Brag about your blends!

[Stan]

Hi,

There's part of the problem: Lots of these hats have a marking scheme of X's on them - and they seem to only mean something within the brand, and maybe only within the *model*. Then - if that's not bad enough, the reference changes with time to boot!

Marketing, indeed!

So, how to compare? Measure thickness, pliability, shapeability, softness or what? I guess that's all we can do, since I can't think of any way to *know* what's in there, except for one.....

As far as finding out the mixture, we actually *can* do this. All you have to do is ruin a few hats. Cut out a few square inches of felt from areas around the hat, pull out the fibers, and see what critter's DNA is in there. Probably only cost $100k per hat - and then we'd know the answer to life, the universe and everything.

Or, we could just wear the hats we like and say that the answer is: 42! lol

I'd love to know how all this works, but am prepared to forever be in the dark. Sigh.

It's Weekend Time!

Later!

Stan

 

[feltfan]

I don't think they are better than modern beaver. They ARE better than modern rabbit/hare bodies, and I think a lot of that was due to the mercuric nitrate used in the felting process. Modern rabbit bodies don't seem to felt as tightly and just cannot finish off as well as vintage. However, I don't think that explains all of it, as mercuric nitrate was outlawed here in the U.S. on Dec. 1, 1941, but hats made later than that still have a nice felt. Perhaps it's just a technique or something that's been lost along the way.

Okay, no opinions, but I do have a question.

Anyone know when the use of mercuric nitrate was
banned in Italy, if it was?

You can see where I'm going with this...

 

[jimmy the lid]

I think it's valid to compare a modern beaver with a vintage rabbit

Without being facetious, I tend to look at them as two different animals... It goes without saying that there are some outstanding rabbit vintage felts -- felts that feel dense and smooth and that hold up to the elements. Incredible lids in their own right. But a pure beaver lid, modern or vintage, is just a whole other experience.

A rabbit-beaver blend tends to take a rabbit felt and then moves it in the direction of a beaver felt in terms of feel and texture -- but at less cost than pure beaver. I just received a 3X Stetson (probably mid-50's), and to my mind, it certainly seems to be a blend. You can feel some of the smoothness and denseness that I associate with pure beaver. From a sales point of view, I think that such a blend provided a way to give the consumer a bit of the quality of a beaver lid, but in a more affordable package.

But, to address the original premise of this thread, I think that it is generally hard to determine the extent to which any given felt is comprised of a blend. It would be interesting to hear from Loungers who have lids that they know to be blends...

Cheers,
JtL

 

[Brad Bowers]

You can see where I'm going with this...

Yeah, I'd wondered the same thing. Maybe I can dig up an answer.

Brad

 

[Spellflower]

Sure, they're different animals, but, like pork and beef, they both serve the same purpose.

I guess what I'm saying is, why not compare apples to oranges, as long as you are aware that's what you're doing?

Yes, a rabbit hat's never going to feel like a beaver hat, but... how does a vintage rabbit hat compare to a beaver hat in terms of shapability, moisture-resistance, durability, taper-resistance, etc.? I don't see why this is an invalid comparison to make. Clearly the point has not been laid to rest.

Heck, I can remember a thread from a few years back in which Matt Deckard debated Steve Delk on the subject, and it was suggested that we hang a vintage hat next to an AB on a pole in the mountains for a year, and see which one had tapered the least.

To my knowledge, that never happened, so why stop talking about it?

 

[Spellflower]

Yeah, I'd wondered the same thing. Maybe I can dig up an answer.

Brad

If anyone can do it, you can, Brad!

 

[indycop]

It's blend boasting time, brought to you by my grandfather's old custom blend, a tan stingybrim with a wide black ribbon made of beaver and rabbit wrought in 1959, courtesy of Peter Bros., my first real hat... no taper yet.

Any pic's? I am a fan of Peters Bros. and would really like to see an old one!

 

[jimmy the lid]

I guess what I'm saying is, why not compare apples to oranges, as long as you are aware that's what you're doing?...why stop talking about it?

Not saying that it's invalid to compare. Not saying to stop talking about it. Am saying that when I do compare them, I come out with Art and Brad.

Cheers,
JtL

 

[barrowjh]

I visited Winchester Hat Corp a few months back - makers of hat bodies for many (if not most) of the independent hatters in the U.S. One thing that surprised me quite a bit was the simple fact that there is no 'pure' felt of any one fur; 'all the same' fur will not felt. So, pure is always the felter's version of maximum.

They would not reveal the exact proportion of rabbit that is added to enable the beaver fur to felt, of course they have a legitimate need to keep some things secret, I understand that. However, it brings up some obvious questions - if 'all the same' fur will not felt, then, is a felter's 'pure beaver' a weaker felt than a 50/50 blend?

I suspect that the 'maximum' blend has enough of other fur to felt and earn its reputation amongst hatters that will be stretching it over blocks, sanding on it, et cet. Also, the beaver may be a more durable fur than the rabbit, such that after the hatter has blended in a certain minimum to enable felting, additional rabbit beyond that point may only weaken the felt.

 

[tinmanzzz]

Possibly Waaaay off Base...

While we are on this subject, I have always "FELT" that in the Good Old Days, Hats were regularly cleaned and reblocked. It was as common as taking a overcoat to the cleaners. I believe this constant working of the felt would give it qualities different from todays Hats. (To reblock my hats I must mail the 500 miles, pay $30 to $50 and wait over 2 weeks. How often will I do that?? )
Hats in the old days were as common to a man as his shoes (Always remember, when removing you shoe to grip it by the sides and pull gently )
Oh well, just my thoughts
ps most blends are "Trade secerts!!!!!)

 

[Spatterdash]

So...





Those of you who certainly have blends, like Optimos or early Adventurebilts or Camptowns, wanna brag about your hat, tell us why you like it?

Indycop, I'd love to show it to you. It is currently in the care of my brother, who is stationed overseas at the moment. I saw it at Christmas and it still looked good, though I'm not sure how many downpours it has seen in it's lifetime. I never wore it in bad weather. He may have, and I know Grandad walked in the rain sometimes to the drug store.
It's a good idea, though. I'll see if I can't get him to snap a couple of decent shots (including the liner) when he gets the chance.

 

[jpdesign]

It is my understanding that mercury was banned world wide in the early 40's.

As far as blends go, I have one body that is beaver and mink, and one that is beaver and chinchilla. They both feel different for pure beaver as well as each other. They are one of a kinds as they are six once bodies that have no stiffner.

The chinchilla and mink are both smaller than beaver. These fibers fill in the space between the beaver furs, making a more solid felt.

In the fifties a 10x was a pure beaver.

Jimmy

 

[indycop]

I have my almost 1 year old PB custom Indy but I assume its all rabbit, and wouldn't be able to tell if it was a blend:eusa_doh:

 

[HarpPlayerGene]

Recently a guy listed some hats on eBay. Among them was a real nice vintage number which had been chewed by his cat! Holes and gouges in the crown and brim. I e-mailed him to say he should make a hat out of that cat! He sent me a note back that it had crossed his mind but that a cat ahir hat would probably shed.
lol