Best A-2 for up to $600

[Nicolas Voss]

You are quite right, Fanch, that is something I forgot. I reside in Brazil, which is one of the reasons for the price limitation (the current exchange rate dollar-real is 1:2.2). I'm used to importing stuff though, so that is something I can work out with the seller.

It does seem that buying a used jacket is a very good deal, since these things seem to last forever and the price decrease from a new to used is significant.

 

[Jeff M]

True Jeff, goat can patinate well though...

Yep.
I thought the Bazelot's "new" M422 pictured over at the VLJ forum certainly had a lot of character;

 

[Dr H]

Yes Jeff, my vintage G&F looked very similar - love the goat that G&F used.

 

[pilot error]

The reason that early M422a's developed that sought after patina particularly G&F and Church is that they were vegetable tanned rather than the more common chrome tanning process.

 

[BuzzTheTower]

Actually, the leather is chrome tanned. The gov't and the Navy insisted, from the 1930s (37J1) all the way to now that all leather would be chrome tanned. This was a faster and more stable method of tanning, and the results were quite predictable. This is also true of A-2 jackets. Mituhiro Aota, who wrote the book Full Gear (about military flight jackets) is a fanatic in sourcing gov't documents on why parts should be as they are in contracts. Every format of leather in Navy jackets and Army Air Force jackets had to adhere to both the federal guidelines, and then the Navy or AAF guidelines. They were far more strict than typical commercial guidelines would be for garments, and only chrome tanning was accepted.

What your eyes are looking at, when they see this kind of beautiful aging of leather, is the type of finish that is applied to the leather. Goatskin usually does a little better with aniline and then a nitrocellulose finish, whereas most of the horsehide and cowhide used in WWII has what is called a semi-aniline finish. That means they dip or spray the leather in a dye that shades the leather from off-white to mid-brown, and then spray the outside of the leather with a pigment that is close to that shade. As the jacket is worn, it'll initially only get a little bit lighter in tone, and then as that wears down, you will see leather closer to a tan color.

The beautiful photo above shows a typical finish technique that would have been just fine to the Navy. Over time, we see through the 1950s a much more heavy and permanent type of color technique used to finish goatskin. Some of the early 1960s Navy jackets show little wear, and certainly have none of the beauty we see above.

The G&F originals can have a massive amount of difference in goatskin. Some are almost russet, with a thicker, more pure color, and some are very dark, while others show this kind of dramatic color fade along areas that get friction. I had one that was almost black. They all would have looked rather "even" in whatever color tone when new. G&F, if I'm right from the paperwork that I've seen, had one M-422A contract for 250,000 jackets (and other jackets had that same contract number, like the M-421A, M-69E, etc...), and every part that was to be brown had the color reference as "it shall be chocolate in color" What does chocolate mean? Well, as long as it wasn't green, blue, or white, I think the makers of said parts were happy to say their parts were chocolate. Note that some of their knit sets were a dull purple color. It was dull enough that it could pass in the system as chocolate, even though some of us would beg to differ.

What your eye sees is the finish, not the tanning technique. By 1920, only about 20% of all the leather tanned in the USA was vegetable. Chrome won the day, and it's chrome in all the documentation. For larger contractors, I would guess that many tanneries were involved in one contract, though with G&F, the biggest tannery in the world at the time was just down the road a bit (Pfister & Vogel). Maybe only one tannery served G&F and Monarch. H&L Block was actually a tannery, and they had a side business of making jackets.

Hope that helps!

Buzzthetower

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Thanks JC. Great info..!!
HD

 

[pilot error]

Thanks John, my info came from Roger Moore's website.

 

[Aerojoe]

Best A-2 for up to $600

Well, right under 600 and new in town , Cockpit just launched their 1000 hour a-2;

http://www.cockpitusa.com/the-1000-hour-a-2-jackettm

Not historically accurate, it does have side entry pockets but if it is half the wearable their former versions were, it could be an option to have in mind.

I ordered its G-1 counterpart. I didn't received it yet but I let you know it's good stuff;

 

[bretron]

John setting the record straight for the chrome domes

 

[kojax]

hello people last year i got the cockpit usa vintage goatskin g1 jacket. the best jacket i bought it was 620.00 cockpit vintage goatskin is real nice easy to wear. i really like this jacket

 

[Aerojoe]

hello people last year i got the cockpit usa vintage goatskin g1 jacket. the best jacket i bought it was 620.00 cockpit vintage goatskin is real nice easy to wear. i really like this jacket

Last year I got the unpachted version of their Forrestal G-1. It's like the vintage g-1 but with an A-2 collar. Technically an ANJ-3;

Right now it's the jacket I'm grabbing in a daily basis. Not high end but ultra-wearable. This one doesn't have side entry pockets.

 

[pak]

I believe that regardless of how tough a $1000.00 custom jacket may be, a lot tend to wear the beaters when damage to the jacket is possible e.g. Working on a car. Serious riders excluded.

 

[Brettafett]

Last year I got the unpachted version of their Forrestal G-1. It's like the vintage g-1 but with an A-2 collar. Technically an ANJ-3;

Right now it's the jacket I'm grabbing in a daily basis. Not high end but ultra-wearable. This one doesn't have side entry pockets.

Aerojoe, where did you get this jacket?
I was after one a while back, but they said only patched version available....
Where are you getting you jackets? Whats the Trap 200?
Thanks

 

[kojax]

they sell them cockpit usa they are in newyork city

 

[Aerojoe]

Aerojoe, where did you get this jacket?
I was after one a while back, but they said only patched version available....
Where are you getting you jackets? Whats the Trap 200?
Thanks

I found it in a shop in Madrid. They still have a batch of them. PM if you want their address. You can order from cockpitusa.com aswell.

 

[morrison2951]

New here- also looking for a good A-2 in this price range and have heard alot about Aero.

Then I stumbled on an "Aero Classic" on the net. I presume it's a knock-off? The sizing appears to be of the S, M ,L , XL variety.

Anyone heard of them or have one? It looks to have a single piece leather back which is I understand a sign of a quality A-2. Thanks!

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Morrison2951
Welcome to The Fedora Lounge. Never heard of Aero Classics. Do you have a link..??
HD

 

[Sloan1874]

I bet Ken would be interested to hear about them too!

 

[morrison2951]

Me neither and I did a search here and also found nothing about it.

No link, sorry. I had stumbled on them on the net and saw a picture of the A-2 with their "aero classic" leather badge on the left chest, but now when you do a google search, nothing comes up for them?

 

[ButteMT61]

"Aero Classics" is offered by the guy on ebay who rep's AL using Aero's name and reputation to sell AL jackets.
He came here pretending to be an innocuous guy and was found out in about 35 seconds.
I can no longer recall his name here, but it's similar/the same as the ebay account.
"DrifterProductions" That's him.