Attorneys and Barristers of the Lounge

[Ephraim Tutt]

Welcome back Bourbon Guy.

I'm afraid I'm rather ignorant of the legal system over there, but speaking as one from another land, it would come as a helluva surprise if official utterances from Uncle Sam were anything but conservative. It appears from afar that everything's for sale over there - especially your democracy.

 

[Bourbon Guy]

Do you have three hours to spare?

I will risk having this bumped off.

This is America according to BG:

Our way of governing ourselves can, from the outside, appear to be rather messy and corrupt and ugly. That's because it is sometimes. But that doesn't make us different, it just makes us honest about our humanity. We don't cover it up with horse-hair wigs and red robes and hereditary titles. Sure, our government contains its fair share of corrupt politicians and their money men. But any lawyer here will tell you that for every crook, we can show you a thousand honest, decent, hardworking American civil servants and politicians who just want to do a good job, make a living, and provide a good life for their families.

 

[Bourbon Guy]

By the way, it is my impression that Americans identify with Aussies and have a favorable attitude toward you.

Do you have a bifurcated legal system, like in England, with barristers and solicitors?
We don't.

 

[Ephraim Tutt]

Yes BG, I'm aware of your fused profession. Australia's situation varies depending on the jurisdiction. Here in Qld the two branches of solicitor and barrister remain, though all are now admitted as Australian lawyers and then decide which branch to join. In the recent past we were admitted as either barristers or solicitors. As a solicitor I have standing to appear in any court in Australia and can do all that a barrister does - and more. So we are not as divided as we once were - though I don't wear gowns and wigs.

 

[Bourbon Guy]

Interesting. Fact of it is, with specialization in the U.S., unless one is in a very small town, practice of law has naturally divided between trial lawyers and those who do everything else. And within trial lawyers, one does either criminal trials or civil trials. Not a lot of cross over. When it gets interesting is when a small town lawyer goes to the big city for a case, or a big city specialist goes out into the boonies. That's when we discover what we are made of.

 

[Ephraim Tutt]

Yep BG, specialisation is the name of the game everywhere. Most lawyers here specialise in a particular area of law. The General Practitioner is a dying breed.

 

[Harp]

They scheduled a special session just to issue this opinion. They didn't just toss it out over the transom. Is that just saying something about the importance of this particular case, or is it communicating something else entirely? Were the Supremes sending a message to both of the other branches of government? Some of us heard it...

The language of the Supremes. Arcane as it gets, and I'm not even a S Ct follower. Question is, is it so subtle, even in its most obvious, that now few even hear it?

It is not unusual for the Court to schedule a ruling announcement;
such sessions are often attended by the Justices' spouses/families;
moreover this case's landmark status for both the Constitution
and the Roberts Court is clearly warranted.
Nor is the Court's language so arcane or the boilerplate all that polished
so as to give rise to implication of dual/ulterior motive.

(...terribly difficult to extrapolate./great line..sorry, I couldn't resist. )

 

[Bourbon Guy]

Not sure we are talking about the same thing. It is not the language of the case I was referring to, and arcane is probably not ... no, it is precisely the word. Branches of govenmnent communicate with each other in language that is over 200 years old, and you will not find it by dissecting the opinion.

 

[Flyboy]

Having survived my first semester of law school (seven* more to go!), I hereby tender my application for Associate Member status. My grades keep me in good standing at school, and my Art Fawcett custom should secure my standing here.

What say ye?


* Yes, seven. Part-time, at night.

 

[Ephraim Tutt]

Having survived my first semester of law school (seven* more to go!), I hereby tender my application for Associate Member status. My grades keep me in good standing at school, and my Art Fawcett custom should secure my standing here.

What say ye?


* Yes, seven. Part-time, at night.

Well of course you understand, Flyboy, that it all depends on which School you're attending.

Only kiddin'.

As one who also attended Law School part-time while holding down a full-time job and trying to raise kids as a single dad, I can fully understand the commitment it takes.

Welcome to the Observation Bar Association - home of laid back leagle-eagles, appreciators of fine hats and finer food and wine. Pull up a bar stool and I'll order you a glass of Langhorne Creek, South Australian Shiraz. Perfect.

Tell us about you and go ahead and post a shot of that fine Art Fawcett VS. What classes do they teach in first semester law schools over there in Okie?

 

[Flyboy]

I'll have to dig up my pictures of the hat, but as to school, first semester is Contracts I, Torts, and Legal Research and Writing I. The school is Oklahoma City University.

 

[Ephraim Tutt]

Well there ya go Flyboy. Exactly the same as first semester law schools here.
Only the cases will differ. You poor American souls will remain ignorant of such gems as "Donoghue v Stevenson" or "Carlill v the Carbolic Smokeball Company" - the staple food for generations of first year law students here and the UK.

Ah the memories...

 

[Flyboy]

Actually, Carlill is a staple over here as well--in fact, not only did we cover it in Contracts I, we actually discussed it in my Business Law class in my undergrad. I'm in Property this semester, and so far, probably half of the material has either been from English law or cited to it, and we have the requisite chapter on feudalism, mesne lords, and so forth to explain the history behind fee simple and fee tail.

You want vintage? Try thirteenth-century hats!

 

[Ephraim Tutt]

It's good to see you're enlightened in Oklahoma Flyboy.

Though thankfully I managed to avoid a discussion of English feudalism in my law degree.

 

[Bourbon Guy]

Well there ya go Flyboy. Exactly the same as first semester law schools here.
Only the cases will differ. You poor American souls will remain ignorant of such gems as "Donoghue v Stevenson" or "Carlill v the Carbolic Smokeball Company" - the staple food for generations of first year law students here and the UK.

Ah the memories...

Really? Been a while, but my recollection was 5 clases: Contracts, Torts, Constitutional Law, Real Property, and Civil Procedure.

 

[Ephraim Tutt]

Well Bourbon...I was studying law part-time in the evenings, and so is Flyboy. All I can recall in that first semester is doing torts A, contracts A (each of those being 2 semester subjects) and something on legal reseach and writing. What else the full-timers did, I've no idea.

 

[Bourbon Guy]

Well Bourbon...I was studying law part-time in the evenings, and so is Flyboy. All I can recall in that first semester is doing torts A, contracts A (each of those being 2 semester subjects) and something on legal reseach and writing. What else the full-timers did, I've no idea.

Right. I forgot. Evening law school is a long slog. 5 years compared to 3.

 

[Ephraim Tutt]

Yep BG - except I was too old and grumpy to stick around for 5 years. So I did extra subjects in summer and winter school (they offer them as 1 week intensives over summer/winter vacation), took on a private reseach subject and crammed in the occasional extra one during semester. I ended up crawling out the other side of law school after 3 years and 1 semester, while also working full-time.

Then, before admission here, we have to do a post grad diploma in practical legal training (in place of articles).

 

[Flyboy]

I'll make it out in four years, but the grey hairs I have now (at twenty-nine!) will be heavily reinforced by that time.

For the record, Torts is one semester, but four hours (typical is three, or occasionally two if a two-semester course). Property is also four hours this semester, but covers both real and personal property. Constitutional will come later, along with Civ Pro and Crim Pro.

Excuse me, I seem to have sprouted a few more greys. Where'd I leave that can of Krylon....?

 

[Harp]

Not sure we are talking about the same thing. It is not the language of the case I was referring to, and arcane is probably not ... no, it is precisely the word. Branches of govenmnent communicate with each other in language that is over 200 years old...

State of the Union telepathic extrapolation?

Having served in the Justice Department I can relate to commo issues
with both the Executive and Legislative branches; though I expect the
President made himself clearly heard. Interesting to note, however, that
Justice Sotomeyor may have pushed Justice Kennedy over toward the majority.
The administration may now be checkmated at the Court.