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StichinTime, why don't you go with the Schott models mentioned above? They're available at Rakuten, I believe, and I doubt you'll find a better jacket.
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Best leather jacket brands?
- Thread starter FullLeatherJacket
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dudewuttheheck
I'll Lock Up
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Gotta add Diamond Dave/Diamondclothingco to the list. I couldn't be happier with my J-100 repro.
StichInTime
New in Town
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- England
Vanson and Schott are readily available yes, but I would rather go with a slimmer cut from a JP brand.
I could probably get an Aero from eBay UK for similar money which would be better quality than Schott if I wanted a classic fit. For those in the US you seem spoilt with custom leather makers!
Edward
Bartender
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- London, UK
A Lewis Corsair, Dominator or similar would git the bill style-wise, but not cheap. If you've already ruled out a nes Aero Sheene or Thirties Highwayman, they're probably more than you want to spend.
StichInTime
New in Town
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Yes, thanks as I have posted I am primarily looking at Yahoo Auctions via proxy. The weak Yen helps as well!
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Hi, I'm new here, and I thought a thread titled like this looks like a good start.
I ordered a HH Speed Demon from Lost Worlds recently, should arrive shortly and I'll be happy to post a short impression.
I've owned Schott Perfectos for over a decade and disagree one "wouldn't find a better jacket", simply because that depends on what one is looking for. I do love my Schotts, but it's a very different thing from Vanson's "competition weight" cowhide, my only direct comparison so far. Vanson's is much stiffer, apparently dryer (to the touch) and has a more polished surface, Schott's is more supple, breaks in completely in about 3-4 weeks daily wear, looks more matt than shiny, and feels slightly oily to the fingers at first, but that and the black color start to wash out in heavy rain relatively quickly.
I don't ride and I'm not a leather expert, these are just subjective observations and are not intended as judgement of one manufacturer vs another, so do what you want with them. FWIW, the Perfectos in question are an early 90s and a 2005 make and off the shelf types.
I ordered a HH Speed Demon from Lost Worlds recently, should arrive shortly and I'll be happy to post a short impression.
I've owned Schott Perfectos for over a decade and disagree one "wouldn't find a better jacket", simply because that depends on what one is looking for. I do love my Schotts, but it's a very different thing from Vanson's "competition weight" cowhide, my only direct comparison so far. Vanson's is much stiffer, apparently dryer (to the touch) and has a more polished surface, Schott's is more supple, breaks in completely in about 3-4 weeks daily wear, looks more matt than shiny, and feels slightly oily to the fingers at first, but that and the black color start to wash out in heavy rain relatively quickly.
I don't ride and I'm not a leather expert, these are just subjective observations and are not intended as judgement of one manufacturer vs another, so do what you want with them. FWIW, the Perfectos in question are an early 90s and a 2005 make and off the shelf types.
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Hi and welcome Arnold.
I was talking about quality, of course. The aesthetics are not my primary concern, and while Schott steer is considerably different from what Vanson, Langlitz or Aero are using, as far as the quality goes, Schott's right up there with the best of 'em.
I was talking about quality, of course. The aesthetics are not my primary concern, and while Schott steer is considerably different from what Vanson, Langlitz or Aero are using, as far as the quality goes, Schott's right up there with the best of 'em.
To the OP:
Go for an Italian producer - simple leather jackets, especially bombers and the like are their speciality - they rarely get a mention on here to be honest, but the Italian stuff is just as well made as anything in the UK albeit it's hard to get in the English speaking world (mostly sold in Italy, Germany and the lowlands).
Stewart in particular spring to mind, this is a staple of theirs, a goat leather bomber:
http://www.stewart.it/catalog/fall-winter-14-15-essential-man/
Go for an Italian producer - simple leather jackets, especially bombers and the like are their speciality - they rarely get a mention on here to be honest, but the Italian stuff is just as well made as anything in the UK albeit it's hard to get in the English speaking world (mostly sold in Italy, Germany and the lowlands).
Stewart in particular spring to mind, this is a staple of theirs, a goat leather bomber:
http://www.stewart.it/catalog/fall-winter-14-15-essential-man/
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ShaneB, seconded
You can find some seriously quality stuff in Italy that rarely ever get mentioned here or anywhere else for that matter, unfortunately. Tons of fantastic repros of American or British classics, as well. Halfbelts, Flight jackets, D-pockets... First Buco replicas I've ever seen were from Italy, and they were made really, really well.
There's good stuff everywhere. I've recently acquired this random old horsehide CR, apparently made in Detroit, and it's the best damn jacket I've ever seen in my life and by far. Perfect measurements, leather is 6oz thick and the jacket is still manages to be buttery soft. Never seen anything like it.
You can find some seriously quality stuff in Italy that rarely ever get mentioned here or anywhere else for that matter, unfortunately. Tons of fantastic repros of American or British classics, as well. Halfbelts, Flight jackets, D-pockets... First Buco replicas I've ever seen were from Italy, and they were made really, really well.
There's good stuff everywhere. I've recently acquired this random old horsehide CR, apparently made in Detroit, and it's the best damn jacket I've ever seen in my life and by far. Perfect measurements, leather is 6oz thick and the jacket is still manages to be buttery soft. Never seen anything like it.
I think Italy is easily on par with Britain / America & Japan for leather goods - infact, I think Stewart may make LVC leather jackets? I'm not entirely sure.
Unfortunately, Italian clothes shops tend to have very poor e-commerce sites and Italian brands seem to be firmly set on the Continent. It's a shame really because their stuff is very good, and little cheaper than Aero.
kronos77
One of the Regulars
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The prices at Johnson seem really low. What do they compromise on? There must be something, right? Or wrong?
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The prices for the custom jackets are higher than the prices showing for the standard sizes. Also different leathers will be more expensive than the standard. Johnson doesn't compromise.
Even custom is cheap. I had a fussy half-belt jacket made from scratch at $650. They don't compromise. They have simply set their price at what they believe is appropriate.
To follow up to my first post from January: I received the Lost World Speed Demon. To be precise, the SD is NOT new as of late 2014, it's an old style for the Japanese market that Stuart seems to have resurrected last year with this new name. The NOS Japan jacket I got is already very good, but he says (and I believe him there) his current stuff was much better.
As for this comparison:
My two Schott jackets' leathers are so different from Vanson's competition weight cowhide I wouldn't compare them in terms of quality. Personally I like the soft, supple, naked feel of Schott cowhide (no idea about steer, I didn't bring it up), and it smells good, and looks great - for the first year or so. The big downside is that it scratches very, very easily, and I haven't yet found out how to make these jackets look good once they got two or three heavy summer soaks either, as the color bleeds heavily. So, as much as I love my Perfectos I don't think they're professional, highly protective riding gear like Vanson, and already now I can tell that a Lost Worlds HH will keep its initial surface look much longer/ simply: look better longer. Unless you like faded and scratched naked cowhide - which would perfectly legit of course. My first Perfecto did get a lot of attention and praise from women the older and more worn it got. It just didn't deserve the adjective "black" anymore at that point ;-)
So, as an aside, if most of those rants by Stuart from LW are indeed directed at Schott as some have said in this forum, I can see his point, while I do disagree with the conclusion that Schott jackets were crap, feminized etc. just because they're apparently more fashion items than real riding garments these days.
Now on to posting some questions about Aero jackets in another thread.
As for this comparison:
Hi and welcome Arnold.
I was talking about quality, of course. The aesthetics are not my primary concern, and while Schott steer is considerably different from what Vanson, Langlitz or Aero are using, as far as the quality goes, Schott's right up there with the best of 'em.
My two Schott jackets' leathers are so different from Vanson's competition weight cowhide I wouldn't compare them in terms of quality. Personally I like the soft, supple, naked feel of Schott cowhide (no idea about steer, I didn't bring it up), and it smells good, and looks great - for the first year or so. The big downside is that it scratches very, very easily, and I haven't yet found out how to make these jackets look good once they got two or three heavy summer soaks either, as the color bleeds heavily. So, as much as I love my Perfectos I don't think they're professional, highly protective riding gear like Vanson, and already now I can tell that a Lost Worlds HH will keep its initial surface look much longer/ simply: look better longer. Unless you like faded and scratched naked cowhide - which would perfectly legit of course. My first Perfecto did get a lot of attention and praise from women the older and more worn it got. It just didn't deserve the adjective "black" anymore at that point ;-)
So, as an aside, if most of those rants by Stuart from LW are indeed directed at Schott as some have said in this forum, I can see his point, while I do disagree with the conclusion that Schott jackets were crap, feminized etc. just because they're apparently more fashion items than real riding garments these days.
Now on to posting some questions about Aero jackets in another thread.
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Arnold, I believe you you've had such experience with Schott jackets, but I haven't noticed a single downside of owning a Schott jacket.
On the other hand, I've managed to make a visible scratch on my Vanson Model A just by my fingernail. It was by no means a significant scratch, but the mark remained there as the protective shiny coat got damaged. I'm not saying this hadn't happened with my Schott jackets, but I haven't noticed them wear off any quicker than Vanson. Aero is very susseptible to scratches, due to the shiny glossy coat. You can draw on it.
My friend's got of those early Schott A2's that he's had for decades and that thing literally looks brand new and is black as a midnight on a moonless night. That isn't to say that I don't very often see Schott jackets on eBay that are light shade of white without an inch of a protective finish left on 'em... I guess they are hit and miss sometimes (remember when they pulled off all of their CAF1 jackets after the sleeves began shrinking and not uniformly at that to make it worse, so people had one sleeve few inches longer than the other?).
My point is, and this is speaking from a personal experience, I've reached a conclusion that none of these top jackets are in any way really significantly superior to one another other so you can't really go wrong with either of them. Which is why I always favor Vanson above other manufacturers because at a really great price - comparatively speaking, of course, as you can still buy a good quality cheapo for a $400 less - you get the finest leather jacket money can buy, and one at that that is made from some of the best looking leathers I've seen, that also happens to age really well. The only beef I've got with 'em is the split back, which I dislike but again, that's me.
There's no doubt that Stu makes a tremendous product but taking pot shots at Schott (and Aero) is really being counterproductive. There are plenty of crap mall brands selling lambskins for a premium around to make fun of, and only a handful of established manufacturers of top quality jackets and the last thing he should be doing is trying to compare to them - even if his product truly IS superior to, say, I dunno, Schott. My point is, I know it's just his poor attempt at marketing and advertising - and an unfair one because, let's face it, it's plainly obvious he's lifted plenty of innovations Schott had (claimed to have) come up with, for his jackets - but it is entirely pointless as I don't believe you can get people to switch from one top brand to another. At least not enough folk to sustain your business. Schott's doing it right by finding a balance between fashion and genuine functionality because they're trying to get people to switch from crap fashion items to quality stuff that is also fashion friendly. And that works because the difference between a Schott 618 and that $5,300 SLP Perfecto lambskin horror is much, much more obvious than the difference between the 618 and Stu's Speed Demon.
When my friends who don't know anything about leather jackets try on my Aero or Schott, they're floored by the weight, quality, beauty of the hide, lining... But they still can't seem to figure out what exactly is the difference between my Schott 618 and Aero MC jacket. Some like the colorful Aero lining more, others find Schott Perfecto belt buckle really cool, some prefer softer hide... For them to become aware of what makes one top brand garment different than the other, they'd have to all be a members of this forum, and for a long time at that, to finally settle down with one manufacturer. Or a few. As we did.
I babble, I know...
On the other hand, I've managed to make a visible scratch on my Vanson Model A just by my fingernail. It was by no means a significant scratch, but the mark remained there as the protective shiny coat got damaged. I'm not saying this hadn't happened with my Schott jackets, but I haven't noticed them wear off any quicker than Vanson. Aero is very susseptible to scratches, due to the shiny glossy coat. You can draw on it.
My friend's got of those early Schott A2's that he's had for decades and that thing literally looks brand new and is black as a midnight on a moonless night. That isn't to say that I don't very often see Schott jackets on eBay that are light shade of white without an inch of a protective finish left on 'em... I guess they are hit and miss sometimes (remember when they pulled off all of their CAF1 jackets after the sleeves began shrinking and not uniformly at that to make it worse, so people had one sleeve few inches longer than the other?).
My point is, and this is speaking from a personal experience, I've reached a conclusion that none of these top jackets are in any way really significantly superior to one another other so you can't really go wrong with either of them. Which is why I always favor Vanson above other manufacturers because at a really great price - comparatively speaking, of course, as you can still buy a good quality cheapo for a $400 less - you get the finest leather jacket money can buy, and one at that that is made from some of the best looking leathers I've seen, that also happens to age really well. The only beef I've got with 'em is the split back, which I dislike but again, that's me.
There's no doubt that Stu makes a tremendous product but taking pot shots at Schott (and Aero) is really being counterproductive. There are plenty of crap mall brands selling lambskins for a premium around to make fun of, and only a handful of established manufacturers of top quality jackets and the last thing he should be doing is trying to compare to them - even if his product truly IS superior to, say, I dunno, Schott. My point is, I know it's just his poor attempt at marketing and advertising - and an unfair one because, let's face it, it's plainly obvious he's lifted plenty of innovations Schott had (claimed to have) come up with, for his jackets - but it is entirely pointless as I don't believe you can get people to switch from one top brand to another. At least not enough folk to sustain your business. Schott's doing it right by finding a balance between fashion and genuine functionality because they're trying to get people to switch from crap fashion items to quality stuff that is also fashion friendly. And that works because the difference between a Schott 618 and that $5,300 SLP Perfecto lambskin horror is much, much more obvious than the difference between the 618 and Stu's Speed Demon.
When my friends who don't know anything about leather jackets try on my Aero or Schott, they're floored by the weight, quality, beauty of the hide, lining... But they still can't seem to figure out what exactly is the difference between my Schott 618 and Aero MC jacket. Some like the colorful Aero lining more, others find Schott Perfecto belt buckle really cool, some prefer softer hide... For them to become aware of what makes one top brand garment different than the other, they'd have to all be a members of this forum, and for a long time at that, to finally settle down with one manufacturer. Or a few. As we did.
I babble, I know...
kronos77
One of the Regulars
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I agree that Schott is a high quality jacket. Aero gets more attention here, which is fine, but Schott is tops in its own way. I have had my 141 for 10 years now. It looks great still, despite probably being soaked through 12 to 15 times. The naked cowhide might not develop character the way fqhh does, but it isnt lacking in broken in character either. Some like one or the other and some, like me, appreciate both.
The only problem I have with Schott is that the fit could be slimmer.
The only problem I have with Schott is that the fit could be slimmer.
Monitor: you have some good points regarding Schott. And I do like them enough that I'll probably buy them again in the future. My main gripe at the moment is that they discontinued the 125 last year and I'm not a fan of sewn-in belts. They seem to have some longer, more fashion-oriented successor to the 125 now but that isn't of interest to me.
As for slimmer fit, kronos, that's another reason I prefer the 125 over the 118 etc - the laced side gussets really work for getting a slightly more V-tapered fit. (The folds behind the gussets are slightly uncomfortable only as long as the jacket isn't broken in.)
Monitor, funny that you mention different sleeve lengths - I've only ever had 125 models but the first one of mine also came with different sleeves. In fact the whole jacket was strongly asymmetrical, more than even handmade heavy leather garments should be allowed - the left, shorter arm had a much wider circumference on the torso end. The retailer (Legendary) accepted a return for exchange even though they usually don't do that with overseas purchases.
I considered it an exception though, as my two jackets since had only much smaller imperfections and serve(d) me well.
So well in fact that I'm currently steering away from leather (temporarily of course) and am badly looking for a "Sage Sateen" J23 from LW. Stuart had little of that material left and I spent some time deliberating on sizing, then life events distracted me from any such first world problems, now it's all sold out. Does anyone here possibly have an idea where to find that material? ("NOS 1982 USAF Flame-Retardant, Water-Repellant 100% Sage Sateen Cotton", in full.)
As for slimmer fit, kronos, that's another reason I prefer the 125 over the 118 etc - the laced side gussets really work for getting a slightly more V-tapered fit. (The folds behind the gussets are slightly uncomfortable only as long as the jacket isn't broken in.)
Monitor, funny that you mention different sleeve lengths - I've only ever had 125 models but the first one of mine also came with different sleeves. In fact the whole jacket was strongly asymmetrical, more than even handmade heavy leather garments should be allowed - the left, shorter arm had a much wider circumference on the torso end. The retailer (Legendary) accepted a return for exchange even though they usually don't do that with overseas purchases.
I considered it an exception though, as my two jackets since had only much smaller imperfections and serve(d) me well.
So well in fact that I'm currently steering away from leather (temporarily of course) and am badly looking for a "Sage Sateen" J23 from LW. Stuart had little of that material left and I spent some time deliberating on sizing, then life events distracted me from any such first world problems, now it's all sold out. Does anyone here possibly have an idea where to find that material? ("NOS 1982 USAF Flame-Retardant, Water-Repellant 100% Sage Sateen Cotton", in full.)
