Boot makers with the best leather selection and clicking?

[TacoBael]

I'm asking this as someone who has no idea.
Is completely handmade really always better?
I would say no. Consistent quality has certainly improved with the use of machines. Just think of sewing machines, which ensure consistent thread tension, deliver uniform stitching, etc. Not that an artist can't do that too, but is it better? And I'd rather wait three months for something than 27 months just because it's hand-sewn.
At least for me personally, whether it's handmade or machine-made is only a psychological factor. Of course, the brain plays a role in this, and even if I had two absolutely identical products, one made by hand and one made by machine, I would still value the handmade one more. Completely irrational ;-)
Objectively speaking, it shouldn't make any difference.

I can't speak to every indo maker but I know for a fact (and they have a LOT of reels showcasing this on ig) that most of the well known ones exclusively hand stitch the outsoles (briselblack, sagara, fortis, midas/winson, kiattoko, jakkrabbits etc).

Goodyear welting with a canvas rib is objectively mush worst than handwelting.
The canvas rib that the welt is sewn to in goodyear welting is being hold on exclusively by glue and after a while most are separated from the outsole.

I must have gotten confused with clinch, they are really mostly hand made

The stitchdown podcast discusses this a few times with different makers in a few different episodes and I have many examples of both. There is no notable difference in durability between handwelting or GYW and the only real difference that is noted is that handwelting tends to yield a more flexible sole. I believe you have other people replying in this thread saying the same thing.

There is also no benefit to hand sewing outsoles on, which actually yields more inconsistent results than using a landis stitching machine, which is why Clinch and Role Club ( I have asked Brian this in person myself and watched Minoru speak about this in videos) both do not hand sew their outsoles on.

 

[TacoBael]

As someone who owns more than three dozens of goodyear welted shoes and boots and only two pairs of handwelted oxfords (vass shoes) the main difference I find is indeed the flexibility of the soles as my vass are out of the box quite more flexible than my already broken in crockett n jones, carmina or aldens.

this is what i have read and heard time and time again and noticed myself, flexibility is the notable difference between GYW and handwelting.

 

[Tomalf]

The stitchdown podcast discusses this a few times with different makers in a few different episodes and I have many examples of both. There is no notable difference in durability between handwelting or GYW and the only real difference that is noted is that handwelting tends to yield a more flexible sole. I believe you have other people replying in this thread saying the same thing.

There is also no benefit to hand sewing outsoles on, which actually yields more inconsistent results than using a landis stitching machine, which is why Clinch and Role Club ( I have asked Brian this in person myself and watched Minoru speak about this in videos) both do not hand sew their outsoles on.

I don't know who said it in the stitchdown podcast but this is straight up wrong.

If you ever replaced the outsoles on a gyw boot or watched a video of a cobbler doing that you can see that a large percentage of the time the canvas rib that the welt is sewn onto is separated from the insole

 

[TacoBael]

I don't know who said it in the stitchdown podcast but this is straight up wrong.

If you ever replaced the outsoles on a gyw boot or watched a video of a cobbler doing that you can see that a large percentage of the time the canvas rib that the welt is sewn onto is separated from the insole

You've got numerous people disagreeing with you in this thread.

 

[Tomalf]

You've got numerous people disagreeing with you in this thread.

Which by what they wrote never took a gyw boot apart.
From personal experience I personally saw it happen in several pairs (grant stone, skob, quan shoemaker) and I know several well known cobblers see it a lot in their day to day work(bedo's leatherworks, oldspeed mfg, trenton and heath, dimar shoe repair).

I don't get why it's not obvious that something that is held up only by glue is less durable than a curved insole that the welt is stitched directly onto

 

[MrProper]

I don't get why it's not obvious that something that is held up only by glue is less durable than a curved insole that the welt is stitched directly onto

That certainly depends on the glue.
Body parts on cars and aeroplanes are glued, and I once glued a roof rack to the roof of my car. The metal is more likely to tear than the adhesive to give way. I don't know if that's the case with shoes. But I've never had a sole come off a good shoe. That's why I asked, when is strong strong enough? If something lasts forever, there's no point in reinforcing it so that it lasts twice as long. You can do it, but what for?

 

[cbez]

Even if the gemming glue fails, you are still stitched to your welt and outsole. Also when you do see gemming detach it is usually in a small section only.

Acting like all gemmed gyw are just waiting to explode is silly.

Can you share any examples of it actually causing wearability issues as opposed to smth cobbler sees when disassembling?

No one is arguing that handwelting isn't more durable, just that GYW is durable enough. It's like a solid steel door vs a wood door.

 

[philli]

I guess while we're on this topic, this was a good read
https://stridewise.com/goodyear-welt-vs-hand-welt/

 

[ABCD]

Which by what they wrote never took a gyw boot apart.

I have taken GYW shoes apart. I get your point, in theory hand welts are stronger. Probably in practice too but like @MrProper said, when is strong strong enough?

I have been wearing GYW shoes for three decades and never once did one fall apart because of the canvas rib separating from the insole.

My shoe, taken apart.

 

[Tomalf]

That certainly depends on the glue.
Body parts on cars and aeroplanes are glued, and I once glued a roof rack to the roof of my car. The metal is more likely to tear than the adhesive to give way. I don't know if that's the case with shoes. But I've never had a sole come off a good shoe. That's why I asked, when is strong strong enough? If something lasts forever, there's no point in reinforcing it so that it lasts twice as long. You can do it, but what for?

I have taken GYW shoes apart. I get your point, in theory hand welts are stronger. Probably in practice too but like @MrProper said, when is strong strong enough?

I have been wearing GYW shoes for three decades and never once did one fall apart because of the canvas rib separating from the insole.

My shoe, taken apart.
View attachment 752408

I never said gyw wasn't a good construction method, just that it has point of failure that hand welt doesn't.
When the gemming separates the cork can go underneath it and cause discomfort

 

[Tomalf]

Even if the gemming glue fails, you are still stitched to your welt and outsole. Also when you do see gemming detach it is usually in a small section only.

Acting like all gemmed gyw are just waiting to explode is silly.

Can you share any examples of it actually causing wearability issues as opposed to smth cobbler sees when disassembling?

No one is arguing that handwelting isn't more durable, just that GYW is durable enough. It's like a solid steel door vs a wood door.
View attachment 752407

The stitchdown podcast discusses this a few times with different makers in a few different episodes and I have many examples of both. There is no notable difference in durability between handwelting or GYW and the only real difference that is noted is that handwelting tends to yield a more flexible sole. I believe you have other people replying in this thread saying the same thing.

There is also no benefit to hand sewing outsoles on, which actually yields more inconsistent results than using a landis stitching machine, which is why Clinch and Role Club ( I have asked Brian this in person myself and watched Minoru speak about this in videos) both do not hand sew their outsoles on.

Some people do argue there isn't a durability difference.
Goodyear welt is a great construction method for making resolable shoes in a factoey but when the gemming separates from the insole the cork can spread under the welt and cause discomfort.
Stridewise had a video with mr oldspeed who is a great cobbler and bootmaker where he spoke about it

 

[Harris HTM]

I have taken GYW shoes apart. I get your point, in theory hand welts are stronger. Probably in practice too but like @MrProper said, when is strong strong enough?

I have been wearing GYW shoes for three decades and never once did one fall apart because of the canvas rib separating from the insole.

My shoe, taken apart.
View attachment 752408

Is this a G&G Marc?

 

[cbez]

Some people do argue there isn't a durability difference.
Goodyear welt is a great construction method for making resolable shoes in a factoey but when the gemming separates from the insole the cork can spread under the welt and cause discomfort.
Stridewise had a video with mr oldspeed who is a great cobbler and bootmaker where he spoke about it

Right but can you find any examples of anyone who actually had this happen?

I've been in various boot communities over a decade. Seen a lot of boot issues, never seen a gemming failure actually cause wearability issues.

 

[ABCD]

Is this a G&G Marc?

I don't remember what they were, this was 15 years ago, but they're weren't g&g.

 

[LeeR]

I’ve always been satisfied with John Lofgren. However, might be outside price limit.

 

[philli]

Some people do argue there isn't a durability difference.
Goodyear welt is a great construction method for making resolable shoes in a factoey but when the gemming separates from the insole the cork can spread under the welt and cause discomfort.
Stridewise had a video with mr oldspeed who is a great cobbler and bootmaker where he spoke about it

How likely is this to happen? I have some GYW shoes in my regular rotation and never experienced any change in comfort. I feel like most of the nuanced durability concerns really only matter if you only wear one or two pairs year round and you’re actually doing work in them. I think most are satisfied with the “good enough” methods.

 

[philli]

I’ve always been satisfied with John Lofgren. However, might be outside price limit.

I know this is old news but I haven’t given lofgren any consideration after hearing about this from a friend

https://www.reddit.com/r/goodyearwelt/comments/k4lmhz

 

[LeeR]

I know this is old news but I haven’t given lofgren any consideration after hearing about this from a friend

I know this is old news but I haven’t given lofgren any consideration after hearing about this from a friend

https://www.reddit.com/r/goodyearwelt/comments/k4lmhz

I don’t have any idea what goes on in Instagram. I did , however, see JL issued an apology in 2020. Furthermore, I have no idea who the other shoe/bootmakers are. Perhaps if I did I would purchase from them. I can only speak to the guality of JL and am thoroughly satisfied.

 

[cbez]

The excuses never end lol

 

[philli]

Just thought I'd come in here and update but these are the briselblack boondockers i received. Either I lucked out or they got better with sizing but these fit perfect. Now I need to add a dark brown boot into the collection. I recently looked into lostboy and he has some great looking boots with intricate last shapes. His lead time is 4 months so i might give it a go