before automatic transmissions

[The Wolf]

I believe automatic is post Golden Era. I've heard of fluid drive and "three on the tree". What were those?
I presume Wild Root and many of you knowledgable car folk can help.

Sincerely,
The Wolf

 

[Lancealot]

"Three on the tree" is the slang for a three speed manual transmission shifter on the steering column. There is also the term "four in the floor" being the four speed shifter in the floor between the front seats.

 

[jamespowers]

I believe automatic is post Golden Era. I've heard of fluid drive and "three on the tree". What were those?
I presume Wild Root and many of you knowledgable car folk can help.

Sincerely,
The Wolf

Deferrring to Root on when the automatic transmission came out, Three on the Tree is just a three speed shift on the column. It was still a shift. They had that into the 60s. Give me the plain old floor shift. You have to think too much otherwise.

Regards,

J

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

According to this,...

1940. http://ask.yahoo.com/20011022.html

But I coulda swore it was earlier! Late twenties Cadilac or something,....[huh]

 

[scotrace]

Mainstreamed in the Olds and Cadillacs - Hydramatic Drive.


They shift fast and hard - stomp it and they chirp in every gear.

 

[Dixon Cannon]

Hand crank...

My dad told me a story of hand cranking his Chevy back in the '20's sometime. The engine backfired, the hand crank swing around and shattered his wrist. Can you imagine hand cranking your car engine??? (on a cold, wet, moonless night, no doubt!)

(Heck, this may be the car! It certainly is Dad!)

The shifting was the easy part!

-dixon cannon

 

[SGB]

There's an opening under the radiator for a crank on my 1930 1 1/2 ton stake bed Chevy truck. No crank, just the hole. If the engine won't start with the starter, then it just won't start, I'm not trying to hand crank a truck 6 cylinder engine.

SGB

 

[The Reno Kid]

My 39 Ford can still be started with a crank. I have never tried it, but the crank was still a standard item in the tool kit then.

The first production auto transmissions were in the 1940 Oldsmobiles. They didn't really take off until after the war though.

 

[Mike in Seattle]

My dad told me a story of hand cranking his Chevy back in the '20's sometime. The engine backfired, the hand crank swing around and shattered his wrist. Can you imagine hand cranking your car engine??? (on a cold, wet, moonless night, no doubt!)

The shifting was the easy part!

-dixon cannon

And you never cranked with your thumb in a normal grip. Your thumb stayed alongside the rest of your hand, rather than coming around to intersect your index finger. The reason - if there was a backfire or kickback, with your thumb in the standard grip, it would strain or break your thumb, or worse, rip your thumb off. When I worked in a gas station in the mid 1970's as a summer job during high school, the owner had been working on cars since the 20's and would explain stuff like that.

 

[up196]

Speaking of cranks . . .

The reason the crank hole remained for so long after the self starter was so that the crank could be used to slowly turn the engine so it could be timed correctly, not so much to start the car. The advent of timing lights made manually timing the engine obsolete . . . Tom

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

My brother had a 60's Sunbeam Alpine that had a crank, and it's a good thing it did as the starter (among other parts) would burn up every couple of months or so. :eusa_doh:
Luckily, my dad was a mechanic.

 

[Tony in Tarzana]

My parents' 1961 Morris Minor 1000 still had the crank hole. Also, my Dad told a story about crank starting his friend's 1912 Rolls-Royce on a bet. This would probably have been in the 1930s.

The GM Hydra-Matic, a four speed planetary transmission with a fluid coupling was first used on a trial basis in 1939, I think. The Chrysler Fluid Drive, which was nothing more than a conventional 3-speed manual with a clutch plus a fluid coupling first came out at just about the same time. Dodges got them in 1941, and I'm not sure when or if Plymouths got them.

I find the Fluid Drive very interesting, as it addresses one specific problem with a manual transmission, and that is moving off from a stop. You still had to use the clutch to put the car in gear and to shift gears, but once you put it in gear you just let the clutch out and the fluid coupling would handle the takeoff. I've never driven one but I'd bet it's a boon when you're stopped on a hill.

In 1968, VWs and Porsches were available with pretty much the same setup, the only difference was that the clutch was operated electrically and controlled by a microswitch on the gear shift rather than a clutch pedal. VW called it the "Automatic Stickshift" and Porsche called it the "Sportomatic."

 

[Powerhouse]

:eusa_doh:
I hope I never have to hand crank my 31 Sport Roadster to get it goin'!! I like my limbs attached and in working condition! Although it might be fun...

My 39 has a port for the crank to help with the timing...

Anyway, back to tranny's...Uh... I mean on an automobile. I have driven a 41 Chrysler with fluid drive. My pal has one... it is interesting to drive and very easy. Although it seems to lack the power of a standard.

I have a floor shifter in my 39 P7. It was actually sort of rare to have a floor shifter in the 39 Plymouths. They introduced remote control shifting in that year...that was the 3 on tree thing. I prefer the floor shifter. They were actually leftovers from 38. Nothing like that big stick in your hand while driving...Uh.... well never mind. lol lol

 

[Twitch]

This is my Packard's column shifter. Here it is positioned up in like 2nd gear. The patternss were the same as floor shifts in an H. 1st, 2nd, 3rd & reverse. Yoy pull in and down to engage 1st then as the engines winds up you push up and forward towards the windshield to hit 2nd. Then straight down for 3rd. The only time you can goof up is going up to 2nd when it is possible to grind reverse's gears but it will not go in. The 2nd to 3rd never ever misses and hits 1st. You coulddo it on purpose or if you were braindead.

The old cars could lug at low RPMs and pull from 10 MPH in 2nd easily so 90% of your driving was 2nd and 3rd gears. There is no synchronization on 1st so you MUST be stopped to engage it. You can downshift to 2nd on the move but the old mechanisms were still not as precise as today's and with use will balk a bit. The big old cars are easy to coast in once they have inertia too. Pop it into neutral- in the middle of the H- and coast 1/4 mile to the next light.

 

[The Wolf]

Nice responses everybody. I got some great information.
But where's Wild Root?[huh]

Sincerely,
The Wolf

 

[Terry Lennox]

Deferrring to Root on when the automatic transmission came out, Three on the Tree is just a three speed shift on the column. It was still a shift. They had that into the 60s. Give me the plain old floor shift. You have to think too much otherwise.

Regards,

J

3 on a tree goes well in to the 70's.

and of course the saying... 4 on the floor and a fifth under the seat...

 

[Bill O'Rights]

Three on the Tree is just a three speed shift on the column. It was still a shift. They had that into the 60s.

3 on a tree goes well in to the 70's.

Just for reference sake...I have a 1977 Chevy pickup, that has "three on the tree". After that...I cannot say for certain.

I actually got into an argument once, with a kid that was convinced that the truck was an automatic, just because the shifter was on the steering column. He couldn't explain the presence of th clutch pedal, though.

 

[Tony in Tarzana]

When I graduated from high school in '78, I looked at a lot of car brochures and read a lot of magazines, and I remember Chevies still being available with three on the tree. So, I'd say definitely '78, perhaps '79.

I'll bet the last American vehicle with a manual column shift was probably a full-size van. Hard to get a floor shift in one of those, although they did do that later on.

Mecedes-Benz cars in the 1950s had four-on-the-tree!

 

[jamespowers]

When I graduated from high school in '78, I looked at a lot of car brochures and read a lot of magazines, and I remember Chevies still being available with three on the tree. So, I'd say definitely '78, perhaps '79.

I'll bet the last American vehicle with a manual column shift was probably a full-size van. Hard to get a floor shift in one of those, although they did do that later on.

Mecedes-Benz cars in the 1950s had four-on-the-tree!

Holy Crimony! I didn't think they lasted that long! Never had one never will. Four on the floor is the only way to go.

Regards,

J

 

[Tony in Tarzana]

You could get a Super Fly '78 Monte Carlo with a stovebolt Six and three-on-the-tree. I don't know if anybody actually did, but it was in the brochure! lol