Borsalino Dating: Just the Facts, Ma'am

[jamespowers]

Is there any reason NOT to believe that the first two can be determined by the first two digits of the second number in the serial?

So that would make them 1938 by the 38 number? Impossible due to the plastic in the topper. Plastic is a 1940s thing after WWII. Therefore we know in this case that this number is not a date code. [huh]
I think we found out that this only works for the hats made after the 1970s. Besdor would be able to confirm that though.

Regards,

J

 

[Visigoth]

But surely this oilcloth is *not* plastic. There are all sorts of pre-plastic substances which have a plastic-like feel.

 

[jamespowers]

But surely this oilcloth is *not* plastic. There are all sorts of pre-plastic substances which have a plastic-like feel.

I am sure it is a type of plastic. Before that, they just had plain silk liners without the plastic topper--in my experience anyway. [huh] Borsalino came into using those materials late due to WWII. Legend has it that the factory was nearly destroyed during the war. They weren't producing many hats for export during those years that is for sure.

Regards,

J

 

[Visigoth]

Well...

As far as I can tell, the material is the same as what's used to cover the sticker in squid's hat, which we deem to be from the thirties:

http://thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=11332

I removed this material (I have the same hat) -- it's unevenly and lightly glued down, and seems to be meant for removal -- and it isn't any kind of plastic I've encountered: it has a fine weave, and you can tear it in a perfect line. It seems to be some kind of oiled silk.

 

[feltfan]

I removed this material (I have the same hat) -- it's unevenly and lightly glued down, and seems to be meant for removal -- and it isn't any kind of plastic I've encountered: it has a fine weave, and you can tear it in a perfect line. It seems to be some kind of oiled silk.

I doubt it's meant for removal. So many old Borsalinos
have this stuff. Probably the glue aged.

 

[BellyTank]

Plastic liners.

Sorry if I've missed out on something...just poking my nose in...
...but re: plastic hat liners- celluloid was used long before any type of 'plastic', or vinyl. And we know that celluloid is very, very old 'plastic' indeed.

There are a lot of old hats out there with celluloid liners.

Have a happy day!

B
T

 

[squid]

I found this liner on ebay today. I have no idea how old it is, but thought I would submit it for comments/reference.



This hat had a brown sweatband with "Original House" and white cloth size tag with blue box and 7 1/8.

 

[Visigoth]

Interesting! Now *that*, to me, looks like a fifties plastic liner -- it's certainly *very* different from the yellowish stuff we've been discussing.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

exactly. the yellowish stuff is distinctly different. A bit like very fine cheesecloth: obviously woven. With a waxy feeling. At least that's what mine are like.

bk

 

[Tony in Tarzana]

That's how they are on my Homburgs.

 

[DOUGLAS]

Most of my borsalinos have that same type of liner. I have found that this kind when it is dead becomes very brittle and will crumble at the touch.I just won this one and it has the same type.http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=180021207548&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=008

 

[Tony in Tarzana]

Wow, what a score! :eusa_clap

 

[DOUGLAS]

The seller sent it to me super fast. I was impressed and very pleased since I hate waiting.The hat is in great shape although I wish it had a taller crown,buy hell there is always room for another Borsalino.

 

[moustache]

Mens Hats book

How old is very old?



I have posted pictures of Superiore, Extra Superiore, Extra Extra Superiore,
and Suprema quality Borsalinos. Others have posted hats with different
rankings. Borsalino also used an "X" system at some point (the 1950s
would be my guess).

It is my observation, based on the few hats I own and some I have seen here
that Borsalino was not immune to the changes in felt quality and style
over the years. Mind you, I'd fall all over myself for a good 70s Borsalino.
But I'd eat that 70s Borsalino for a quality 30s Borsalino. What I'm
saying is, quality ranking by itself may not be of much use either as
an indication of age or *relative* quality.

Personally, I'd go with blocking style, ribbon style, liner, and
sweat band. Borsalino felt, until the end, was always disarmingly nice.

Does everyone have a copy of "Men's Hats (Bella Cosa Library)" from
Chronicle Books by Campione? That's the closest thing to a guide to
Borsalino styles I know, incomplete though it is...

I'm just now making my way to this thread,being the newbie.I have this book on my shelf right here and it is a delightful volume.Correct,it is incomplete.But the photos are very nice.I wish someone had a more current and up-to-date Borsalino history/date book.

JD

 

[Steinbockhase]

I recall reading once that when the fur trade was opened up in North America, the best beaver fur came from beaver robes certain tribes of Indian wore. One reason was most of the guard hair had fallen off, and the other may very well have been that these robes were aged.

I think I read the same article.
Wearing the beaver pelts for a whole season not only aged them with time and constant movement; more important was the body sweat from the wearer, which cured the fur before further process.
After these kind of pre-cured pelts became rare (and to save time) they started with "carroting".
So if you are a real enthusiast, you could get yourself some fresh beaver pelts, wear them 24/7 for a view months (do not bath or shower!) and them give them to your trusted felter.