Belstaff 'Ironhyde' coat

[Black Prince]

Hello, guys. Stumbled across your site this evening and it felt weirdly like coming come. Where have you been all of my life?! As proud owner of two Aero jackets, currently contemplating a third (thinking brown or cordovan Barnstormer, but wondering if I can get away with it, given London's rising temperatures and lack of a proper winter), I'm delighted to find a hotbed of fellow obsessives!

Anyway, as well as top-quality leathers I collect vintage waterproofs, especially oilskins and rubberised motorcycling gear. A few months back, I was lucky enough to win a Belstaff 'Ironhyde' coat:

Here's me in it (not on a bike, sadly):

(Decapitated because a) I'm still a little iffy about putting full-face photos up online, and b) I'm not wearing a hat or helmet - the shame!)

It's a heavyweight beast, in the same kind of waterproofed material used to make Belstaff's famous Black Prince suits, and generates a lot of heat. It's quite a technical garment too, with all sorts of little functional details like the shoulder flap that fastens over the front to stop rain getting in, and the through-crotch thing that stops the coat blowing up in strong winds. It seems also to be possible to strap the coat's 'skirts' around one's legs, presumably to make it easier to wear it on a motorcycle.

I'm wondering if anyone here can shed some light on the history of these coats. I'm pretty sure Belstaff didn't patent the Black Prince 'plasticated' stuff until the 1950s, but I think the coat's design is based on earlier despatch rider outfits and may have been available in heavy gaberdine or the like.

Can anyone tell me more?

 

[Nautilus]

"...and it felt weirdly like coming come."

I wish logging in to the lounge did that for me too.

 

[Black Prince]

This forum particularly.

 

[Speedster]

Welcome to the lounge Black Prince. That is a very cool coat you got there.
Afraid i cannot shed a light on the history of these coats.

 

[Flieger]

Welcome Black Prince!

Wow! That is one cool looking, retro-futuristic coat. Makes me think about films like Dune, Brazil and Delicatessen. :eusa_clap

I wish I could help you with your questions but this is the first time I ever heard about Belstaff and Ironhyde.

/Flieger

 

[PADDY]

Dr Eardley....where are you....?

Alan is usually well briefed on the likes of old English coats and jackets (flying and motoring), I'm sure he'll have some info on this lovely Belstaff!

Welcome aboard!! :eusa_clap

 

[Black Prince]

"...and it felt weirdly like coming come."

I wish logging in to the lounge did that for me too.

D'oh. Just realised what you were getting at. Dr Freud is twitching in his eternal slumber...

 

[BellyTank]

Dr. Eardley..?

Welcome Black Prince!

As Paddy mentioned, our chum, Alan Eardley, knower of many things, can tell all about these items of outerwear-

He bloody well should- he used to work for Belstaff.

Belstaff-staff.

B
T

 

[Black Prince]

Wow! That is one cool looking, retro-futuristic coat. Makes me think about films like Dune, Brazil and Delicatessen.

Y'know, even though those are three of my favourite films, I'd never made the connection. You're absolutely right, though, retro-futuristic is the word.

I found this thread which features a picture of the sort of British wartime despatch rider coat which I think inspired the 'Ironhyde'. It's actually a pretty cumbersome thing to wear, even when the detachable blanket lining's removed. Feels great but always makes me think I ought to be living somewhere colder and wetter than global warming era London...

 

[Alan Eardley]

Belstaff coat

Hello, guys. Stumbled across your site this evening and it felt weirdly like coming come. Where have you been all of my life?! As proud owner of two Aero jackets, currently contemplating a third (thinking brown or cordovan Barnstormer, but wondering if I can get away with it, given London's rising temperatures and lack of a proper winter), I'm delighted to find a hotbed of fellow obsessives!

Anyway, as well as top-quality leathers I collect vintage waterproofs, especially oilskins and rubberised motorcycling gear. A few months back, I was lucky enough to win a Belstaff 'Ironhyde' coat:

It's a heavyweight beast, in the same kind of waterproofed material used to make Belstaff's famous Black Prince suits, and generates a lot of heat. It's quite a technical garment too, with all sorts of little functional details like the shoulder flap that fastens over the front to stop rain getting in, and the through-crotch thing that stops the coat blowing up in strong winds. It seems also to be possible to strap the coat's 'skirts' around one's legs, presumably to make it easier to wear it on a motorcycle.

I'm wondering if anyone here can shed some light on the history of these coats. I'm pretty sure Belstaff didn't patent the Black Prince 'plasticated' stuff until the 1950s, but I think the coat's design is based on earlier despatch rider outfits and may have been available in heavy gaberdine or the like.

Can anyone tell me more?

Yes, you are correct. Made at Bestaff's factory in Caroline Street, Longton, Stoke-on-Trent frm the early 1950s until the early 1960s. The Ironhyde (name of the fabric) was as you say developed from the post-war 'dispatch rider's coat' that was in proofed canvas and that was in turn developed from the 'Coat, Rubberised, Motorcyclist' of WW2. I worked for Belstaff until 1975 and you wll appreciate that some details are hazy after all that time (and frankly, I and the other young m/c bucks who worked there weren't particulrly interested in 'old mens' coats') but I seem to remember that the coat preceded the Black Prince suit by a few years.

That must have cost you a bundle in postage!

Alan

 

[PADDY]

Auld Ironhyde Eardley to the rescue

Just knew you would come in riding to the rescue there Alan :eusa_clap

You could almost see the lightbulbs switching on simualtaneously with myself and Martin as soon as Belstaff was mentioned...."ALAN'S THE MAN!"

 

[Black Prince]

Thanks, Alan! I guess I'm a little odd in my penchant for "old mens' coats". With the 'Ironhyde', I like the heaviness and the amount of detail (which might look like overstyling if it weren't all so robustly functional). It really is impermeable in rain but, if my journey includes Tube or other public transport, it can quickly become uncomfortably humid. The sacrifices we make for style!

And yes, it did cost a bundle on postage.

I'm very fond of Belstaff's classic motorcycling gear but have had problems with the company itself since the Italians took over and it became more fashionable in the wake of George Clooney, Kate Moss, etc. I have a ten-year-old Trailmaster in thick but supple black leather. One of the press-stud fastenings on the front flap became detached and I've had real problems finding anyone willing/able to repair it. Wandering into the flagship store off Regent Street, I was met with blank stares and the suggestion that "they probably don't do those anymore". Pity.

 

[Alan Eardley]

Repairing press studs

That shouldn't be a problem - any competent leather repair shop should have a stock of assorted studs and the tool to do the repair with (will that phrase get deleted, I wonder?). You can buy small packs of studs and a weak version of the closing tool at most craft stores if you want to DIY.

Now, if it was thirty years old, it would have Newey press studs. Aye, classic they were. And Lightning zips. Real zips, they were. Who does that Kate Moss ride for then, Triumph or Norton?

Alan

 

[nightandthecity]

we had a thread touched on the WW2 DR coat a while back, I posted some pics you might find interesting

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=11845&highlight=despatch

"PLASTICATED FABRIC" eh!! Only back in the 50s and 60s would that have been used as a selling point. I once had a 1950s tartan band jacket - loud Royal Stewart tartan just like Bill Haley wore - whose label proudly announced "100% pure nylon"!

There was also quite a vogue in 50s and 60s Britain for faux-leather vinyl bike jackets, a few of them remarkably convincing, most of them unspeakably horrid

 

[Alan Eardley]

Plastic

I believe the process that Belstaff used for many of its bike garments was developed by the son-in-law of the founder, Harry Grossberg. The original DR coats were canvas with a rubberised backing, of course. Harry's brainwave was to reverse the material, so that it was rubber (later vynil) with a canvas backing!

Ironhyde may not have been the most beautiful of fabrics, but its toughness and weatherproof performance would but FQHH to shame.

Alan

 

[Hal]

...I guess I'm a little odd in my penchant for "old mens' coats"...With the 'Ironhyde', I like the heaviness and the amount of detail (which might look like overstyling if it weren't all so robustly functional). It really is impermeable in rain but, if my journey includes Tube or other public transport, it can quickly become uncomfortably humid. The sacrifices we make for style!

Black Prince, you're not alone in a liking for what Alan E.'s colleagues at Belstaff called "old men's coats". There's a smartness about a full-length coat that no short jacket can match. I also like the detail and the weight, of the Belstaff coat pictured, its gabardine counterparts, and the original despatch rider's coat. Worn over leathers and with overtrousers and boots as in your avatar, such coats would give excellent protection when motorcycling in very bad weather and could be so worn today.
You imply that you have worn it off a bike, as street wear. While I fear, with you, that global warming will before long make such clothes impracticable, nonetheless such a coat would look great under the right circumstances - what other clothes might go with it?

 

[Black Prince]

Apologies for having been away from this place for so long. I didn't see your post, Hal.

You imply that you have worn it off a bike, as street wear. While I fear, with you, that global warming will before long make such clothes impracticable, nonetheless such a coat would look great under the right circumstances - what other clothes might go with it?

I have indeed worn my Belstaff coat 'casually' - when it's been cold and rainy - and it feels great. It's a little too heavy for city 'smart' (the one time I tried it as an overcoat, it generated such heat that it steamed wrinkles into my suit) but works well either over leathers and boots (Lewis Leathers) or over jeans and a crew-neck sweater.

Never quite sure what sort of hat would go with it, if any.

 

[Aviakid]

Belstaff Coat

Dear Forumites,
I'm new to the website and read the thread on the Belstaff rubberised/pvc coat with interest. I have a Belstaff catalogue dating from 1936 and it features a Senior TT Competition of similar design to the Ironhyde. The coat is made in "Heavyweight Black rubber-proofed Beaverteen, guaranteed non-cracking and non-peeling," so it is evident that Belstaff were making their rubberised waterproof coats long ago. There were others too, Wareings had some, as did Halfords, Marble Arch Motorcycle Supplies and J A Grose, all pre WW2.
Incidentally, the 1936 Belstaff catalogue is very light on clothing, around 85% of the catalogue contains tents, groundsheets and bags, incidentally the catalogue doesn't feature any flying gear as can be found in the D Lewis Ltd (later Lewis Leathers) catalogues of the day.

 

[Alan Eardley]

Dear Forumites,
I'm new to the website and read the thread on the Belstaff rubberised/pvc coat with interest. I have a Belstaff catalogue dating from 1936 and it features a Senior TT Competition of similar design to the Ironhyde. The coat is made in "Heavyweight Black rubber-proofed Beaverteen, guaranteed non-cracking and non-peeling," so it is evident that Belstaff were making their rubberised waterproof coats long ago. There were others too, Wareings had some, as did Halfords, Marble Arch Motorcycle Supplies and J A Grose, all pre WW2.
Incidentally, the 1936 Belstaff catalogue is very light on clothing, around 85% of the catalogue contains tents, groundsheets and bags, incidentally the catalogue doesn't feature any flying gear as can be found in the D Lewis Ltd (later Lewis Leathers) catalogues of the day.

That's correct, as far as I know. When I worked there, I was told by the old-timers (some of whom had worked there in the 30s) that Harry Grossberg (son-in-law of the founder Mr. Belovitch) had developed the rubberised material in the late 20s or early 30s thirties, by effectively reversing the principle of macintosh cloth (i.e. sandwiching the cloth between layers of rubber, rather than the other way around). The company's staple products of the prewar period reflected the 'lifestyle' of its local market - mainly hikers, cyclists and campers, the popular youth pursuits. Not many people in an area like the Potteries could afford a motorcycle at the time, let alone an aeroplane! The stuff about Belstaff making flying clothing before WW2 is largely publicity BS by the present owners.

Do you know anything about D. Godfrey Lewis of London, by the way?

Alan

 

[Black Prince]

I have a Belstaff catalogue dating from 1936 and it features a Senior TT Competition of similar design to the Ironhyde. The coat is made in "Heavyweight Black rubber-proofed Beaverteen, guaranteed non-cracking and non-peeling," so it is evident that Belstaff were making their rubberised waterproof coats long ago. There were others too, Wareings had some, as did Halfords, Marble Arch Motorcycle Supplies and J A Grose, all pre WW2.

Interesting. "Beaverteen" sounds faintly dirty...

I do wonder about the overlapping of different firms and manufacturers. The Black Prince name is indelibly associated with Belstaff but it does seem that others tried to get in on the act too. I'm hoping Mr Eardley can shed some light on this ad I came across on eBay, for what seems like a competitor for (or, perhaps simply a rip-off of) Belstaff's Black Prince suit, Armadrake:

And am I right in thinking the best-selling Black Prince suit was descended from the likes of my 'Ironhyde' coat?