Bovine leather grain question

[Monitor]

Why is it that some cowhide (or steerhide) is grainy while other is completely smooth?

For example, Horween steer Aero is using rarely shows any grain (from what I've seen), ditto for Schott cow/steer, while Fox Creek jackets are grainy all over. Perhaps this is a basic question but it's just something I never quite understood.

 

[Grayland]

I'm sure someone much more knowledgeable about leather will chime in, but I understand it that the chromexcel tanning process kind of plumps up the leather with fats, etc. and that maybe that eliminates the grain?

 

[Seb Lucas]

Doesn't Schott use hides that have been rolled to flatten the hide and grain? Not everyone likes grain and I know Japanese leather fans prefer the flat finish. I have to say I'm probably the odd person out here as I prefer flat hide myself.

 

[Sloan1874]

I thought it was down to a cosmetic 'pressing' process. which also includes the glazing that's applied to HH and Steer - saw it at Horween.

 

[Monitor]

Seb Lucas - Had no idea they do that. But Schott hide had always been smooth, even before the Japanese leather craze. I've heard that their so called Steerhide is in fact a somewhat lower grade version of their premium hide, which gets heavier top coating. Come to think of it, Schott Naked Cowhide sometimes does display some grain.

Sloan - I see. So it actually starts out grainy? I wonder why the cosmetic smoothing. I guess people prefer the flat finish to match with the other leather apparel that's almost exclusively made with smooth(ed) hide (shoes, boots, bags, belts, etc.), I do too, but...
...adding artificial grain to a low grade leather is also a cosmetic process, so that the skin would appear genuine, yet I don't think I've seen such grainy cowhide on premium leather jackets, other than on Fox Creek and Vanson Firenze leather.

 

[AdeeC]

I always thought that the pebble like grainy steerhide finish is a characteristic of bullhide. Apparently the skin around under the Bulls throat is also very grainy. Perhaps someone with more knowledge could expand or discount this. I guess it can be faked too or maybe some breeds are more prone to this.

 

[Lean'n'mean]

Without getting bogged down in specific leather manufacturers & the methods they use I will stick with generalities. Cow/steer leather grain does vary enormously from hide to hide. Also depending on the area of the animal, the grain varies. For example shoulder & butt leather, which is the strongest, has very little textured grain, belts, shoes, holsters, sheaths etc. are usually made from butt or shoulder. The belly leather has a very marked, uneven grain, you will often see this type used on sleeves in mediocre jackets as it is softer & very 'stretchy' (& cheaper) but less durable than leather higher up on the hide.
There is also the selecting of hides, as various manufacturers prefer to use only one type of leather in their products, i.e. grainy or smooth.
Not forgetting 'corrected grain' leather which some pass off as full grain, involves sanding the grain smooth & then applying either a pigment or artifical surface.

Having a regular, noticible or pebble grain on genuine full grain leather is not a sign of inferiority, on the contrary.

The best way to check if leather is full grain or has been 'doctored' in some way, is to look at it with a strong magnifying glass in good light.

 

[eugenesque]

I always thought that pebbled grain was distinctly goat leather but the tanning process and the part of the animal which the leather was obtained from makes a difference.

 

[Peacoat]

I think some of the manufacturers use hides that have been pressed to give that pebble finish, as Sloan mentioned above. Fox Creek may be one of them. I know that my Fox Creek has a heavily pebbled texture. The technique was also used on cowhide in the G-1 after goat was no longer specified in the contract. It had a smaller pebbled finish, designed to mimic the goat jackets.

 

[nick123]

I think cow can be processed to look like just about anything. I recall being struck at how some lamb jackets could be mistaken for cow when I visited Johnson Leathers.

 

[navetsea]

I think both examples are full grain, however the horween is more waxed and pressed to show more even surface, but I still can see the natural grain there although very flattened.

the cowhide on mine is more or less the same with that foxcreek example, it is the natural grain of the beast, coarser grain on some areas, smaller /tighter grain on some, if the jacket is made from a specific area of the hide, then they would look more evenly grained, but since our local cow are smaller in size, even on the length of a sleeve I already see different grains on the lower and higher part of the sleeve.

I have seen pressed cowhide into another motives like fake croc, fake snake, they tend to look very plastic, I suspect they use smooth sanded top grain leather for that with a thick top coat, not something I would choose. I also have a very cheap combat boots made of cowhide but a sanded one and then painted, so the texture is like a coated flesh/ roughout, it is very durable still and hard to break in since the coating.

 

[Superfluous]

Full grain, uncorrected, unpressed hides from the exact same tannery/manufacturer can vary dramatically. I have seen hides that are described as exactly the same, but they are very different in appearance. I do not have an authoritative explanation for this, but I imagine it has something to do with breeds, genetics and unique life experiences. In other words, an animal's hide develops unique character based on the particular breed, genes and unique life experiences of that particular animal. For example, there are several hundred different breeds of horses, and I suspect there are differences in hide characteristics among different breeds. Moreover, I suspect the hide of a wild horse or a work horse develops differently from the hide of a stable horse or an inactive horse. Was the horse exposed to harsh elements / environmental surroundings, or was it protected. Varying exposure to sun is likely a factor. Diet may be a factor. The net net is that hide variations are inevitable, even among full grain, uncorrected, unpressed hides from the exact same tannery/manufacturer.

 

[Monitor]

Nave, I remember you telling me your jacket is a heavy full grain leather, yet it doesn't resemble any of the stuff we see from well known makers. I have a high-end jacket too that's heavily pebbled, and the booklet that came with it claims the jacket has been made from a 100% natural full grain, vegetable tanned cowhide.

Fox Creek claims to be using full grain leather, too. Not top grain, which would explain the pebbled surface on their gear, but the supposedly uncorrected stuff. Okay. But I still find it hard to believe that these two jackets are made from the exact same species of animal:

http://40.media.tumblr.com/ab5012215308adf10596a7cd495ca4c5/tumblr_mx4hgrAxZW1shsc4no3_1280.jpg
http://vtwinbiker.com/Fox_Creek_/Dry2.jpg

One of these hides had to have underwent some kind of extensive processing, which makes me wonder just how far can the term 'full grain' be stretched.

On the other hand, it could be what you say, Super; even different hides from the same tannery can vary, and naturally, different leather garments makers have preferences for different types of leather. I can imagine that Schott would specifically request smooth hides from their tannery, same as, judging by the photos online, Fox Creek goes with the pebbled ones. That would explain some things but the difference is still... suspiciously substantial.

Which, provided it's the case, makes me wonder, why exactly is the smooth leather is more in demand that the grainy sort.

(By the way, image searching for Langlitz leathers reveals them to be by far the most popular brand with the BLUF scene)

The belly leather has a very marked, uneven grain, you will often see this type used on sleeves in mediocre jackets as it is softer & very 'stretchy' (& cheaper) but less durable than leather higher up on the hide.

Thank you for the explanation, Lean'n'mean. Could I please see the example of this cheaper belly leather, as I'd like to know what to look for and what to avoid.