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[deadlyhandsome]

I've often pondered this myself when someone praises the quality of the felt on their vintage hat(s). Unfortunately, I don't think anyone here was alive in the 1930s or 40s who could tell us definitively whether or not those hats were actually better when they were brand new, or if they were pretty much the same then as modern production hats are now and that time has given them those desirable qualities.

I'm not sure I completely buy into this. I think that the decline in hat wearing, the stiff nature of western hats not requiring fine felt, the willingness to the make short-term trade of decreased quality for increased profits, the mass production nature of most all things, the disposable nature of our possessions, and a dozen other factors played into it. I also suspect that beaver fur that would not have made the cut 80 years ago is finding its way into felt hats today.

On top of that, when you adjust for inflation we are buying very cheap hats. If there was a strong market for $500 to $1000 fedoras today do you think we could get back to where we were?

Maybe the beaver pelts of today are not as high quality as decades ago, but if there was a strong enough market we could overcome that. I'd love to see nutria be utilized more. I don't care what animal it comes from as long as the felt quality is there.

 

[Zombie_61]

I'm not sure I completely buy into this. I think that the decline in hat wearing, the stiff nature of western hats not requiring fine felt, the willingness to the make short-term trade of decreased quality for increased profits, the mass production nature of most all things, the disposable nature of our possessions, and a dozen other factors played into it. I also suspect that beaver fur that would not have made the cut 80 years ago is finding its way into felt hats today.

On top of that, when you adjust for inflation we are buying very cheap hats. If there was a strong market for $500 to $1000 fedoras today do you think we could get back to where we were?

Maybe the beaver pelts of today are not as high quality as decades ago, but if there was a strong enough market we could overcome that. I'd love to see nutria be utilized more. I don't care what animal it comes from as long as the felt quality is there.

I can't argue against any of this. Like a great many manufactured products, quality can be (and usually is) directly affected by a loss of demand as manufacturers search for more "cost effective" (read "less expensive") ways to produce the same product and still make a profit even though sales have decreased. I suppose the question then becomes, "Will a modern production hat fare as well over the next 70-80 years as their 1930s-40s-era counterparts have?" It's nice to think there will still be some demand for fur felt hats in 2098, but as time passes and trends change I'd bet it's just as likely our favorite headwear will wind up occupying space in a landfill somewhere.

 

[bendingoak]

I know John uses FEPSA stuff too. IIRC, what he said back on Club Obi Wan (so this is going back a bit) was that his rabbit felt was better than Akubra's, and that it was a blend that was made for him exclusively. I don't know for certain, but in my head I remember this as being before John made any public comments about using FEPSA felts, so I'm pretty sure he was talking about Winchester.

Never assume

 

[bendingoak]

Penman is probably the maker of the finest Indy hat one can buy, as well as more affordable versions.

I'm a sucker for provenance though, and the relaunched Herbert Johnsons, with what is as best we know, the original blocks, look mighty nice. Not the cheapest, but, they do indeed fit the part.

As far as the Jaxon....if you're looking for a costume hat that you're not going to use with any regularity, sure, that works. If you think you'd wear a hat out and about, I'd highly recommend dropping a bit more on a proper hat (i.e. fur felt, and actual sizing). I actually like the Christy's Adventurer for the value category, something about their "sable" felt and crown feels right. Just don't wear it in the rain. If you are a size 7, drop me a line, you can take my old one off my hands.

Other options: Penman everyman, Akubra Federation VI, Stetson Fortune and Glory.

The Akubra always wins bang for buck, check out hatsdirect.com.

Not the original hat blocks. The block was recast Steve Delks Raiders block.

 

[redlinerobert]

I'm looking to have a hat made, similar to this. I find them for sale on occasion but the size is never right, so rather than spend $X,xxx for a hat that won't fit I figure why not have one made for probably less? I'm looking for something similar to this. I imagine I'd have to have it made then sent to Mexico to have it adorned.

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Zoukatron]

I assume the sombrero that Akubra do is not the shape you're looking for? It is somewhat different, but would make for an easy solution.

 

[Mustang Mike's Hats]

Best I know is D Bar J . Dave Johnson does a great job with these. He makes them for the Cowboy Action Shooter crowd and has been doing them for years. Ask for David and tell him Mustang Mike sent you and, with any luck, he won't charge you double!!

 

[redlinerobert]

Best I know is D Bar J . Dave Johnson does a great job with these. He makes them for the Cowboy Action Shooter crowd and has been doing them for years. Ask for David and tell him Mustang Mike sent you and, with any luck, he won't charge you double!!

Thanks! I'll call them and see what they can do. I like this style, would like it more if it was a little darker!

 

[gtdean48]

Where can I get a new felt hat that has the dense clay-like felt that some of my vintage hats have? I like my hats from Gannon, Northwest, VS, etc., but I have yet to find a new hat that is the equal of those vintage hats. Are the hat bodies available today just not capable of that kind of felt? I like the current beaver felt hats, but I'd also like to have some that could approximate those vintage hats. Is there an answer?

Vintage hats feel that way because the felt is "dead" = it has finished felting. New hats are still "felting" = fibers are still getting tighter & tighter. If you could find a vintage blank that was "dead felt", then you could get a new hat that feels like what you seek. A while back, somebody had a few vintage blanks if I recall correctly. You'll need decades for "hat bodies available today" to achieve that state. IMHO

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Vintage hats feel that way because the felt is "dead" = it has finished felting. New hats are still "felting" = fibers are still getting tighter & tighter. If you could find a vintage blank that was "dead felt", then you could get a new hat that feels like what you seek. A while back, somebody had a few vintage blanks if I recall correctly. You'll need decades for "hat bodies available today" to achieve that state. IMHO

I’m not sure how this answers all the questions. Not all vintage hats have the qualities I desire. I also don’t think that those dense felts started off being spongey. I can believe that the hats’ characteristics change some over the years but silk purses and sows ears comes to mind.

Your hypothesis also doesn’t explain how the current manufacturered Stetson New York (Excellent grade) has most of the desired properties using new felt bodies.

No, I think the gentleman in 1938 who spent $20 on a beaver felt hat received a hat that was very much like the vintage hats we search for today.

 

[scottyrocks]

Mercury was a component used long ago in felting hat blanks. The practice was stopped because Hg is poisonous. The term 'mad hatter' wasn't out of nowhere.

It has been said that Hg was one of the reasons why hats from the era feel the way they do, and more modern hats do not.

 

[Bill Hughes]

Mercury was a component used long ago in felting hat blanks. The practice was stopped because Hg is poisonous. The term 'mad hatter' wasn't out of nowhere.

It has been said that Hg was one of the reasons why hats from the era feel the way they do, and more modern hats do not.

I don't know when the felt manufacturers stopped using mercury in the process. But I think it was outlawed in 1941.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Mercury was a component used long ago in felting hat blanks. The practice was stopped because Hg is poisonous. The term 'mad hatter' wasn't out of nowhere.

It has been said that Hg was one of the reasons why hats from the era feel the way they do, and more modern hats do not.

I’ve thought of this; however, I’ve read that the entire hat industry stopped using mercury in the 1940s and hats made after that still have the qualities I’m talking about. The dates that were quoted have mercury in decline and even banned in some states in 1934 and the entire industry stopped using it by 1943. I know that I have hats from the mid 1950s that have that dense clay-like felt. I don’t think that mercury is the complete answer.

 

[moontheloon]

Vintage hats feel that way because the felt is "dead" = it has finished felting. New hats are still "felting" = fibers are still getting tighter & tighter. If you could find a vintage blank that was "dead felt", then you could get a new hat that feels like what you seek. A while back, somebody had a few vintage blanks if I recall correctly. You'll need decades for "hat bodies available today" to achieve that state. IMHO

I don’t think this is the case at all
The felt on these old hats was like this off the shelf
You can clearly see it in photographs and in motion picture they way it took a crease and a pinch ... modern felt does not rumple and respond to pressure that way ... hell a good portion of it won’t even keep a crease without steam.
I believe they are just not detailing the process the way they once did because the damand for a quality hat is pretty much non existent

 

[deadlyhandsome]

The process must be difficult or require expensive equipment or you would think a cottage industry would have emerged to meet the demand.

I understand that the market is tiny compared to the zenith of hat wearing, but surely you could sell a few thousand of such hat bodies per year. Artisanal small batch manufacturing is having a bit of a renaissance. I wonder what it would take to make the felt so many or us want?

 

[glider]

Can the felt you're talking about be scientifically measured, defined so to speak ? Not being a smart ass, I really am curious. The only thing I've understood so far is that some felt from very old hats feels much better than others to you. Not all of my hats feel the same either but I don't own any hats like you are talking about.

 

[moontheloon]

Can the felt you're talking about be scientifically measured, defined so to speak ? Not being a smart ass, I really am curious. The only thing I've understood so far is that some felt from very old hats feels much better than others to you. Not all of my hats feel the same either but I don't own any hats like you are talking about.

This is the type of felt he is talking about

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[gtdean48]

I’m not sure how this answers all the questions. Not all vintage hats have the qualities I desire. I also don’t think that those dense felts started off being spongey. I can believe that the hats’ characteristics change some over the years but silk purses and sows ears comes to mind.

Your hypothesis also doesn’t explain how the current manufacturered Stetson New York (Excellent grade) has most of the desired properties using new felt bodies.

No, I think the gentleman in 1938 who spent $20 on a beaver felt hat received a hat that was very much like the vintage hats we search for today.

Wasn't trying to answer all the questions, just the fact that dead felt has that clay like hand to it you are seeking. We can't time travel to see what it felt like off the shelf. Also remember that Stetson used to "age" blanks for a year before putting them into finishing process to make hats. Nowadays, that can't be done to have that much $$$ sitting stagnant in the production process. I'm sure food sources & habitat have changed the beaver fur fibers some, same for rabbit & wild hare. Lots of factors equate to "they don't make 'em like they used to"....

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Wasn't trying to answer all the questions, just the fact that dead felt has that clay like hand to it you are seeking. We can't time travel to see what it felt like off the shelf. Also remember that Stetson used to "age" blanks for a year before putting them into finishing process to make hats. Nowadays, that can't be done to have that much $$$ sitting stagnant in the production process. I'm sure food sources & habitat have changed the beaver fur fibers some, same for rabbit & wild hare. Lots of factors equate to "they don't make 'em like they used to"....

My “answer all the questions” remark was my soft way of saying that your answer about “dead” felt doesn’t match the facts. To think that a finely pounced beaver felt made today could somehow change into the type of felt that I was referring to with the passing of time makes no sense. I wish that it was possible, but it doesn’t fit with the facts. And again, Stetson has shown that they can still produce this clay-like felt as they have with the beaver felt New York.

If aging for a year was all it took I’m certain Winchester would offer aged bodies and get the huge premium they would demand.

I do not know the answer either.

 

[gtdean48]

Wouldn't be so certain as Winchester only produces a fraction of their blanks for custom hatters who would have to take on the aging period, not Winchester. Their main focus is Stratton Hats & they're not going to take up the space or the funding for aging bodies. I've seen a pure silver belly blank done by Winchester for a custom hatter (Western unfortunately) that was amazing but still didn't reach the clay-like characteristics of a vintage 7X Clear Beaver.