Authority of Private Investigators?

[Polyhistor]

Lately I´ve been reading some of the books of Ray Chandler and also The Maltese Falcon by Dashiel Hammett. One thing I´ve been wondering was, what authority (hope that´s the right terminus technicus here) did private investigators of the Golden Era possess, what actual rights did having a PI license include, in comparison to, let´s say, being a police officer?

Regards, A.

 

[Shaul-Ike Cohen]

Zero, I guess.

I suppose it's like today: you need a licence to work as a PI in most US states as well as in the UK and many other countries, with a variety of requirements like experience working for another PI, proof of knowledge of certain things like specific laws, an empty criminal record and so on.

So, it's just as legal or illegal to wiretap 'phones, enter private houses, get records from 'phone companies and offices, or examine dustbins as it is for any private person. (Guns are treated separately anyway.)

You don't get any rights except for the right to work as a PI - some states don't even allow you to say you're licenced on your business cards, because every PI is, and it might look as if you're connected to some official authority.

In my view, licences are a very reasonable thing. They're there to protect the PI's clients.

 

[TM]

Hello!

It's been a long time since I was a PI, so my information is dated.

However, if you go to the California Department of Consumer Affairs:

http://www.dca.ca.gov/bsis/pi_faq.htm

you will find a number of items, including this:

14. Can a Private Investigator do anything that a police officer can do?
No. A Private Investigator has no law enforcement authority even if he/she has been hired by law enforcement to perform an investigation. A Private Investigator is an ordinary citizen and can only make citizen's arrests.

23. Can a Private Investigator enter property without an owner's consent?
No. A Private Investigator may not enter any private building without owner's consent.

24. Can a Private Investigator use a badge?
No. A Private Investigator may not carry or wear a badge in connection with an investigation since it may mislead others to believe that he or she is a peace officer or other government official.

Private Investigation is a regulated profession, like Barbers and Interior Decorators. The state is attempting to protect the consumer from, say with Interior Decorators, the peril of a bad couch.

PI's have no greater authority than a typical citizen, just more responsibility.

And none of this is ever portrayed in movies.

Tony

 

[Shaul-Ike Cohen]

And none of this is ever portrayed in movies.

Unfortunately I don't remember where, but I do remember scenes where the ladies at their doors look at the PIs' business cards and says things like "So you're a private dick. That means I don't have to answer your questions or let you in, right?"

Also, to get records, movie privates always need a friend, either a former date, still bearing a grudge, or an old drinking pal he knows from when they used to be on the beat together.

And when they routinely break in, tap 'phones or read other people's mail, they don't do this openly, so the viewer understands it's illegal.

Lastly, welcome to the Lounge!

 

[Andykev]

I would rather be a bounty hunter.

But bounty hunters can kick in your door, anytime, and without a warrant, throw you in the trunk of a car, and kidnap you literally. Look it up!

 

[TM]

Hello!

And Bounty Hunters, at least in California, are also regulated:

http://www.dca.ca.gov/bsis/bail_recover.htm

"A Bail Fugitive Recovery Person is someone who tracks down criminal defendants who fail to show up in court after a bond company has posted their bail. They are commonly known as "Bounty Hunters."

The Bail Fugitive Recovery Act of 1999 established for the first time in California educational and training requirements for Bail Fugitive Recovery.

The Bureau of Security and Investigative Services, the Commission on Peace Officer Standards and Training (POST) and the Department of Insurance each have regulatory authority over different aspects of the law."

I agree that if you want action, Bounty Hunting is the way to go. As far as I am concerned, as a PI, I was once slapped by a little old lady.

Shaul-Ike Cohen points out the essential ambiguity of PI's. The public still has only a hazy idea of what power or authority thay may have.

And to Shaul-Ike Cohen, thanks for welcoming me! I've been watching this group for a long, long time. I'm not a clothes hog, I don't even have a Fedora, only a single beat-up Panama. Also, I'm not really a Golden Era guy, I'm a Post-War guy. But I find a lot of the tangential discussions very interesting.

Tony

 

["Doc" Devereux]

I find a lot of the tangential discussions very interesting.

That makes two of us - it's what keeps me coming back.

Welcome, Tony. Hope you enjoy participatng as much as you have reading, if not more.

 

[Story]

I would think the Private Investigators of the 1930's were less subject to (or concerned with) liability suits, than those of today.

 

[Polyhistor]

Thanks, guys!
I did as well suppose PI´s of the Golden Era were given no authority that would go beyond that of a normal citizen. Though I guess some of them will surely have taken advantage of people not knowing exactly what they (PI´s that is) were allowed to do...

I also did some research on what PI´s are allowed in Austria, which is essentially the same as in the US, it seems.
Funny how this profession that´s thought to be exciting and not for the faint-hearted actually doesn´t quite live up to what people think it is.

Seems like an interesting profession nonetheless.

Regards, A.

PS: Welcome TM!

 

[Paisley]

I don't know if a private investigator's work is very exciting, but I imagine a bounty hunter's work is. Dog Chapman, who now has a TV show, used to live in Denver. He tracked down two men who defrauded my former employer out of over $1 million. Unfortunately, they were in a garage with the car left running.

Later on, he tracked down a rapist who fled to Mexico. Chapman was thrown in jail in Mexico for his trouble.

He now lives in Hawaii and works with his wife, son and nephew. I usually don't like reality shows, but his is pretty interesting. He's more of a character than the policemen on "COPS."

 

[Shaul-Ike Cohen]

Funny how this profession that´s thought to be exciting and not for the faint-hearted actually doesn´t quite live up to what people think it is.

Absolutely. Formerly it meant collecting usable evidence for adultery, nowadays with changed divorce laws, it's mainly business misdemeanors. Unless you specialise on tracking teenage runaways.

An then there are the information service jobs like background checks on potential employees or spouses, often a technical routine without leaving your (online) desk.

Wasn't it Austria where detectives and store detectives are completely separate things?

 

[TM]

I’ve never been particularly interested in the history of Private Investigators before. But it looks like in America, they started here in the mid-1850’s with Pinkerton’s. For most of the 19th century, the federal government had little ability to police the western territories, or to pursue interstate crimes and fugitives. The railroads, having been constantly victimized by bandits, very much needed a far-ranging police force. And Pinkerton’s fitted the bill.

These PI’s were armed and basically followed the law of the railroad. Perhaps the best cinematic portrayal is in the Sam Peckinpah film “The Wild Bunch”. No, not the loser bounty hunters that pursue the Bunch. But look to the flashback sequence where Robert Ryan and William Holden are in the bordello. Holden escapes, but Ryan is shot and handcuffed by the PI’s. No Miranda Rights here.

Even the Justice Department, founded in 1870, hired PI’s to investigate federal crimes.

As the west became, shall we say, civilized, police powers became the prerogative of governmental entities. The FBI was created in 1908. In 1910 the Mann Act was passed which allowed federal agents to pursue interstate criminals. This rendered the need for these hired guns obsolete. There must also have been a social policy to reign in these wild cannons who were “out there operating without any decent restraint, totally beyond the pale of any acceptable human conduct.” (to quote "Apocalypse Now" in a different context).

In 1915 California fist stated to regulate PI’s. And as we would expect, regulations become more extensive as time goes by. So by the Film Noir times, PI’s couldn’t just shoot someone and arrest him anymore. And in 1923 it became illegal to carry a concealed weapon without a license in California.

Tony

 

[up196]

Pinkertons

The railroads, having been constantly victimized by bandits, very much needed a far-ranging police force. And Pinkerton’s fitted the bill.

The Pinkertons evolved into today's Railroad Police, who, although they are employed by private companies, are commissioned police officers with nationwide authority.

 

[Brad Bowers]

The Pinkertons evolved into today's Railroad Police, who, although they are employed by private companies, are commissioned police officers with nationwide authority.

Hi up196,

I've been interested in the history of the Railroad Police, but haven't found much that has been published. Do you know about when they evolved into the police force, with the authority they have today?

Thanks,

Brad

 

[up196]

Railroad Police (a bit long)

Brad,

The Pinkerton Agency was a private agency contracted by the different railroads to provide security and investigative services, but were often seen as "outside contractors" who may not have had the railroad's intrests ahead of profits.

As the country expanded westward, railroad business was handled by "Agents" in the expanding areas. For instance, there were Freight Agents who handled freight and shipping, Ticket Agents sold fares and Claim Agents were responsible for any claims of damage or injuries. The railroads also employed "Special Agents", who represented the railroad in, well, "special matters".

Oftentimes, the Special Agents were hired by local or division superintendants, but by the 1890s, there were the beginnings of system-wide police departments. William T. Canada was appointed the Chief Special Agent of Unon Pacific's "Secret Services" on June 1, 1891, with authority over all railroads comprising the Union Pacific and its subsidiaries (that department was still known as "Security and Special Services" as late as 1990).

Legal authority was granted by the states, with legislation modeled after the first Railroad Police Act of the State of Pennsylvania, which passed in 1865, giving railroad officers statewide law enforcement powers.

Today, Railroad Police Officers are still commissioned by the state in which they are assigned, but Section 1704 of the Crime Control Act of 1990, effective March 14, 1994, provides that:

"A railroad police officer who is certified or commissioned as a police officer under the laws of any state shall, in accordance with the regulations issued by the Secretary of Transportation, be authorized to enforce the laws of any jurisdiction in which the rail carrier owns property." The ID card carries the notation "U.S. Federal Authority 49 USC 28101".

Hope this helps . . . up196

 

[Brad Bowers]

up196,

Thank you so much! This helps quite a bit.

Brad