Ask a question, get an answer

[glider]

That is an Ivy.

 

[SHatfield]

It is a tough call as a refurb may cost you close to the amount of a new hat. Worth it if you love the hat.....maybe not if you are indifferent. Perhaps keep it as is, accept you got your monies worth out of it (you have worn it out!) and treat yourself to a new one that fits. A brush, unless it is incredibly stiff coarse bristled, will not damage the felt....or at least you would have to really work at it.

I got a response from Falcon Park Hats. Parker said he'll put an upgraded better quality leather headband in it and do his best with the felt marks and charge $100 which includes return to me shipping. I think it could be worth it so that's what I'm doing. Thanks for your advice.

 

[belfastboy]

I got a response from Falcon Park Hats. Parker said he'll put an upgraded better quality leather headband in it and do his best with the felt marks and charge $100 which includes return to me shipping. I think it could be worth it so that's what I'm doing. Thanks for your advice.

I think that is a very fair price.....and worth it to save a hat you like!

 

[Rmccamey]

Add this to one of those things I thought I knew but later decided I did not know at all. Did the old homburgs (1900 -1930'ish) have more symetric, smooth pencil roll style brim curl or did they have the more asymmetric, folded D'Orsay-ish brim curl?

 

[belfastboy]

Add this to one of those things I thought I knew but later decided I did not know at all. Did the old homburgs (1900 -1930'ish) have more symetric, smooth pencil roll style brim curl or did they have the more asymmetric, folded D'Orsay-ish brim curl?

The closest I have is a 1940's Mossant homburg. It has the symmetrical bound brim not the D'Orsay curl

 

[blewnote]

Ok hat enthusiasts... here's my question: How do you tell a quality fur hat?

I'm a musician in New Orleans, bought a lame Capas lite-felt black fedora when I first moved to town and never really wore it (except on tour with the Squirrel Nut Zippers). I liked the idea of wearing hats though, and ended up with a lot of flat caps and a few straw hats of increasing niceness, the most recent being a Dobbs shantung vented centerdent fedora (purchased from Meyer the Hatter and which has been great to wear in the summertime heat).

I've been out of work for basically a year and a half because of Covid but am about to start touring again and wanted to finally get a nice hat to wear. I went back to Meyer because even though I had done a bunch of research on here and elsewhere and thought that an Akubra Stylemaster might be a reasonable thing to check out first, I think it's good to support local businesses, it's nice to try something on before you buy it, I had a $75 giftcard from the Christmas right before the world ended, and I thought the carbon grey color David Morgan stocks might be too dark and I can't wait for something to get shipped here from Australia. I went there thinking that I would maybe buy either a Stetson Chatham or Temple in Caribou (the Whippet they stock is the low quality wool felt variety), and even though I know people here poo poo Stetson's rabbit fur quality as of late, it is an iconic American brand and Meyer is a trustworthy business so I figured if they sold it they must not think they're awful.

To my surprise the hat the sales associate first had me try on was the one I liked the most, a Selentino Sterling in steel grey. It's a centerdent, like the shantung I own, and a similar brim width and shape so I think it was familiar. The proportions on the Chatham looked off to me, and the crown on the Temple that the SA pulled out of storage upstairs seemed like it was tilting a little to one side. The sales associate told me that the rabbit fur hats at that price level are basically all the same quality and that the Stetsons were no better or worse and to pick whichever I liked. I bought the hat, and went home. I was curious to learn more about the hat though because it was not on my radar for what I was thinking of buying so I went home and looked it up, but perhaps I should not have opened that can of worms.

This is my first fur felt purchase so although I am comfortable wearing a fedora I don't really know what the fur felt hat should feel like. The Selentino (which is panned pretty hard by at least one user on here who reports buying them for $25 a pop out of the back of some dude's truck) seems like a nice hat? I gather Selentino is just a re-branding but the hat is made by the respected hatter Tonak in Czechoslovakia. The crown is malleable and the brim stays put when you snap it up or down. The felt seems solid, but is not bulky and is softer in the crown than the brim. It feels firm, but soft to the hand.

However, it was rather more expensive than the Akubra (and even slightly more expensive than the Stetsons oddly enough), and even with some felt to keep it from sitting too low on my head, the crown is touching or almost touching the back of my head... and also my wife thought something about it looked off when I tried it on for her before I had fully dialed in the proper fit with some felt.

So I went ahead and ordered the Stylemaster from David Morgan and got it today. It's definitely dark, but not that much darker than the one I purchased. It is surprisingly tighter than the 59s from Selentino or Dobbs, almost fitting perfectly out of the box. The brim is slightly stiffer, but the rest of the hat is so firm that it feels almost like paperboard as opposed to felt. It looks good on me, and the teardrop is high enough that it doesn't touch the back of my head at all.

Now, I read time and time again that when you handled a good hat you "just knew" because it felt better in the brim and the body. But leaving aside the crown touching my head (which I think might be an easy fix with a slight rebashing), I would say that the "poor" quality Selentino feels like a better hat than the "good" quality Akubra which feels a bit like it's made out of paperboard. Based on this I would lean towards keeping the Selentino, but I do like a bargain and I've also read time and time again that these Akubras take a beating and keep on keeping on, which seems important for a hat that will be braving the rigors of the road. Our tour takes us through Eugene on this first leg, so I think I'll stop in at Northwest hats and custom order something, but I do need something for now as well.

So all that to say, how does one tell a decent quality fur felt hat? It's what has held me back from buying one until now, and is still perplexing me. Thanks in advance for any help y'all can give!

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Ok hat enthusiasts... here's my question: How do you tell a quality fur hat?

I'm a musician in New Orleans, bought a lame Capas lite-felt black fedora when I first moved to town and never really wore it (except on tour with the Squirrel Nut Zippers). I liked the idea of wearing hats though, and ended up with a lot of flat caps and a few straw hats of increasing niceness, the most recent being a Dobbs shantung vented centerdent fedora (purchased from Meyer the Hatter and which has been great to wear in the summertime heat).

I've been out of work for basically a year and a half because of Covid but am about to start touring again and wanted to finally get a nice hat to wear. I went back to Meyer because even though I had done a bunch of research on here and elsewhere and thought that an Akubra Stylemaster might be a reasonable thing to check out first, I think it's good to support local businesses, it's nice to try something on before you buy it, I had a $75 giftcard from the Christmas right before the world ended, and I thought the carbon grey color David Morgan stocks might be too dark and I can't wait for something to get shipped here from Australia. I went there thinking that I would maybe buy either a Stetson Chatham or Temple in Caribou (the Whippet they stock is the low quality wool felt variety), and even though I know people here poo poo Stetson's rabbit fur quality as of late, it is an iconic American brand and Meyer is a trustworthy business so I figured if they sold it they must not think they're awful.

To my surprise the hat the sales associate first had me try on was the one I liked the most, a Selentino Sterling in steel grey. It's a centerdent, like the shantung I own, and a similar brim width and shape so I think it was familiar. The proportions on the Chatham looked off to me, and the crown on the Temple that the SA pulled out of storage upstairs seemed like it was tilting a little to one side. The sales associate told me that the rabbit fur hats at that price level are basically all the same quality and that the Stetsons were no better or worse and to pick whichever I liked. I bought the hat, and went home. I was curious to learn more about the hat though because it was not on my radar for what I was thinking of buying so I went home and looked it up, but perhaps I should not have opened that can of worms.

This is my first fur felt purchase so although I am comfortable wearing a fedora I don't really know what the fur felt hat should feel like. The Selentino (which is panned pretty hard by at least one user on here who reports buying them for $25 a pop out of the back of some dude's truck) seems like a nice hat? I gather Selentino is just a re-branding but the hat is made by the respected hatter Tonak in Czechoslovakia. The crown is malleable and the brim stays put when you snap it up or down. The felt seems solid, but is not bulky and is softer in the crown than the brim. It feels firm, but soft to the hand.

However, it was rather more expensive than the Akubra (and even slightly more expensive than the Stetsons oddly enough), and even with some felt to keep it from sitting too low on my head, the crown is touching or almost touching the back of my head... and also my wife thought something about it looked off when I tried it on for her before I had fully dialed in the proper fit with some felt.

So I went ahead and ordered the Stylemaster from David Morgan and got it today. It's definitely dark, but not that much darker than the one I purchased. It is surprisingly tighter than the 59s from Selentino or Dobbs, almost fitting perfectly out of the box. The brim is slightly stiffer, but the rest of the hat is so firm that it feels almost like paperboard as opposed to felt. It looks good on me, and the teardrop is high enough that it doesn't touch the back of my head at all.

Now, I read time and time again that when you handled a good hat you "just knew" because it felt better in the brim and the body. But leaving aside the crown touching my head (which I think might be an easy fix with a slight rebashing), I would say that the "poor" quality Selentino feels like a better hat than the "good" quality Akubra which feels a bit like it's made out of paperboard. Based on this I would lean towards keeping the Selentino, but I do like a bargain and I've also read time and time again that these Akubras take a beating and keep on keeping on, which seems important for a hat that will be braving the rigors of the road. Our tour takes us through Eugene on this first leg, so I think I'll stop in at Northwest hats and custom order something, but I do need something for now as well.

So all that to say, how does one tell a decent quality fur felt hat? It's what has held me back from buying one until now, and is still perplexing me. Thanks in advance for any help y'all can give!

A lot of us will tell you that none of the hats in question are great hats. Akubra makes a good hat for the price and they can take a lot of wear without looking shabby, but it’s not great felt. It’s sturdy and decent, but not great. Akubras also have a lot of variation where the felt can be very different from one hat to the next even when the color and model are the same.

Selentino Sterling hats are the lowest grade of Selentino. I agree that the felt isn’t bad and if you like the shape and fit then there’s nothing wrong with it. I prefer that felt over the Stetsons you mentioned as far as dress hats go. What I don’t personally like with the Sterling are the proportions, but that’s a personal thing. To my way of thinking, you need to either go custom or vintage to get felt that you immediately know is something special. All the hats you’ve mentioned are compromise hats. It’s not reasonable to expect them to be the equivalent to hats costing three times as much or more.

Several of us here bought Selentino Sterlings when The Burlington Coat Factory closed them out and sold them VERY cheap. There were also caches that popped up at stupid low prices. Those deals are long gone.

To come full circle, you either commission a custom hat with the expense and wait or you find a vintage hat on the used market. Otherwise you understand that you are making compromises and you won’t get the kind of felt that you “just knew” was high quality. I guess another option is to try one of the “Pure” hats from Stetson…maybe the Stratoliner? The felt might be what you’re looking for, but the build quality is still not great.

We all wish there was an option where you get outstanding felt, solid build quality, and a classic shape from an off-the-rack hat at affordable prices, but we’re living seventy years too late for that. Don’t get me wrong, some of those modern “compromise hats” are very serviceable and wearable, but you won’t mistake them for better custom or vintage hats.

 

[belfastboy]

A lot of us will tell you that none of the hats in question are great hats. Akubra makes a good hat for the price and they can take a lot of wear without looking shabby, but it’s not great felt. It’s sturdy and decent, but not great. Akubras also have a lot of variation where the felt can be very different from one hat to the next even when the color and model are the same.

Selentino Sterling hats are the lowest grade of Selentino. I agree that the felt isn’t bad and if you like the shape and fit then there’s nothing wrong with it. I prefer that felt over the Stetsons you mentioned as far as dress hats go. What I don’t personally like with the Sterling are the proportions, but that’s a personal thing. To my way of thinking, you need to either go custom or vintage to get felt that you immediately know is something special. All the hats you’ve mentioned are compromise hats. It’s not reasonable to expect them to be the equivalent to hats costing three times as much or more.

Several of us here bought Selentino Sterlings when The Burlington Coat Factory closed them out and sold them VERY cheap. There were also caches that popped up at stupid low prices. Those deals are long gone.

To come full circle, you either commission a custom hat with the expense and wait or you find a vintage hat on the used market. Otherwise you understand that you are making compromises and you won’t get the kind of felt that you “just knew” was high quality. I guess another option is to try one of the “Pure” hats from Stetson…maybe the Stratoliner? The felt might be what you’re looking for, but the build quality is still not great.

We all wish there was an option where you get outstanding felt, solid build quality, and a classic shape from an off-the-rack hat at affordable prices, but we’re living seventy years too late for that. Don’t get me wrong, some of those modern “compromise hats” are very serviceable and wearable, but you won’t mistake them for better custom or vintage hats.

Ok hat enthusiasts... here's my question: How do you tell a quality fur hat?

I'm a musician in New Orleans, bought a lame Capas lite-felt black fedora when I first moved to town and never really wore it (except on tour with the Squirrel Nut Zippers). I liked the idea of wearing hats though, and ended up with a lot of flat caps and a few straw hats of increasing niceness, the most recent being a Dobbs shantung vented centerdent fedora (purchased from Meyer the Hatter and which has been great to wear in the summertime heat).

I've been out of work for basically a year and a half because of Covid but am about to start touring again and wanted to finally get a nice hat to wear. I went back to Meyer because even though I had done a bunch of research on here and elsewhere and thought that an Akubra Stylemaster might be a reasonable thing to check out first, I think it's good to support local businesses, it's nice to try something on before you buy it, I had a $75 giftcard from the Christmas right before the world ended, and I thought the carbon grey color David Morgan stocks might be too dark and I can't wait for something to get shipped here from Australia. I went there thinking that I would maybe buy either a Stetson Chatham or Temple in Caribou (the Whippet they stock is the low quality wool felt variety), and even though I know people here poo poo Stetson's rabbit fur quality as of late, it is an iconic American brand and Meyer is a trustworthy business so I figured if they sold it they must not think they're awful.

To my surprise the hat the sales associate first had me try on was the one I liked the most, a Selentino Sterling in steel grey. It's a centerdent, like the shantung I own, and a similar brim width and shape so I think it was familiar. The proportions on the Chatham looked off to me, and the crown on the Temple that the SA pulled out of storage upstairs seemed like it was tilting a little to one side. The sales associate told me that the rabbit fur hats at that price level are basically all the same quality and that the Stetsons were no better or worse and to pick whichever I liked. I bought the hat, and went home. I was curious to learn more about the hat though because it was not on my radar for what I was thinking of buying so I went home and looked it up, but perhaps I should not have opened that can of worms.

This is my first fur felt purchase so although I am comfortable wearing a fedora I don't really know what the fur felt hat should feel like. The Selentino (which is panned pretty hard by at least one user on here who reports buying them for $25 a pop out of the back of some dude's truck) seems like a nice hat? I gather Selentino is just a re-branding but the hat is made by the respected hatter Tonak in Czechoslovakia. The crown is malleable and the brim stays put when you snap it up or down. The felt seems solid, but is not bulky and is softer in the crown than the brim. It feels firm, but soft to the hand.

However, it was rather more expensive than the Akubra (and even slightly more expensive than the Stetsons oddly enough), and even with some felt to keep it from sitting too low on my head, the crown is touching or almost touching the back of my head... and also my wife thought something about it looked off when I tried it on for her before I had fully dialed in the proper fit with some felt.

So I went ahead and ordered the Stylemaster from David Morgan and got it today. It's definitely dark, but not that much darker than the one I purchased. It is surprisingly tighter than the 59s from Selentino or Dobbs, almost fitting perfectly out of the box. The brim is slightly stiffer, but the rest of the hat is so firm that it feels almost like paperboard as opposed to felt. It looks good on me, and the teardrop is high enough that it doesn't touch the back of my head at all.

Now, I read time and time again that when you handled a good hat you "just knew" because it felt better in the brim and the body. But leaving aside the crown touching my head (which I think might be an easy fix with a slight rebashing), I would say that the "poor" quality Selentino feels like a better hat than the "good" quality Akubra which feels a bit like it's made out of paperboard. Based on this I would lean towards keeping the Selentino, but I do like a bargain and I've also read time and time again that these Akubras take a beating and keep on keeping on, which seems important for a hat that will be braving the rigors of the road. Our tour takes us through Eugene on this first leg, so I think I'll stop in at Northwest hats and custom order something, but I do need something for now as well.

So all that to say, how does one tell a decent quality fur felt hat? It's what has held me back from buying one until now, and is still perplexing me. Thanks in advance for any help y'all can give!

Now that you have done some leg work; trying on different hats, purchasing a few you have an idea of what works for you. Next purchase have a look at some custom hat makers. Many custom hatters will make you a rabbit felt hat at a price not that much higher than an off the shelf Stetson. And from a custom maker you get a good quality felt, proportions of your choosing, good quality grosgrain ribbon all put together with great skill and care.

 

[jlee562]

Not to get too high minded about it, but in some respects, good is relative to your hat needs. Akubra primarily makes working hats for the outback, they just also make dress felt hats. So good hat if you plan on wearing it in a lot of rain. Not a good hat if you want a high end hat (to be clear Akubras *are* good hats, but you will find factory hats with nicer components and finishing). To echo Brent, if you like it on your head, it's a good hat.

Since most of us here are vintage hat enthusiasts, in a very general sense, what "good felt" constitutes is more akin to those old open crown hats that were meant to be shaped by the wearer. With modern factory hats it's a little bit different since almost all hats come pre-creased now. The hat still should respond to steam though if you are making adjustments. You should also be sure the color is nice and even throughout. The felt should be nicely finished with no rough spots or divots. Avoid hats with s-m-l-xl sizing. Glued in liners are not great, sometimes this is unavoidable in modern hats. Stiffness or lack thereof is not necessarily an indicator of felt quality.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Reminds me of an recurring disagreement I’ve had on the quality of Winchester’s modern western felt. The working cowboy loves it and has declared it to be close to perfect for his uses. I’m very critical of it as it’s too stiff/firm and nothing like the vintage felt I prefer. The very traits that make it ideal for the cowboy make it feel cheap and harsh for me. It’s not a matter of one being right and the other wrong: it’s about matching the felt or the hat to your application and preferences.

I don’t care for the Selentino Sterling. It’s not a bad hat, but the components are not to my liking and the blocking isn’t what I like either. For me, the Akubra is a clear winner over the Selentino.

 

[glider]

I think that there is a little snobbery at work here. There are a lot of hat experts on this forum, guys that really know there hats but 90 percent of the people that you come into contact with can't tell the difference in a 200 dollar hat and a 600 dollar hat. I'm not a tightwad but value is important to me. I hate to feel like I've paid way more than I need to for anything. Personally, I'm completely happy with a nice Akubra or Stetson or any number of other brands. I don't want wool felt, actually fur felt is about all I will consider and I've had good luck finding beaver on the used market. The quality of the build is right in front of you to see in a hat shop. If a hat is fur felt it will say so, at least on new hats it will. Some of the vintage hats don't say what the felt is but it is assumed that they are fur. Bottom line, if you like the hat and are satisfied with the quality then buy it and be proud to wear it. You don't need anyone to approve your purchase !!

 

[Bill Hughes]

I think that there is a little snobbery at work here. There are a lot of hat experts on this forum, guys that really know there hats but 90 percent of the people that you come into contact with can't tell the difference in a 200 dollar hat and a 600 dollar hat. I'm not a tightwad but value is important to me. I hate to feel like I've paid way more than I need to for anything. Personally, I'm completely happy with a nice Akubra or Stetson or any number of other brands. I don't want wool felt, actually fur felt is about all I will consider and I've had good luck finding beaver on the used market. The quality of the build is right in front of you to see in a hat shop. If a hat is fur felt it will say so, at least on new hats it will. Some of the vintage hats don't say what the felt is but it is assumed that they are fur. Bottom line, if you like the hat and are satisfied with the quality then buy it and be proud to wear it. You don't need anyone to approve your purchase !!

I don’t see any snobbery at all. The question was “How do you tell a quality fur hat?” How can that be answered without stating personal preferences? Is it snobbery that you won’t consider wool? No, it’s personal preference. So part of your answer is in effect wool is not quality. I would never call that snobbery!

 

[glider]

That comment was a little tongue in cheek, thought I would get a rise. Actually I do stand by the comment and you are right about my preference for fur felt. There certainly are wool felt hats that are fine hats, most bowlers are wool. I suppose wool is like fur in that there can be a very wide standard. I think the jest of the post is about right though.

 

[Frunobulax]

That comment was a little tongue in cheek, thought I would get a rise. Actually I do stand by the comment and you are right about my preference for fur felt. There certainly are wool felt hats that are fine hats, most bowlers are wool. I suppose wool is like fur in that there can be a very wide standard. I think the jest of the post is about right though.

That's how I took it. I've often referred to myself as a "beer snob." I think I'm a "hat snob," too.

 

[carouselvic]

I know I'm a hat snob. I try to be mindful of this affliction. I would never dog a man about his hat, it's such a personal thing. Being a long time hat wearer as well as a collector it makes it possible for me to have and wear many fine hats. Not everyone shares my passion or has my ability to blow money on my interest. When someone asks for my opinion on their hat, I give it. I don't sugar coat it but I am very direct.

 

[blewnote]

Thanks all for the answers!

I thought about trying to respond to each individual but felt like I might end up repeating myself.

I tried to make this clear in my rather lengthy exposition, but perhaps was too muddled in my writing: I am totally aware that neither of these hats are top end. As I mentioned, I am excited to try the custom route, but since I have an immediate need, I need to make do with a compromise hat for the time being. A vintage hat would be an exciting find, but without having much experience with a fur felt hat at all it seems hard to judge the value/quality of something 50-90 years old that you can't see before buying. As you all have said, high quality hats at reasonable prices is sort of a thing of the past, but I can't help but feel that at around $200 you should be able to get something that is serviceable. To me that means something that looks good, feels good, and won't fall apart in a few years or after being exposed to the elements.

I don't think it's snobbery to say that there is a hierarchy of hat manufacture, in that you should generally stay away from sizes that are listed as S/M/L etc, wool is at the bottom, then wool felt, then fur felt, with rabbit being generally the lower level fur hat and beaver being better (and some other interesting furs thrown in occasionally such as nutria and the like). Custom is better than RTW, and there are differing levels for both.

But I feel like as someone reading a bunch of threads and stickies on this forum there doesn't seem to be much information in the way of what makes something quality vs not, beyond saying you just don't like a hat or hat manufacturer and bemoaning the fact that current production hats aren't up to snuff of vintage hats. It seems reasonable to me that if people are scared off of buying current production hats at a more entry/mid level than the more reputable hat makers will have no reason to offer them anymore and you'll either have the cheapo Chinese products or high end bespoke.

I think my fear over the Selentino is that it is not as widely sold as Stetson and there's very little information about the brand, and then when I read a bunch of negative things about them from Deadlyhandsome it made me worried that I had chosen poorly and that perhaps it was a poor value or would fall apart. And Akubra was mentioned time and time again as a best bang for your buck starter hat, so I figured I should check that out as well.

I guess I'm back to where I was when I started, which is to do what Glider and Jared suggested and just keep the one I like and enjoy it, and then pick up a custom hat or 3 as I need.

 

[blewnote]

Reminds me of an recurring disagreement I’ve had on the quality of Winchester’s modern western felt. The working cowboy loves it and has declared it to be close to perfect for his uses. I’m very critical of it as it’s too stiff/firm and nothing like the vintage felt I prefer. The very traits that make it ideal for the cowboy make it feel cheap and harsh for me. It’s not a matter of one being right and the other wrong: it’s about matching the felt or the hat to your application and preferences.

I don’t care for the Selentino Sterling. It’s not a bad hat, but the components are not to my liking and the blocking isn’t what I like either. For me, the Akubra is a clear winner over the Selentino.

See this is what is so confusing for a newb. You say that you like vintage felt because it is not too stiff, but think the Akubra (which has very stiff felt) is a clear winner over the Selentino (which has a softer feeling felt).

What about the components of the Selentino do you dislike? Can you reblock a hat? Is that similar to rebashing a hat, which it seems you can do even for ones with a factory bash? If you can reblock/rebash a hat what does it really matter what the shape was when you bought it? If it's really just a matter of shape, then it's not that the Selentino is a bad hat it's just that you don't like the shape/proportions?

 

[blewnote]

I think that there is a little snobbery at work here. There are a lot of hat experts on this forum, guys that really know there hats but 90 percent of the people that you come into contact with can't tell the difference in a 200 dollar hat and a 600 dollar hat. I'm not a tightwad but value is important to me. I hate to feel like I've paid way more than I need to for anything. Personally, I'm completely happy with a nice Akubra or Stetson or any number of other brands. I don't want wool felt, actually fur felt is about all I will consider and I've had good luck finding beaver on the used market. The quality of the build is right in front of you to see in a hat shop. If a hat is fur felt it will say so, at least on new hats it will. Some of the vintage hats don't say what the felt is but it is assumed that they are fur. Bottom line, if you like the hat and are satisfied with the quality then buy it and be proud to wear it. You don't need anyone to approve your purchase !!

Thanks man, I don't need approval. I just don't want to be taken advantage of by an unscrupulous salesperson (which I would hope is not the case here!), and drop a couple hundred on something that will wilt like a dead flower after getting wet, or fall apart in a few years. I guess I shouldn't worry too much though since I beat up on the Capas lite-felt pretty hard and it's still in basically the same shape it was when I got it.

 

[GuessWho...]

I have had to face some harsh realities and accept that...size does matter. With a new appreciation for vintage hats, I bid on and won a couple of ebay auctions and find myself with hats that are not comfortable to wear. I did order a cheap hat stretcher, and have done some reading about the process. Correct me if I am wrong about these next statements, as I do not to have false beliefs...The leather sweatband is what I need to be MOST careful with when stretching a hat as it is more fragile. Over time leather dries out and shrinks naturally but mink oil CAN help make it more pliable and softer but does NOT help when stretching...or does it help some but not enough to matter....I question my reasoning here. A hat with a tight fit is chosen to be worn LESS often than compared to one too large...if ever at all...might be more a personal preference. Do you often/sometimes/never choose to wear one of your hats with a tight fit over the more comfortable? Why?

 

[Frunobulax]

I think my fear over the Selentino is that it is not as widely sold as Stetson and there's very little information about the brand, and then when I read a bunch of negative things about them from Deadlyhandsome it made me worried that I had chosen poorly and that perhaps it was a poor value or would fall apart. And Akubra was mentioned time and time again as a best bang for your buck starter hat, so I figured I should check that out as well.

A Selentino Sterling was my first fur felt hat purchase - I bought it new at Batsakes in Cincinnati. I think it's a pretty nice hat, though my tastes in dimensions and style have changed and I don't really wear it any more. I think I paid $165.00 for it several years ago. I still have it.

As far as "what is quality?" You're talking with folks who have had probably a few hundred hats pass through their hands and have a different perspective - sometimes it's hard to communicate our ideas in such cases.

When people here talk of "quality felt," they're referring to the consistency, density, and finish of a hat. Highly prized in dress hats are the dense, easily moldable vintage felts. You can find an approximation of this in customs, but even my customs can be outshone by what were "average" quality hats pre-1960, so a new Stetson, Akubra, etc. will rarely live up to that expectation.

Build quality is exactly what is sounds like. Are the components and workmanship of quality? Many modern production hats get knocked for this, namely Stetson.

Finish ("hand") is another important quality. In the past, hats would be finished variously, including suede finishes, peluche, and many others. Such was the advantage of having a more diverse market to service. Such things are rare these days. A smooth hand is desirable, even in a western or outback hat.

So until you get your feet wet with a few vintages, it may escape you what we are referring to. As far as modern, off-the-rack hats, Stetson has some nice things out there, but I wouldn't buy anything lower than Royal Deluxe quality. I have a few Royal Deluxe, and one Excellent modern Stetsons and I like them quite well. Akubra is recognized as a good, durable, and attractive hat that is affordable, and I agree. Mayser still makes a decent hat, and though Borsalino quality has declined a bit, they do as well.

Hope that helps a bit.

Who are you touring with?