Binding Your Edge

[Spatterdash]

They say that a man who binds his own edge has a fool for a hatter, but I want to know who has done it, how they did it and what they can tell us about the process.

What kind of stitch did you use?
What width of ribbon did you use?
What steps did you follow to complete the process?

Oh, and don't try and scare us off with with "It's hard" and "let a pro handle it", this is the Fedora Lounge! Show some backbone and post a tutorial! Make it Sticky, says I!

Finally, some say a special machine is used just for this part of hatmaking, where can one find this magical contraption and what horrid beast keeps it safe from mortal eyes?

 

[EricH]

Start your research here.

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=13238&highlight=making

then, use that Fedora search engine and Google. The information is already out there. It ain't about backbone its about research and practice because it is easy to do bad work and infinitely harder to do good work. The devil is in the details and hats are all about the details.

Eric

 

[feltfan]

It's hard. Let a pro handle it.

 

[Spatterdash]

I've edited this post.
I reacted very poorly to EricH, and to him and anyone else that saw my response, my apologies, it was inappropriate.

I'm wanting a specific thread on this subject, as it interests me deeply.
I am FULLY aware of the search capabilities of this forum and use them extensively.

In this case, I want to see a dedicated thread. If you don't wish to contribute to the thread, no problem. Allow that some might find the subject worthwhile.
Are we reaching the point that we need thread approval?

Anyway, does anyone care to share their edge binding here?

 

[Ande1964]

I think it was Oscar Wilde who said, "The only thing more annoying that someone not using the search function are the hordes who instantly jump on someone who has not used the search function."

Seriously, I think you should make an effort to search for what you want here, but the search engine is far from perfect, not all of us have figured out the google thing yet, and some things do deserve a fresh, dedicated thread.

As for the topic initially raised, it looks too scary for me to try. Good luck to you if you go for it, but I'll stick to restoring or revamping hats that already have that done for me.

Anj

 

[RBH]

I can tell you deanGlen has had great luck at binding an edge, he does not post as much anymore and I DID try a search on several key words but had no luck.
Please keep us informed as to your progress.

 

[Spatterdash]

That's the worst part, the assumption that I haven't searched. I did and I found some references, but most of it was commentary, not specifics.

I'm thinking of using a 7/8 grosgrain for edging, ironed in half, handsewn with a whipstitch. Why?
Best guess.
I found comments on ironing, and the hatmaking thread featured a sewing machine seemed to have some sort of jig that took the ribbon in a folded shape as it was being sewn on. What is it? Thus this thread.

Someone mentioned Art uses a machine and handsews as well. Details on the process, please. I'd love to know some details. That madman produces the sweetest edges, and his color choices are amazing.


I did notice that one person attempted a saddle stitch and seemed to do fairly well, But if a standard single stitch in a sewing machine will work, the two-needle method may not be required.

Don't recall if that was Dean or Dutchman that pulled off the nifty saddle stitch technique... but I would be appreciative if they would post here.

Which brings us back to the reason for the thread.

 

[Art Fawcett]

hi Spatterdash..boy, you're asking alot in your request. I've never taken pics of the process but there are two ways.
For the pro that uses the Singer 108-20 that has the binding attatchment with it it's a reasonably simple matter. Just fold the ribbon into the predetermined ribbon width setting, sew the single stitch all the way around, then remove it from the machine , fold the end of the ribbon in as clean a manner as capable, and finish sewing. I know one hatter that can do it in less that 10 minutes.
The second method isn't so easy but imho produces a more "vintage" rear seam. Oh, there actually IS a machine specifically designed to stitch the rear seam from the outside.

Ok, method #2. You've already got a good start. Take your hat, brim curled up all the way around, place it on your surface. Measure the ribbon by actually following the brim edge, cut it where it meets the ribbon end. Making sure the ribbon isn't twisted, sew the rear seam approx 1/4" from the ends using the tightest stitch your regular machine is capable of. You now have a completed circle that theoretically is 1/2" too small right?..wrong, it should actually fit tightly on the brim edge when finished. Now, take it to your iron , turn it inside out and press the 1/4" flaps or ribbon ends flat, to the sides they came from. take a good pair of scissors and make an angled cut from the seam to the middle of the ribbon end, making them two triangular "flaps" for lack of the correct term. Now, using your iron on it's lowest heat setting that still allows steam, fold and press the ribbon on to itself. effectivly giving you a center crease on the ribbon to align with the center of the brim felt. At this point, it's ready to install on the brim, making sure you align the rear seam with the rear seam of the sweatband. You now baste the ribbon on with approx 3/4" stitches using a fine needle to minimize the size of the holes in the ribbon and adjusting the center seam of the ribbon to the center of the felt thickness. Once you are satisfied that it is centered, press the ribbon again on the hat, reducing the "puckering" the ribbon will do. The steam will also serve to shrink the ribbon more to the hat. At this point take it to your sewing machine, set it for approx 1/8" stitch ( number 3 on my machine) and sew the binding down, making sure you overlap the back ( where I start sewing) at least 3 stitches.
Remove the basting and, if you've done it right, you have a brim binding that won't shame you. Press the brim again and the basting holes should shrink away. Now the hat is ready for the final flanging.

method 3? send it to a pro

As a side note Spatterdash, I hesitated answering your posts because your tone seems odd to me and rather demanding. It would have made my decision to respond seriously to it easier had I not read so many "I want's" in your request. Please understand that no hatter owes you the the information you want, just because you want it. I decided to respond because it would be good for the Lounge.

 

[feltfan]

To be fair to Spatterdash, I don't think there's much
to find about binding on this (or any) site. It's an advanced
topic. Let's hear it for Art for being such a good sport.
Hatters are famously reticent to share technique.

There are a couple of books out there on hat making
techniques, but I don't know how useful they are
because I know I can't do it. I have done enough
sewing to know how many thumbs I actually have...
or have actually punctured.

 

[Spatterdash]

It's okay, Feltfan.

He's knocking my tone, not the subject... Too many "I wants" from clarifying and defending why I was starting the thread in the first place for his taste.
And let's be honest, Art's taste is a force to be reckoned with. I'm glad he shares it with us.

The backbone stuff, "Sticky, says I", a fool for a hatter, all that stuff in my first post was intended to be lighthearted banter and enthusiasm for the topic.
It didn't translate well. I think most folks knew I was being comedic, a few chose to see it otherwise.
It's my fault.

It's also the reason I usually lurk. I'm not very good at communicating tone.

Thank you for the information, Art. I was curious how to pull this off without creating a circle of ribbon. Everything else looked like a chase-the-pucker scenario

 

[MrFusion]

The backbone stuff, "Sticky, says I", a fool for a hatter, all that stuff in my first post was intended to be lighthearted banter and enthusiasm for the topic.
It didn't translate well. I think most folks knew I was being comedic, a few chose to see it otherwise.
It's my fault.

It's also the reason I usually lurk. I'm not very good at communicating tone.

For what it's worth, that's exactly how I took it - enthusiasm for the topic.
I also lurk a bit more than I would like for the same reason, well that, and getting jumped on for not using search (when I usually already have). BTW, no one here has jumped on me for that - yet. I'm trying to be very careful!

 

[Fletch]

I have done enough
sewing to know how many thumbs I actually have...
or have actually punctured.

Remember, though, if it stops bleeding in less than 10 minutes, doesn't puncture a nail or leave a separate exit wound, it doesn't count.

 

[Art Fawcett]

No worries Dash, I knew it could have gone either way with your tone ( joking or serious) but since I haven't followed your posting style I don't "know" you well enough to recognize your intent. Also, I came in after you edited so I'm at a loss for what was said. I guess I'm feeling a bit "snakebit" from other posts in other areas of the Lounge so "edgy" might be a good description of my mood.

Bottom line here, binding the edge of a brim really isn't rocket science, but doing it well requires a tremendous amount of effort and practice. So, the question becomes "how much are you willing to be frustrated" and how dedicated you ( the Royal "you" ) are to doing it right?. Each of us have our own standards but my instructions are only a small part of the equasion, with effort being the great portion.

 

[Spatterdash]

I understand edgy, Master Fawcett, I empathize.

Let's cut to the chase. Say I had an iron, some 5/8 or 7/8 inch grosgrain and a sewing machine.
I sew the ribbon edges together once I've measured twice and cut once. I run a crease in this ribbon so that it sits as a flat oval, mirroring the brim.
I'm okay handstitching, enough so that I can baste the sucker down prior to hitting it with the machine, so I do that.
Then I start walking the edge through the sewing machine using small stitches and keeping to the inside edge.

I remove basting stitches, I post pics, people go "Wow, dude, you suck so bad, it's sorta cute!"

If I had a beaten up cowboy hat to practice on, (you know, try a binding, trim the edge, try again, again, again, again...stingy brim!) would I have a decent understanding of the process in your estimation?

 

[jdbenson]

Bound Brim

Check a thread called "Conversion Corral". It has a lot of How-to data on converting Cowboys into Fedoras, including binding the brim.

 

[Marty M.]

Remember, though, if it stops bleeding in less than 10 minutes, doesn't puncture a nail or leave a separate exit wound, it doesn't count.

lol lol :eusa_clap .
Hey Spatterdash, it's good to see ya posting again buddy.
Marty Mathis

 

[Spatterdash]

Thanks Marty.

Good to be back.

Lemme know if ya still want those vintage spats.

 

[Aaron Hats]

Binding machine

Aaron

 

[feltfan]

It's okay, Feltfan.

He's knocking my tone, not the subject... Too many "I wants" from clarifying

I wasn't responding to what Art said about you.
I was responding to the folks who said you should
do more searches on the site. Often I'm the one
saying newbies should use the search function.
But in this case, I knew you wouldn't find much.
BTW, I thought your humor was pretty clear,
which is why my first post just teased you.

I bet there are professional hatters out there who
haven't had even as much a lesson on brim binding
as Art wrote. Hatters are notoriously tight lipped.
And Loungers are notoriously generous with amateur
hat making attempts. So fear not.

BTW, have you ever posted anything
about spats? I bet many of us would love to learn
about them. When were they worn? Were they
sized? What materials were used? Post a "Spats 101"
for us some time.

Fletch, I'll never tell. But when the Red Cross blood donation
van pulls up in front of my house, there's a good chance
I'm sewing.

 

[Art Fawcett]

If I had a beaten up cowboy hat to practice on, (you know, try a binding, trim the edge, try again, again, again, again...stingy brim!) would I have a decent understanding of the process in your estimation?

Absolutely, although this is the Lounge so I doub't you'd get the "man you suck" attitude. Again, I stress that how well you do it depends basically on how "anal" you are about details. If you are ( again the Royal you) easily satisfied then the work will reflect that. If you are NOT easily satisfied, you're gonna get bloodied up a bit (figuratively speaking) in the effort. But, at the end you'll have a better degree of understanding of what it takes to make a truly outstanding product. Hopefully, the process will increase your own appreciation ( not assuming you need it) of the art involved. I often read the word "just" in front of some of the procedures shared here ie: "just" sand it a bit to knock off the loose hairs & you're good to go" with the implication being " OH, it's easy.."just" XXXX" so why need a pro? What that does is diminish the talents of some pretty outstanding artists .
uh oh,,the "edgy" is creeping back. look at the time..gotta run