Authenticity in the Vintage World?

[Davep]

I was wondering for those who do vintage image and clothing, how does the creater community look at the authenticity of the total image. What are the major areas which the community expects to see as authentic versus those areas which one can cut corners.

 

[FinalVestige79]

Its a personal preference on what era they want to dress...from Victorian / Edwardian - 1960s. Say for the 1940s...the style is very different from today in the cut of the suit, the materials used and etc. You can cut corners..but again its a personal preference on how vintage you want to be...its not like reenacting where everything is to the book...its civilian life. You have many many choice...from single breasted / double breasted suits, the types of lapels, the shoes, the hats. Its all depending on what that persons style is. You can choose how you dress.

I don't know if that answers your question...

When you ask about community are you asking our own community of vintage people...or the other community that dresses like today...t-shirts and jeans?

 

[Dinerman]

Take a look around the What are you wearing today thread. You'll find everything from modern with one or two choice vintage items to head to toe vintage, and everything in between. It's all up to you and what you like.

 

[benstephens]

Yes as Dinerman says, it is really personal choice. Unlike re-enacting, a lot of the people on here are not era specific, it is a fashion choice and statement to dress with a bit of flare and out of the norm.

I have been to vintage events all over the world. Apart from perhaps one I goto which is year specific, the rest will attract a great range of clothing from all different eras, styles and continents. Where as I may dress very 1930s, others will dress in the late 40s style, others in a 50s style, it is really personal choice, and people dress as they feel most comfatable

However, some on here do, including myself base our look on specific periods for one reason or other, either we re-enact or just like a specific style of a certain period. You will find a lot of debate around the lounge about what is right for a particular period. The best references are to look at the catologues and journals that people have posted in threads. They will give you the whole look, from hair to shoes.


Kindest Regards

Ben

 

[Solid Citizen]

Authentic

I was wondering for those who do vintage image and clothing, how does the creater community look at the authenticity of the total image. What are the major areas which the community expects to see as authentic versus those areas which one can cut corners.

Are you a reenactor? If so I understand your question, having been one myself over 15 year period.You may want to search for posts by Wildroot now known as Forgottenman since I've always been impressed with his period fashion presentation. Solid Citizen

 

[Hemingway Jones]

Housekeeping

Since this doesn't address a specific item and is rather more general in nature, I have moved it to the OB.

Carry on.

 

[Foofoogal]

those areas which one can cut corners

shoes. I personally mix and match and even sprinkle in vintage. I just appreciate all vintage and like people to wear them as they want. Everyone has their own style. I love creativity with vintage as long as the original piece is preserved.

 

[dhermann1]

Availability

Availability is another factor to consider. I've reached the age where my waistline has slipped a little (ahem), and authentic mens clothes are virtually non existent in my size. I just try to give an overall impression of "antiquity", using vintage ties and hats, mainly. Here and there I've accumulated a few other things (like a fabulous pair of vintage plus fours, which I wore at Governors Island).
Some of the younger chaps around here (here Dan seethes with resentment at the little whippersnappers) have a lot better luck finding vintage clothes that fit. There are lots of size 38 suits, not many 43.
Bottom line is that in the Vintage community, my Father's house has many mansions.

 

[Fletch]

I myself wear comparatively few vintage suits or shirts - for the same reasons as Dan. I do accessorize with ties and hats from the era.

I do shop carefully for new clothes that can pass for ca. 1935-1950 when accessorized well.

 

[Davep]

In the "reenacting world" authenticity is considered to be the holy grail. It's one of those things which everyone attempts to achieve but no one is perfect at. And just when someone thinks they've got it, an item is pointed out.

I was wondering "outside" of the reenacting world, i.e. the vintage world is there an sense of people being more authentic than others. And whether it is even an issue?

 

[dhermann1]

I get such a charge out of the authenticity thing with reenectors. Their waistlines always blow any verisimilitude totally out of the water! But what the hey, they're having fun.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I was wondering for those who do vintage image and clothing, how does the creater community look at the authenticity of the total image. What are the major areas which the community expects to see as authentic versus those areas which one can cut corners.

A fascinating question. I suspect that there is a typo in the thread's opening post: Davep wrote "creater community," but it seems he meant to say "greater community." In other words, the general public.


The greater community has strongly-held stereotypes in its 'collective mind' about what was worn when. That is, they associate the 1930s with pinstriped double-breasted suits and slinky satin 'Jean Harlow' gowns, while the 1890s bring handlebar moustaches and 'barbershop quartet' high-button jackets to mind.


Until the 1980s, most American movie costumers played up to these stereotypes: they weren't all that difficult to satisfy. From the early 1980s onward, however, some American films have successfully incorporated authentic period fashion into their costuming. I always refer to 1985's The Cotton Club, a film by Francis Ford Coppola, as an example.


Deep vintage enthusiasts believe that "God is in the details": they are fascinated by all the little things which the general public is blissfully ignorant about. Their opinions vary as to which corners, if any, can be cut: it depends more on the tolerance level of each deep enthusiast, and less on the unwritten rules of the community. For instance, I am a very deep enthusiast, yet my tolerance level of others' 'vintage inauthenticity' is pretty high. Several deep enthusiast friends of mine are more critical about such things, God love 'em.


My rule of thumb is, the harder to find the item (or a modern, but authentic-looking, version thereof), the more easily I will let slide its absence on someone. For example, dress shirts (vintage or modern) with authentically 1930s-esque long collars are extremely rare, so it doesn't bother me when I see guys dressed '30s whose shirt collars look 2009. I don't expect the near-impossible from people.


.

 

[Davep]

What happened in the "WW2 reenacting" world, was 40 years ago, there wasn't the availablity of clothing, gear, or rifles. There was no internet, no ebay, so people relied on word of mouth or flea markets.

As times progressed things became available, and repro vendors started making items. And with the advent of ebay, gear could exchange hands easier.

But as things improved so did the "standards for events". This lead to the coined phrase "Farbs" or "Farbee" which stands for:

(F)ar (Be) it for me to tell you that what you are wearing is not correct for the period.

What happens is people become "impression junkies" and collecting outfits. Which lead to "we are the most accurate unit" in the XYZ. So people claim to be more authentic than the next guy.

This video pokes fun at the whole process

[YOUTUBE]rsz3Fpy0Jkk[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Marc Chevalier]

For certain occasions, I try to look EXTREMELY 1930s accurate, be it with vintage, repro or vintage-esque modern. That said, I do NOT expect others to outfit themselves as accurately as that. Of course, I love running into other people who look "period perfect" ... but by no means do I demand it of anyone else.


.

 

[Miss 1929]

Everyone had to start somewhere!

I adore seeing a perfectly put-together vintage look, where all items are the real thing or perfect repros, and all are the same year. It takes dedication, intelligence, and time and money!

But I also adore seeing a new face at an event I have been going to for years, and if their outfit isn't perfect, but you can tell they made the attempt, then they get points for trying! I always try to connect with the newbies too, they often are very happy to get information, and they are the next generation.

As it is here in the Lounge, it is in the "greater community" - definitely the FarBees (love that) should be observed.

 

[Mid-fogey]

I guess it...

...depends on what you're doing.

I've been to Colonial Williamsburg and seen costumed interpreters in black sneakers. I've seen "hard core" Civil War and Revolutionary War reenactors that are far, far too old and fat to be in a infantry line regiment of either war. The fact that their thread counts and buttons are perfect doesn't really matter.

If you are doing an high fidelity impression, you need to fit every detail right, to include what a person like you might realistically be doing, wearing, etc.

If you are dressing in homage to the time, get "the look" basically right and don't let the fine details overwhelm you.

If you are making yourself happy with vintage items and classical styles, you are inventing your own reality -- do what you want.

 

[GallatinHatMan]

I am a Civil War Reenactor. More aptly a War Between the States one, since I reenact Confederate and I am often amused by the authenticity fanatics who soak their buttons in urine to get the right "patina" crowd. Unlike Union persona and WWII reenacting as you describe, Confederates, particularly after mid-1862 were very much come as you are. I have done both Eastern and Western theater and the East is certainly more rigid than the West. But the idea that everyone wore the same thing is simply, not historically correct. The same goes with civilian impressions. My wife also reenacts and makes all of her own clothes. She meticulously researches her dresses through first person descriptions, original photos and prints. Many look at the women's magazines of the day showing Paris fashions of 1860 as what a Nashville matron would wear when nothing could be further from the truth.

Study the dress you wish to emulate and do the best you can, remembering as has already been said, that individual variance rather than uniformity is often the rule even in military dress.

By the way, I'm also on the corpulent side for a real trooper in 1863, so I dress most often, Western Theater as they would have been outfitted in a Sumner County unit in 1861. My wife made my uniform from jeancloth we got from a Texas Tech project trying to replicate fabric at the time. I think my uniform is as much a replica as an impression.

 

[hatted]

Hey GHM, as a Confederate reenactor, I was wondering what you thought of the book "Confederates in the Attic?" Also, will you post some pic in costume?

 

[Guttersnipe]

I try to stay "period" correct in my vintage dressing...

...but then, I come from a reenacting background. It helps that I favor a particular era - post WW2 to early the early 50's in my case.

There is, however, much more flexibility when you are taking about civilian items. There is, after all, no such thing as the M1951 businessman's dress shoe which replaces the M1946 by '52

That said, though, I don't mix era's, I won't wear a 30's tie with a late 50's suit for example. I do, however, wear a lot of "vintage inspired" type clothes for daily workwear (Pendeltons shirts, Levis reissue red-lines, Chuck Taylor's, classic styled engineer boots, etc.). Although I usually mix in original items as well (a hat or a leather jacket, etc.).

Oh yeah, to GallatinHatMan: I think that peeing on the buttons thing is a myth. I know some really dyed in the wool, hardcore authenticity nuts and I've never actually heard of a specific person doing it...it also doesn't age the buttons either, btw (don't ask how I knowfftopic: ).

 

[GallatinHatMan]

Gutter, I agree it doesn't work. The guy across the street is well, hard core, and tried it. When I say hard core, he prefers to call himself a "campaigner" but the sleeping spoon style with a bunch of guys has no appeal for me.

Hatted, I'll have my wife take some photos the next time I am dressed and post them. She runs the "Gallatin Ghost Walk" and I think we have one coming up in a couple weeks. I dress as an 1861 Gallatin man ready to go in the Spring and talk about the area's Civil War history and she dresses in 1880's mourning attire and talks about the more "spirited" activities around town.