of the value for 50% of the money but that last 10% will cost you if you are crazy enough to spend it.

For what it’s worth, I’m kinda sorta doing all the things. I’ve got a couple vintage hats coming, I’m planning on ordering probably 2-3 custom hats from somebody on here, and I’m daydreaming about the fancy ones lol. We will see how it goes lol.

We all have disposable income. We are buying things that are inherently unnecessary - some of us are buying 90 of em. I’m jealous of those dudes.

Everybody says “if you have that kind of money” but it’s really just a matter of priorities. I like to say I can do what I want, I just have to do one thing a time lol.

The research is the fun part to me; I’ve never been much of a collector, or real big on hunting for deals. My wife is amazing at it though. I fully expect her to start showing up with thrift store hats once she starts watching for them.

The being a larger size thing is super annoying. I know of three beautiful vintage hats I want right now that won’t fit me. I’m keeping my eyes open. Thanks for the advice.

 

[blewnote]

Yeah I get what you are saying. It’s pretty much the same with everything I’m interested in - you get 90% of the value for 50% of the money but that last 10% will cost you if you are crazy enough to spend it.

For sure, and I'd add that sometimes you're not even getting that last 10%, you're just paying for the cachet. I admit full ignorance because I have never handled a Brent Black or Optimo hat, but I'd be willing to bet that a great vintage hat from even one of the lesser old manufacturers is as good as what they're offering (and perhaps in some cases better) because the base materials where so common at the time and there were still large numbers of people who demanded quality hats. I really should swing by Optimo the next time I'm in Chicago to check out their offerings, even if they're out of my price range.

We all have disposable income. We are buying things that are inherently unnecessary - some of us are buying 90 of em. I’m jealous of those dudes.

Everybody says “if you have that kind of money” but it’s really just a matter of priorities. I like to say I can do what I want, I just have to do one thing a time lol.

Of course, but priorities are one thing and financial ability is another. My point was more that for someone like myself, a musician, dropping $1200 on one hat is something that I'd have to think about and plan for, but $100 every now and then is no big deal. Similarly, someone working in finance or as a surgeon may consider a $10,000 purchase something to occasionally splurge on but a $1000 item something to not really think about. Without knowing anything about you I can't say where you stand, but jumping into hat wearing at the top end leads me to believe you "have that kind of money." Which is cool, but would allow you to spread it around even more finding some vintage treasures!

 

[Judgmentalist]

For sure, and I'd add that sometimes you're not even getting that last 10%, you're just paying for the cachet. I admit full ignorance because I have never handled a Brent Black or Optimo hat, but I'd be willing to bet that a great vintage hat from even one of the lesser old manufacturers is as good as what they're offering (and perhaps in some cases better) because the base materials where so common at the time and there were still large numbers of people who demanded quality hats. I really should swing by Optimo the next time I'm in Chicago to check out their offerings, even if they're out of my price range.




Of course, but priorities are one thing and financial ability is another. My point was more that for someone like myself, a musician, dropping $1200 on one hat is something that I'd have to think about and plan for, but $100 every now and then is no big deal. Similarly, someone working in finance or as a surgeon may consider a $10,000 purchase something to occasionally splurge on but a $1000 item something to not really think about. Without knowing anything about you I can't say where you stand, but jumping into hat wearing at the top end leads me to believe you "have that kind of money." Which is cool, but would allow you to spread it around even more finding some vintage treasures!

Nah I don’t have that type of money, and I haven’t bought anything on that end yet, I’m just crazy.

 

[One Drop]

Nah I don’t have that type of money, and I haven’t bought anything on that end yet, I’m just crazy.

I'd start with a vintage or used Panama or so, to dial in what works best for you. Then go foa blow-out Grail purchase once you have dialed it in. Because you can resell those without losing much money, or keep them for variety's sake of you like them in spite of not being 'perfect'.

 

[Sanders07]

Just out of curiosity, has anyone spoken with Brent recently? I would love another hat by him if he is still in business

 

[belfastboy]

Just out of curiosity, has anyone spoken with Brent recently? I would love another hat by him if he is still in business

Have you checked his webpage?

 

[Sanders07]

Have you checked his webpage?

Yeah, everything seems to be up and running like always and you can make orders on it it looks like