Beaver Brand Hats, gone?

[1961MJS]

Hi

If the place is what I saw last year, it's already a small concern. It was probably 50' by 100' tin shed with a glass front door and a loading dock. New Haven is in the middle of old German Missouri and it's in the middle of NO WHERE. I could live there, but I'm not particularly artistic so the hat biz might not be a good match.

Later

 

[gtdean48]

... Stetson will probably be among the last up and around because of the name only.
....

Actually, all Stetson is is the name...HatCo will be making western hats for Resistol & Stetson for the duration. That is where their revenues come from. The Quarter Horse Congress just finished in Columbus, OH & the AQHA World Show will be in OKC soon followed by the NRHA Futurity with the NCHA Futurity in Fort Worth & PRCA Finals in Las Vegas. Attend any of these events or watch a webcast or ESPN broadcast. You'll see where HatCo makes their bread.....

 

[tonyb]

Personally I don't agree with the analysis. I don't think it's quality that holds back hat buyers, and that TFL buyers are a small number in the scheme of things. Hatmakers need a mass market, and they have yet to find one. I do think hatmakers to some degree are at fault, but it's on style grounds and not on quality of felt grounds. I have to think if some different hat brands like Borsalino (in its many models) were more widely available and sold, that hats would catch on more. From the point of view of the manufacturers though, I think they have not cracked the solution yet. I think the solution is with a wider variety of good styles.

I think you're mostly right, Dan. "Proper" hats haven't been a part of the average man's life for more than half a century now, so the average potential hat buyer wouldn't know a quality hat from a POS. But he may be sold on style -- proportions, crown profile, etc., etc. -- because that's what he sees. And who could fault him for that? After all, hats are still unusual enough that any "proper" hat will distinguish its wearer, and all but the terribly ill-adjusted would prefer that distinction be a favorable one.

And you and gtdean are right about what a small sliver of the populace, even the potentially hat-buying populace, people like us are. The Stetson Nostalgia (a nice-lookin' hat, I think most of us would say) was a sales flop. Or so I've heard. That could be on account of the retailers thinking they couldn't move 'em (they came open crowned, which is sufficiently unusual these days that it may have been off-putting), and therefore didn't order them, so that very few potential consumers ever saw them. But that's pure speculation on my part.

 

[LoveMyHats2]

Darn and Drats....sad news indeed.

 

[Walt]

No response from my email to them. Guess a phone call is required to see if a live person answers---doesn't look too promising.

I imagine profit margins and sales volumes are generally very tight for these companies especially with non-Western hats. The analysis that Western hats are the main revenue generators of these companies is spot on. Beaver, as with Hat Co, probably does the bulk of their sales in Western hats, but with a more niche area in the Beaver Brand towards less modern Western styles (tall crowns instead of shallow cattleman for example). Beaver Brand (BB) is popular with those that are into 19th century costume dress up like that at Single Action Shooting Society (SASS) and Cowboy Action Shooting. Whereas Stetson and Resistol are more the Rodeo circuit and Country & Western Honky Tonk crowd. Since these companies are secretive about sales info of course all we can do is speculate.

Last year Wild West Mercantile (or was it the year before) dropped BB because of price hikes in their hats apparently because of increases in hat body/fur prices. WWM carried some nice old west style BB hats and I would have grabbed one at the clearance prices but they had already had a run on them when I found out so only small sizes were left.... :-(

We have to face the reality that we as Fedora lovers (especially wide brimmed, tall crown, etc) are a niche market (not large enough sales volumes). If hat companies could sell millions of the fedoras we like like they did back in the glory days we would see better quality and a better price point for that quality but since us fanatics aren't going to buy that many it ain't happening! :cry:

BB did seem to have something going with the large selection of felt colors though some were a little too funky, ghetto hood/pimpish for me! Perfect for those 70's urban ghetto movies!

Outside of western hats the next largest non-ball cap market is probably the stingy brim hats like I mostly see the under 40 hipsters wearing (average age I would guess is early 20's). I see more of those hats in South West Idaho where I am than anything else these days (other than ball caps of course which is the most common). This area used to be a cowboy hat area, but now those are far fewer (except at the Rodeos, honky tonks, and cowboy shooting events) and the average age of general public wearing (outside of the exceptions) of those and wide brimmed fedoras has got to be about 70!

I wonder if BB has had problems getting their hipster stingy hats into the retailing sector---at least I never see those in my area--too bad because that would probably have been their best bet for increasing sales--I wouldn't be surprised it comes down to not having deeper pockets like hatco or the companies who make all of their hats in China anymore.

Some of the Western tack stores in my area carried BB Western though. In fact I think I'll have to visit mine to see what they have in stock and ask them if they have heard anything about the company. Who knows, maybe I'll add to my hat deficit spending to get something before they're gone!

 

[tonyb]

You got it about right, Walt. Westerns outsell "dress" hats by large margins. And you're right: the people who prefer the types of dress hats most often seen in this joint are without a doubt a niche in that already small(ish) segment of the market.

I suspect that most people who buy cowboy hats (and boots) wouldn't know which end of a horse to feed, so it isn't that their hat style preferences are occupationally related. This is no slam of those folks, by the way; I wear pointy-toed cowboy boots myself, and I haven't been atop a horse in at least 40 years. (Well, there was that drunken night in Tacoma a few years back. Or was that a cow?)

But what it is, I think, is that cowboy drag has become something of a cultural signifier. For a portion of the population -- a minority, for sure, but a substantial minority -- the Western attire serves as a group identifier. It kinda says "I'm not urban, not hip, I don't listen to rap music, etc., and I don't mind letting the world know that."

Lest someone jump on me for painting with too broad a brush, let me qualify the above by adding that I'm referring to only a portion of those drawn to Western wear. Some people just like the look. (Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, etc.) I include myself in that bunch, with certain reservations. I don't wear cowboy hats, but I wear boots and blue jeans and the occasional shirt with faux-pearl snaps. And I can see how a person might prefer a pickup truck to a Camry, even if he never will transport so much as a single bale of hay.

 

[danofarlington]

Western culture is a hat culture. In that sense I envy it.

 

[Walt]

You got it about right, Walt. Westerns outsell "dress" hats by large margins. And you're right: the people who prefer the types of dress hats most often seen in this joint are without a doubt a niche in that already small(ish) segment of the market.

I suspect that most people who buy cowboy hats (and boots) wouldn't know which end of a horse to feed, so it isn't that their hat style preferences are occupationally related. This is no slam of those folks, by the way; I wear pointy-toed cowboy boots myself, and I haven't been atop a horse in at least 40 years. (Well, there was that drunken night in Tacoma a few years back. Or was that a cow?)

But what it is, I think, is that cowboy drag has become something of a cultural signifier. For a portion of the population -- a minority, for sure, but a substantial minority -- the Western attire serves as a group identifier. It kinda says "I'm not urban, not hip, I don't listen to rap music, etc., and I don't mind letting the world know that."

There definitely has been a trend since at least the late 70's for Western style wear to be more about the honky tonk and urban cowboy scene than the attire of cowboys and farmers. Around here most farmers wear ballcaps and most horse people are only wearing hats on horseback and then it's those riding hard helmets (think bicycle type) anymore unless it is a rodeo or ceremonial/parade setting then you will see the cowboy hat.

 

[tonyb]

There definitely has been a trend since at least the late 70's for Western style wear to be more about the honky tonk and urban cowboy scene than the attire of cowboys and farmers. Around here most farmers wear ballcaps and most horse people are only wearing hats on horseback and then it's those riding hard helmets (think bicycle type) anymore unless it is a rodeo or ceremonial/parade setting then you will see the cowboy hat.

True, that. When I worked on a ranch in my late teens, we wore work boots (steel-toed, preferably) and if we wore hats at all, it was those one-size-fits-most, cheap straw fedora style things with the front of the brim a green plastic visor, and the size adjustment being the buckle of the left side of the band, where the bow would be on a fancier hat. We wore those hats in the summer, while bucking bales and such, because they served their purpose about as well as anything, and they were quite inexpensive, maybe a couple-three bucks at the little store in town.

But then, we didn't ride horses, either. Mechanized contraptions is how we got around.

 

[Walt]

Doing some google searches many of the stores that used to carry their products no longer do so. I know that often the hats were special ordered rather than stocked so it will probably be hard to find many new stock to buy. Darn! There were a few models I was hoping to buy but my budget kept going to vintage so never got around to it....

 

[Walt]

I always wanted a River Runner by Beaver Brand. Guess I'd better see if any are left...

Ordered the light olive...see if the order goes thru....
http://www.johnhelmer.com/prod.itml/icOid/35

Do you know how stiff the felt on the crown is? Wondering how hard to reshape it might be...

Looks like many of the online retailers that used to list Beaver are no longer doing so.

Since most of their orders seemed to be with a wait time stock is probably going to be scarce.

 

[danofarlington]

My impression is that Beaver Brand hats are stiff hats, which is why I never bought one. But I don't know if that's true.

 

[gtdean48]

Do you know how stiff the felt on the crown is? Wondering how hard to reshape it might be...
...

No idea Walt. I did have an old Beaver Brand western hat & it was fairly stiff.
I am expecting something along the lines of a Stetson Roadmaster, which took some effort to reshape.
Nothing like a modern Open Road but still a factory pressed-in crease & good dose of shellac.
I'm hoping John Helmer had some in stock & probably should've waited for dispersal sale.
Now my regret is not getting a Biltmore Open Door from Miller's.....spoiled by Akubra Campdrafts.....

 

[Joshbru3]

Now my regret is not getting a Biltmore Open Door from Miller's....

You and I both, Tom! I should have gotten a Biltmore Open Door. When I first started getting into hats I bought a brand new Biltmore Senator. Its felt was smooth and dense. It resembled vintage felt more so than something from Hatco.

 

[gtdean48]

You and I both, Tom! I should have gotten a Biltmore Open Door. When I first started getting into hats I bought a brand new Biltmore Senator. Its felt was smooth and dense. It resembled vintage felt more so than something from Hatco.

Frank, frussell, had an Open Door. I think he sent it back...have to see if I can find his posts on it....with that type of felt, it really stings not getting one!!!!

 

[1961MJS]

Hi

IN MY OPINION, and based on the Fedora Store, Beaver Brand wasn't exactly a pre-made hat company like Stetson. They also weren't a custom hat store like Tony. They were a funky offshoot in between. They didn't have a conformatour to send you, but they would make pretty much any hat in any size with any ribbon. They also cost less than any of the custom places, just not enough to make me buy one. I think that when they last had the fedora store up and running, a fur felt hat was $245 or so. That's more than Mike Moores custom fur felts and not enough less than Tony's Beaver fedoras to make me buy one.

Beaver brand also sold pre-made stuff to many stores including Levine's where I bought mine. It's a Stony River (I think) nice hat, but not QUITE my style. It was a good learning hat and I wear it regularly.

Later

 

[tonyb]

I don't know if the recently departed Beaver Brand is the same business entity as the one that made Beaver Brand hats a couple of decades ago, but I'm left to assume, based on what they said about themselves on their own website, that it is at the very least a legitimate continuation of a brand name that has been around for a long, long time, and whose hats weren't bad at all, at least not the few I've come across over the years.

It would be interesting to know what killed the enterprise, although it's doubtful we'll ever read a reasonably faithful account of it. Here's hoping it can be resurrected. Failing that, we can hope its equipment is put to good use elsewhere.

Our Matt Deckard's experience with them clearly showed that they were capable of producing hats in whatever styles a retailer might ask for, so for that reason alone it's a real loss that they aren't around anymore.

 

[Undertow]

You and I both, Tom! I should have gotten a Biltmore Open Door. When I first started getting into hats I bought a brand new Biltmore Senator. Its felt was smooth and dense. It resembled vintage felt more so than something from Hatco.

I purchased two Biltmore Senators prior to the end of the line. The felt is quite dense and pleasing - much better hand than modern Hatco hats.

 

[gtdean48]

I always wanted a River Runner by Beaver Brand. Guess I'd better see if any are left...

Ordered the light olive...see if the order goes thru....
http://www.johnhelmer.com/prod.itml/icOid/35

Just got this emal from John Helmer personnel.....

We have just found out recently that Beaver Brand, the company that makes the hat that you have ordered in closing. Unforunately we are out of the River Runner in light olive in 7 5/8 and are unable to get more. I do have still have a black in stock if you are interested in substituting another color. Sorry about the inconvenience.

Since I already have a black OR, I canceled my order...

 

[hatsRme]

Statistics...

Dangnabbbit, but statistically speaking, as a percentage of the general population, we who appreciate and buy quality hats equal 0%!! Makes it financially difficult to accomodate us on a large scale