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Borsalino Quality

JMRF

New in Town
Messages
4
Location
Montreal
First off let me state that I'm a real newbie to fine hats and this forum.

I was born a collector and have collected many things, hat's being my latest focus. My other notable collections are of timepieces and fountain pens. In the watch world most people bash Rolex. Similarly in the fountain pen domain many bash Montblanc. In both these cases, these companies products have risen to the top of the popularity chart and are priced accordingly. Again, with respect to pens and watches, the connoisseurs pick apart Rolex and Montblanc for every little fault regardless of the true consequences of that design choice. For example: Rolex continues to use stamped steel clasps on many of their watch bracelets. Many are quick to point out that for the money you pay to get one, it should be machined like the products from lesser companies. Many ignore the fact that this design has worked well for the last 40+ years. I myself have never had a problem with mine and I appreciate the unchanged history of the design.

Dare i say, it's almost like some sort of jealousy.

Now, getting to Borsalino. I often hear bad things about them on this forum. But it's rarely quantified. "Junk" is a term often used. I won't argue that they are too expensive. (My first good hat was a Borsalino Safari and you wouldn't believe what i paid for it!:eusa_doh: ) Is it a similar pick-them-apart-because-they're-at-the-top mentality or are there reasons that make them junk? A vintage Borsalino that i just received off of the bay has a silk liner, a soft leather sweatband, and thick soft felt. In contrast my Safari doesn't have a liner or a leather sweatband, and the felt is thin and flexible. It seems very well built though and is much more comfortable on warmer days then the vintage hat. All in all it was expensive but my untrained eye can't find the "Junk". What am i missing?
 
Messages
10,933
Location
My mother's basement
Believe me, my opinion of modern Borsalinos is based on experience (and expense) I would just as soon have been spared. I own several, which I bought either for myself (before I knew better) or received as gifts. Some I have routinely worn in weather conditions that would have deleterious effects on just about any hat, and others I have babied. I am currently in the process of extensively refurbishing a couple of them -- stripping, cleaning, blocking, installing new sweatbands and ribbons, etc. I may even turn one of them inside out, because the color on its original outside surface is so faded.

I also own a few vintage Borsalinos. So yeah, I don't think I'm talking out of school when I say that modern Borsalinos are, in general, not the hat buyer's best value. I don't call them junk, but I do believe that the company is riding on its name and the reputation it won back when it made a better product. (Those old ones really are fine hats.)

It has been noted (accurately, I'd say) that modern factory-made hats in general aren't what they were half a century and more ago, so picking on Borsalino hardly seems fair. But the Borsalinos are generally more expensive (quite a bit more, often) than most other big brand hats. But, you know, they sure do look good when they're new, there in the case at the hat shop. That's what got me to buy them.

The comparison to Rolex watches and such might not be the best one in this case. The quality of materials and workmanship in the Borsalinos of old and the modern ones is quite different, and you're telling me that isn't the case with the Rolex watches.
 

AlanC

My Mail is Forwarded Here
Messages
3,175
Location
Heart of America
You'll find quite a few fans of vintage Borsalinos on the forum, and even a few of modern ones. Honestly, I have no experience with modern Borsalinos, but with the consistent reviews they've gotten here I'm not willing to risk my dollars on them when I can find other, more sure options. I do really like my vintage Borsalino, though. Wish I had more.
 

TheManInTheHat

One of the Regulars
Messages
161
Location
Hong Kong
You'll find quite a few fans of vintage Borsalinos on the forum, and even a few of modern ones. Honestly, I have no experience with modern Borsalinos, but with the consistent reviews they've gotten here I'm not willing to risk my dollars on them when I can find other, more sure options. I do really like my vintage Borsalino, though. Wish I had more.

I just found this little thread and have the same feeling as AlanC, for what it's worth.
 
Messages
10,840
Location
vancouver, canada
This is an interesting thread to resurrect. I have 7 Borsalinos, from the late forties, into the seventies, and one from the late eighties and one from the mid nineties. I am pleased with all of them, the felt is very good quality throughout all 7. Even the hat from the mid nineties, a Guiseppe I picked up at JJ Hats in NY. It is just a narrow brimmed knockabout hat for me but the felt is wonderfully soft. I have looked at new Borsa's and the felt quality while okay is not a match for any of my "vintage" Borsa's. They still look to be decent hats but for the price point they are asking it seems to me there are better values to be had in the marketplace. Especially if you go custom made. I actually like the felt of my eighties and nineties Borsa's as much or more as the older ones from the forties and fifties.
 

Jeremiah

A-List Customer
Messages
368
Location
Montana
I have two. Dating from around late 50s to 60s. The felt is thick like a modern rabbit hat body. Yet the feel is like velvet and chamois cloth. Was this their standard finish? I don't think it's velour finish as the nap is short and it's very dense.
Just wondering.
 

Bob Roberts

I'll Lock Up
Messages
11,201
Location
milford ct
This is an interesting thread to resurrect. I have 7 Borsalinos, from the late forties, into the seventies, and one from the late eighties and one from the mid nineties. I am pleased with all of them, the felt is very good quality throughout all 7. Even the hat from the mid nineties, a Guiseppe I picked up at JJ Hats in NY. It is just a narrow brimmed knockabout hat for me but the felt is wonderfully soft. I have looked at new Borsa's and the felt quality while okay is not a match for any of my "vintage" Borsa's. They still look to be decent hats but for the price point they are asking it seems to me there are better values to be had in the marketplace. Especially if you go custom made. I actually like the felt of my eighties and nineties Borsa's as much or more as the older ones from the forties and fifties.
Your last statement makes me feel good as I just purchased a early 90's Alessandria from Aureliano.
 
Messages
17,489
Location
Maryland
Hare is used mostly for long hair finishes specifically Velour. Hare produces the finest long hair finishes (yes better than Beaver) but it's difficult to felt. I am not sure if Borsalino was making Hare based felts in the 1990s. They may have been sourcing from FEPSA (who benefited greatly by Mayser Ulm machinery and know how post late 1980s which is a little known fact). I know they are sourcing long hair finished felts from FEPSA today.

I am actually working on a translation of a thesis (German 1929) on fur types used for felt hats.

Side note: The only suitable Hare (finest being the Saxon variety) came from Europe. There were big problems sourcing Hare fur during war times. Same with Rabbit fur (domestic and wild) which was sourced from Australia and Europe.
 
Last edited:
Messages
10,840
Location
vancouver, canada
I have two. Dating from around late 50s to 60s. The felt is thick like a modern rabbit hat body. Yet the feel is like velvet and chamois cloth. Was this their standard finish? I don't think it's velour finish as the nap is short and it's very dense.
Just wondering.
I have a funky forest green Borsa velour that my wife has commandeered. I never wore it as the colour is too "out there". But I bought it cheaply off Ebay just to see what a Borsa velour felt like. It has almost a velvet quality to the look and feel. It is very very different from my other Borsas which as you state are more chamois like.
 
Messages
17,489
Location
Maryland
I haven't come across a pre WWII Borsalino Velour. I have catalog photos of other Italian maker Velours but they don't appear to have luster / plush look of the finest Austrian and German pre WWII Velour. I am not sure they used the same hot wet brush methods (manual or mechnized) used in Austria and Germany. Everything changes once you get into the 1950s.
 

Jeremiah

A-List Customer
Messages
368
Location
Montana
image.jpeg
Can some one post a pic of a velour finished vintage borsa?
I am guessing the nap is higher or longer haired? Mine look like velour?
 

joli160

New in Town
Messages
9
Just received my Fedora hat last friday, Borsalino Beaver Fur from Hollandhats. ( Great shop ) Really pleased and it looks beautifully made. How it will hold up only time will tell but I see nor feel any quality issues.

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