Terry- that is a handsome A-2 on the left. What make and hide is that?The Duke on top of the Pile. The Duke is in Victory HH.
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BK Liberty Hide Questions
- Thread starter Xopher
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Thedi's supposed to be the original maker of BK jackets.
Never had that happen to my Russet Waldo pepper, must of been an unfortunate one off i think.
Dickie Teenie
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Not a chance.
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tmitchell59
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That is a BK monarch a2 in Liberty horsehide size 44
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Mich486
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What’s up with BK? Why have they been put on the black book?
As a recent reader I was aware that SB doesn’t get much love but not BK.
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As a recent reader I was aware that SB doesn’t get much love but not BK.
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tmitchell59
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Bill Kelso 1930s Sears Hercules. Size 40, Liberty horsehide. Very little wear. This was the jacket they put on their website when they brought out this Edition. I've owned three other Sears replicas. This is my favorite.
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Mostly because of past arrogance, blaming some customers for problems with their service among other odd ramblings about how great they think they are.
If u ever consider selling that at some point, please keep me in mind.
ProteinNerd
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This just appeared on the BK facebook feed for me:
"Bill Kelso Mfg Few months ago, Bill Kelso Mfg appointed a renowned independent leather chemist in USA to do some lab tests to compare the quality of Liberty (Italian) horsehide against that of Shinki (Japanese) horsehide. As you may have already guessed, Liberty horsehide came out to be the WINNER of this contest as it was found to be in all respects a better leather. So for the first time, there is REAL expert and objective opinion that certifies and verifies beyond any doubt what we have been advising our customers all along. In case you have interest to read the whole report and see the photos of the microscope analysis, all you have to do is send us an email requesting the report. It will be emailed to you in private.
Furthermore, Liberty horsehide DOES NOT have vinyl/plastic appearance at all. Those are malevolent rumors spread by our competitors and their mouthpieces. If it did look or feel like vinyl, it would not have won the contest as above. In case you want to see with your own eyes, we will gladly send you samples free of any cost. Upon your request we will also send you Shinki samples to see which feels more like vinyl. Happy New Year."
Pretty typical BK PR, denigrate the competition and continually insist that liberty is the single best leather in the entire world.....whatever that means...who was this chemist and what was actually tested. Did anyone email them for the test results?
I'm sure BK make great jackets and I'm sure liberty is really nice but this continued insistence they are THE single best in the entire world is ridiculous, everyone has different wants....how can it possible be the best for someone that wants a thick bullet proof 4oz steerhide jacket? it aint 4oz leather, and it aint steerhide...
"Bill Kelso Mfg Few months ago, Bill Kelso Mfg appointed a renowned independent leather chemist in USA to do some lab tests to compare the quality of Liberty (Italian) horsehide against that of Shinki (Japanese) horsehide. As you may have already guessed, Liberty horsehide came out to be the WINNER of this contest as it was found to be in all respects a better leather. So for the first time, there is REAL expert and objective opinion that certifies and verifies beyond any doubt what we have been advising our customers all along. In case you have interest to read the whole report and see the photos of the microscope analysis, all you have to do is send us an email requesting the report. It will be emailed to you in private.
Furthermore, Liberty horsehide DOES NOT have vinyl/plastic appearance at all. Those are malevolent rumors spread by our competitors and their mouthpieces. If it did look or feel like vinyl, it would not have won the contest as above. In case you want to see with your own eyes, we will gladly send you samples free of any cost. Upon your request we will also send you Shinki samples to see which feels more like vinyl. Happy New Year."
Pretty typical BK PR, denigrate the competition and continually insist that liberty is the single best leather in the entire world.....whatever that means...who was this chemist and what was actually tested. Did anyone email them for the test results?
I'm sure BK make great jackets and I'm sure liberty is really nice but this continued insistence they are THE single best in the entire world is ridiculous, everyone has different wants....how can it possible be the best for someone that wants a thick bullet proof 4oz steerhide jacket? it aint 4oz leather, and it aint steerhide...
Leather chemist? Is there even such a thing, I could hire someone wearing leather underpants to write a report saying my leathers the best in the world as well, strange people
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The whole thing BK has going on is just plain weird.
Why would you bother doing stuff like that? Hiring supposed experts to weigh in some intrinsically subjective matter like leather preference?
They should stick to making great jackets and leave the quality of their work speak for themselves.
There’s no need to disparage competitors.
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Why would you bother doing stuff like that? Hiring supposed experts to weigh in some intrinsically subjective matter like leather preference?
They should stick to making great jackets and leave the quality of their work speak for themselves.
There’s no need to disparage competitors.
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Brettafett
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+1
Dr H
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Not going to get too involved in this one, but 'leather chemists' do exist. I have collaborative links with leather technologists at a respected university in India.
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Cowhide Dr H....
It seems to me that BK simply lacks the confidence to let the jackets speak for themselves. And as @ProteinNerd stated above, no matter how great they believe their HH is, it's puny compared to CXL.
nick123
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Superfluous
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This is actually a year old BK FB post (January 4, 2017) that BK placed at the top of its FB page a few days ago in direct response to this thread. More evidence of BK's profound obsession with this forum, and continued monitoring of the posts here.
I deal with supposed “experts” every day in my career and the fact that an expert supports the interests of the entity hiring the expert is thoroughly meaningless. I could hire an expert with impeccable qualifications to state that the world is flat, and he/she would make a compelling presentation in support of this objectively false premise. Just yesterday, I was interviewing experts concerning television industry accounting practices – these guys will say whatever benefits their client.
BK’s/Andy Falzon’s maniacal obsession with Shinki HH is well documented and, contrary to the findings of their self-serving purported "expert," BK/Andy hold Shinki HH is the highest esteem. Andy/BK wrote the following to me in private e-mails:
“A secret about Shinki, often not told, is that Shinki's leathers best match the leathers used on Vintage jackets. They achieved this because they tried to match the leathers appearance (and the Japanese are very good at that) to serve the local demand. In contrast, Italian and other tanneries never bothered to do that, they just sell whatever they produce and often resist to alter the specs.”
And:
“In reality, Chapman and Himel do have access to other leathers, including those used by BK, but they elect to pay more for Shinki because they believe in the virtues of Shinki leather. They have access to Liberty . . . they believe in the virtues of Shinki because Shinki is still the leader in the market. Everybody likes it. . . . We are now seriously considering stocking some Shinki too. I will let you know when it arrives.”
And:
“If we had no customs issues we’d be using Shinki too from day 1. For the same reasons GW and Himel did.”
BK's poorly conceived attacks on Shinki HH -- which are directly belied by BK's prior statements expressly exalting Shinki -- are consistent with BK's consistently inappropriate and outright despicable conduct. In particular, BK has also:
• Referred to homosexual men as “faggots” and stated that BK’s customers “aren’t faggots.”
• Openly and overtly disparaged Aero, Thurston Bros., John Chapman and Dave Himel with grossly inappropriate and unprofessional statements.
• Accused TB and Horween of false advertising.
• Threatened to sue several TFL members.
• Publicly disparaged several TFL members in particularly harsh terms.
• Misappropriated my personal photograph, put it on BK’s Facebook page, then refused my numerous requests to remove it.
The foregoing is the tip of the iceberg in terms of Andy’s and BK’s wildly unprofessional and reprehensible conduct that has led many here to refuse further patronage. The following two threads are instructive and worthwhile reading for anyone so interested:
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/bill-kelso-dark-seal-liberty-horse.81506/
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/new-bill-kelso-model.85854/
Andy, no need to send me another menacing e-mail (he sent his last missive to me on October 31, 2017).
Edward
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The Duke is a nice design; I've long liked the Plisskin jacket. The one in the film looked done to death; I think a version in the Horween battered steer would be a nice look without being as done as the original.
It's certainly rather more than I'd be prepared to spend given that it would buy me a couple of Aeros, Thedis, Lost worlds, or whatever and change left over. I'm guessing there must be somebody spending the money, though, or they wouldn't be able to charge it? Certainly seem to be nice jacket, just not for me - mix of price and other considerations. But then isn't that the joy of our niche at present - the variety. Don't care for one company, there's another will suit.
I think ,as has been said, it's just the case that the forum has moved on; BK aren't a popular brand round here for other reasons, so the price-hike that happened after that wasn't really an issue here. If many had decided BK wasn't for them, then the rise in price was immaterial.
It may also be that they're still doing significant offers; I seem to remember around the time the prices first shot up, they were offering direct customers deals like buy one get one half price and such, which would have dramatically reduced the per-unit price.
My main memory of that was that Andy was touting a soon-to-come Big Announcement about the "new owners" - I don't think it ever happened. Maybe it was American Classics as bought them out? I seem to recall having a lot of fun with all sorts of wild conspiracy theories - including it being Sandy Alexander buying them out in order to relaunch his AL/Simmons Bilt brand after the PR headache of the Lauder trial.
Both Thedi and BK were asked about that early on, and they denied all knowledge of each other's very existence. Which seemed odd in such a niche marketplace - them claiming not to have heard of each other, I mean - but there you go. I have a vague recollection that in the early days Andy said he worked for a larger company that was doing the BK brand as a new venture / sideline, having been around in the fashion world for many years, but I don't recall any more now.
Covered above....
THough my recollection was not that Andy was banned, but rather that BK chose to drop their affiliate thread and quit TFL because Andy did not care for the reception his approach to marketing garnered in these parts. I guess that makes sense - why hang around a place trying to sell to them if it's not a fertile marketplace?
As memory serves, BK were rather popular for a while with the VLJ crowd, in particular when they were more affordable and as Goodwear and ELC shot up in price beyond what many could / would spend. If price is a criterion in that way, of course, I suspect they might be less commonly spotted over there now too.
It's a similar approach the marketing, but taken to the Nth degree!
It's certainly rather more than I'd be prepared to spend given that it would buy me a couple of Aeros, Thedis, Lost worlds, or whatever and change left over. I'm guessing there must be somebody spending the money, though, or they wouldn't be able to charge it? Certainly seem to be nice jacket, just not for me - mix of price and other considerations. But then isn't that the joy of our niche at present - the variety. Don't care for one company, there's another will suit.
I think ,as has been said, it's just the case that the forum has moved on; BK aren't a popular brand round here for other reasons, so the price-hike that happened after that wasn't really an issue here. If many had decided BK wasn't for them, then the rise in price was immaterial.
It may also be that they're still doing significant offers; I seem to remember around the time the prices first shot up, they were offering direct customers deals like buy one get one half price and such, which would have dramatically reduced the per-unit price.
My main memory of that was that Andy was touting a soon-to-come Big Announcement about the "new owners" - I don't think it ever happened. Maybe it was American Classics as bought them out? I seem to recall having a lot of fun with all sorts of wild conspiracy theories - including it being Sandy Alexander buying them out in order to relaunch his AL/Simmons Bilt brand after the PR headache of the Lauder trial.
Both Thedi and BK were asked about that early on, and they denied all knowledge of each other's very existence. Which seemed odd in such a niche marketplace - them claiming not to have heard of each other, I mean - but there you go. I have a vague recollection that in the early days Andy said he worked for a larger company that was doing the BK brand as a new venture / sideline, having been around in the fashion world for many years, but I don't recall any more now.
Covered above....
THough my recollection was not that Andy was banned, but rather that BK chose to drop their affiliate thread and quit TFL because Andy did not care for the reception his approach to marketing garnered in these parts. I guess that makes sense - why hang around a place trying to sell to them if it's not a fertile marketplace?
As memory serves, BK were rather popular for a while with the VLJ crowd, in particular when they were more affordable and as Goodwear and ELC shot up in price beyond what many could / would spend. If price is a criterion in that way, of course, I suspect they might be less commonly spotted over there now too.
BK's rants remind me of another maker's, of very high quality jackets, rants.
It's a similar approach the marketing, but taken to the Nth degree!
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