Are We Not Male?

[MK]

"ARE WE NOT MEN?"

The famous line from The Island of Dr. Morreau. A crazy movie about a mad doctor who lives on a remote island doing experiments on animals to make then human.

The results of his work are neither human not animal....just some whacked, freakish mutants who endeavor to fight their natural insticts and strive to be human.....to be men.

The famous line is spoken by the leader of these creatures, called the law giver. He exclaimes the line, "ARE WE NOT MEN?", to encourage and challange the others to have integrity and do the right thing.

Would it be as powerful a phrase if it were Are We Not MALE?

I have noticed over the past five or so years that there has been a shift of referring to men as "male".....especially women. After having noticed this for a time, I found myself feeling a little slighted....and perhaps a bit irritated at this trend.

Male is a broader less exacting term to refer to us. Yes, we are male....but so are dogs, pigs, spiders, and probably even some slugs are male....not that I would be able to tell the difference...of even care to.

Strangely enough the women who I hear refer to us as male don't usually use the term female to refer to other women. They just call them....well...women...or girls.

I am not sure what is the reason or motivation for this trend, but I have a hunch that it has been driven by "N.O.W." types in an effort to refer to men in the least masculine term they can.

Other than a police report, I can not remember a single instance of a man calling to himself of other men as "male."

I don't appreciate this movement to emasculate my gender.

You can be be born male, but you have to strive to be a man....or at least a real man. You guys know what I am talking about. When we were little boys, men talked to us about being a man. It was something earned.....or better yet.....it is a process....or even better yet a journey. There we go. It is a journey.....much like love. I love my wife. It is not something I get a certificate that says I love my wife and sticked it on the wall and say it is done. It is a day to day process loving my wife. I have to keep loving her. In the same way I have to keep being a man. Not to do so is to be less than a man.

I am proud to be a man.

Anyway....that is my long winded thought for the day.

More wine for my males!......I mean men!

 

[Nathan Flowers]

I agree with you on all points. However, I don't consider myself a fully fledged Man yet, because in my opinion a person isn't dry behind the ears till they're at least 30 years old. So for 6 more years, I'll be a young man.

 

[Imahomer]

Well, we all mature at our own rate. Some are forced to grow up early and loose their childhood at an early age. While others are so protected and/or sheltered from the real world that they never grow up and become men.

 

[Sergei]

Interesting....

You maybe onto something here. But I haven't noticed the usage to much myself.

But the "official usage of Male" is as follows from:
The American Heritage?Ç¬Æ Book of English Usage.
A Practical and Authoritative Guide to Contemporary English. 1996.

female / male

Contrary to popular opinion, the word female is not derived from male, nor is it even related. In this case, women preceded men. Female comes from the Latin word femella, ?¢‚Ǩ?ìyoung woman, girl,?¢‚Ǩ? which was a diminutive of femina, ?¢‚Ǩ?ìwoman.?¢‚Ǩ? Female came into English by way of Old French
around 1330 and was first spelled femele. Male came along in 1373, also from Latin via Old French. But male derives from the Latin masculus, a diminutive of mas, ?¢‚Ǩ?ìmale.?¢‚Ǩ? As early as 1380 femelle began to be influenced by male, and spellings with an a began to appear. Eventually, female became the standard English spelling.

When used to refer to persons, male and female should be used in parallel and only when relevant: Male and female guards were assigned to the rest rooms. Often people use female and male in a way that draws attention to something perceived as unusual without realizing they are doing this. When the sex of the person performing a job is irrelevant, phrases like a female police officer and a male nurse are viewed by many as offensive, since the gender marking is gratuitous and carries the implication that the norm in certain professions, such as police work, is to be a man and that the norm in other professions, such as nursing, is to be a woman.

As nouns, male and female are generally used in technical, medical, or scientific writing, often to refer to groups of subjects in an experiment, whether humans or other animals: The control group consisted of twelve females and eleven males. Since male and female are used so much in zoology to designate animals, their application to people can sometimes have comical overtones. Nevertheless, they represent a convenient way to avoid repeating phrases like a boy or a man and girls and women: This disease usually affects females.

 

[PrettyBigGuy]

I'm not sure if it is related or not, but I have often seen the word "man" used instead of "human". I have seen this a lot in nature shows on television. The narrators always seem to refer to "the encroachment of man" or "the effect of man".
As to MK's thoughts, Men seem to be a huge target these days. Since we are pretty much "running things" on this planet, we as a whole take the blame for everything that goes wrong.

 

[Andykev]

Originally posted by Zohar
I agree with you on all points. However, I don't consider myself a fully fledged Man yet, because in my opinion a person isn't dry behind the ears till they're at least 30 years old. So for 6 more years, I'll be a young man.

I can't agree on that aspect of picking an arbitrary age like 30. It depends on the person. There are many 18 year olds who flew B-17's , and hit the beaches at Normandy, Iwo Jima, and ...well you get the idea. What a great generation that was!

I started working when I was 10, got a real job at 14, soloed an airplane at 16, the same year I got my dirver license. I graduated from college, began a new career at 26, and married and started a family at 32.

Does all that crap mean I am a "man". I used to look around when some kid would point at me at the store or someplace and say "mommy, look, can I have a soda like that man has..." or whatever it was, and wonder if they were talking about ME. I NEVER got used to being called a man. And when I heard "young man!" at home, it meant I was in trouble.

Now that I have my own family, I can look in the mirror in the morning when I shave and say, "say that guy kinda looks like my father!"

And I promise, my dad was a real man...he did those things the 18 year old did I mentioned above! :clap

 

[Pyroxene]

MK, you writing a book? Musings of a Man by MK

These are some good thoughts. I will have to keep my ear out for these things.

There's a pull in the modern western world to make everything gender neutral. And what they can't, is softened as much as possible.

As far as being blamed for something that goes wrong, I can live with it. If I have made the decision based on the best information I could obtain and in what I feel is right, I'll accept history's judgement.

Cheers,
Pyroxene


BTW - If you use that title, I want credit.

Pyr.

 

[SWTroopers]

Hello folks,

This is my first post here at the "new" digs - a good topic to start with. I'm so tired of all the ninnies with their finger wagging about how I should behave as a man. This combined with the rampant PC nonsense makes me want to run for the hills! My only saving grace is living in Texas where this is at least some value in still being a man (although I could do without the glam-cowboys ).

Right now I'm reading a book by John Eldredge titled Wild at Heart about this very subject. I'm about half-way through, but this book is really hitting it home for me. In a nut-shell, the book explores the emasculation of the modern male. Here the blerb on the back cover:

God designed men to be dangerous, says John Eldredge. Simply look at the dreams and desires written in the heart of every boy: To be a hero, to be a warrior, to live a life of adventure and risk. Sadly, most men abandon those dreams and desires?¢‚Ǩ‚Äùaided by a Christianity that feels like nothing more than pressure to be a ?¢‚Ǩ?ìnice guy.?¢‚Ǩ? It is no wonder that many men avoid church, and those who go are often passive and bored to death. In this provocative book, Eldredge gives women a look inside the true heart of a man and gives men permission to be what God designed them to be?¢‚Ǩ‚Äùdangerous, passionate, alive, and free.

This book has a religious slant that might put some off, but I don't find it preachy. He hopes to motivate men to get in touch with their wild side without giving in to the macho crap/Segall syndrome. It's a real wake-up call, a fun read, and recommended.

Marc

 

[Art Fawcett]

Zohar, when I was about your age I was already becoming successful in my field, making really good money, had a wife & child, some national attention for my work, but when i looked into the mirror every morning I saw a fraud. What do these people know... I'm just a boy still!! It started driving me nuts ( I tend to ask questions of myself) that I was doing a "mans" job, living a "man's" life, but didin't FEEL like a man. I went to a fishing buddy that was older and MUCH more silent ( about 2 sentences an hour was about it) and asked...when do you feel like a man?
In his typical brevity his answer was simple

" When you stop having to prove it!"

Ahhh, why didn't I think of that.

 

[Renderking Fisk]

I woke up this morning in a foul mood and wandered around the house in my pajamas and Akubra trying to figure out why. (I got a funny routine)I did an inventory of my life and what?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s happened in the past few months to make me feel this way.

It dawned on me that I don?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t belong here. I don?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t belong here in this particular time in this particular place. I was a relic before I was born. Don?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t lie, cause I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢m not alone. If you?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢re reading this rant, you?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢re right along side me.

The popular culture is saturated with profanity. Yesterday I was reading a brief snip about how a high school all girl drama club in Amherst Mass is going to do THE VAGINA MONOLOUGES. Imagine that for a minute?¢‚Ǩ¬¶ Teenage girls in a local high school like the one your kids might go to?¢‚Ǩ¬¶ doing THE VAGINA MONOLOUGES.

Every where you go you have Britney Spears showing off everything besides the most naughty of naughty bits, talk on the radio aobut Gay marriage, chicks doing things in commercials and in adds that you have to see in a magazine that you would have had to walk out of the store in a brown paper bag 10 years ago. [Hey?¢‚Ǩ¬¶ he?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s got a porno mag?¢‚Ǩ¬¶ how can I tell? It?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s in a brown paper bag!]

At work, my wife has this fellow co-worker who left for Florida for about a year?¢‚Ǩ¬¶ left an angel came back a slut. Her husband and the father of her two whacked out sons just came out of the closet?¢‚Ǩ¬¶ In and out of marriage for less then 10 years and he figures out not only does he like drugs too much, but he likes other boy?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s naughty bits, as well. Now, my wife?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s friend is out to prove that it wasn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t her fault and that she?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s woman enough. How? By letting any guy who?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s interested in her Scratch her sniff and sniff her scratch?¢‚Ǩ¬¶ if you know what I mean. How do I know all this?¢‚Ǩ¬¶ because after my wife?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s friend does something naughty with one of her OTHER fellow co-workers, her neighbor, the UPS guy?¢‚Ǩ¬¶ she has to call my wife and tell her all about it. No matter how my wife tries to explain that he?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s got a pretty good sex life and doesn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t need to hear this crap?¢‚Ǩ¬¶ the phone still FREAKING RINGS! No doubt, my wife?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s friend from work has to make sure that my wife knows that she?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s just as much of a woman?¢‚Ǩ¬¶ my wife went for quality while she?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s going for quantity. [Do I need to hear the symptoms of oral herpes on her genitals from my wife?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s co-worker???]

Oh yes?¢‚Ǩ¬¶ there?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s more. Some guys have it in their head that you?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢re not a real man if you?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢re not banging all the chicks you can. If she?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s mayonnaise (IE?¢‚Ǩ¬¶ she spreads easily), he?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s obligated to oblige. Some guys even seem to think that you?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢re supposed to be banging other chicks, EVEN AFTER HE?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢S MARRIED.

Getting back MK?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s original point. Men are confused?¢‚Ǩ¬¶ it?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s no wonder why some men go queer. The media is telling you to be in touch with your feelings, be sensitive. Other guys are telling you to be more of a man, Catch more then your limit?¢‚Ǩ¬¶ don?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t let the gold ring on your finger be a barrier! You?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢re supposed to find the right balance with nature?¢‚Ǩ¬¶ know the right wine to go with every meal and know how to change your own spark-plugs as you reformat your hard-drive just before you go out with your family to replant trees to give recently homeless squirrel to live.

Men are being maculated on one hand?¢‚Ǩ¬¶ and falsely pumped up on the other. Has it always been this way? Is the Gentleman?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s culture of the Golden Age a myth? Right now, I don?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t care?¢‚Ǩ¬¶ because from where I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢m sitting, fiction is better then fact.

 

[Sergei]

..."You're effing-A right, Bubba." - Gus Grissom

 

[Andykev]

WOW

Rendering Fisk...wow, that was powerful. As you know, I live in the Bay Area. Known for "anything goes". Well...our phone never rings, no one calls my wife to disclose such filth (if they did I'd pay them a call), and it's sometimes hard to find a seat at the 10'oclock mass on Sunday.

It seems that YOU need to have your beautiful wife tell those callers that she isn't interested, and their "choices" are theirs alone, and do not belong in your home, life, or world.

I have NEVER had a problem with speaking my mind, fighting for the right thing, and taking the moral path when othere have ridiculed me.

My hat is off to you for your moral stand!

 

[CoffeeDude]

Ren,

I can tell you that you were not born at the wrong time. If ever you were called to be born in an era, it's this one! It was decided eons ago where and when you were needed. A lit candle during the day is of little use. However, in the darkness, that candle has value beyond measure. Today?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s society needs the light of your character. It needs the light from all of us here.

I was just thinking the same thing today. I was reading an article on CNN.com and on the site was an ad for Victoria?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s Secret ?¢‚Ǩ‚Äú trust me Victoria no longer has any secrets! It?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s an unending assault on our thought life. I am as susceptible to this as every other guy. We really are reaping the consequences of the 60?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s free love movement. Free love? Look what it has cost us as a society! The whole sex is power idea. What a sham! It a power held only by those without self-worth over those without self-control.

I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢m convinced that when men put aside all the crap society tells us what we should be and take the time to discover what manliness is by having truly wise mentors and actively choosing what fills our minds we will become Men of Renowned, Golden (era) men setting the standard in a disposable society. Men, when we learn how to behave as real men, it frees the women in our circle of influence to become real women. Out of respect and honor for them, gentlemen, we must go first.

To all the men and ladies here, there are a couple of books that I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢d like to recommend to anyone here dealing with what real men look like (internally). They both have a spiritual aspect to them and, granted, they may not appeal to everyone, but please don?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t let that dissuade you from at least checking them out. One is called ?¢‚Ǩ?ìHealing the Masculine Soul?¢‚Ǩ? by Gordon Dalbey and the second is ?¢‚Ǩ?ìWild at Heart?¢‚Ǩ? by John Eldredge. I read Dalbey?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s book several years ago and it was an eye opener. I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢ve just started ?¢‚Ǩ?ìWild at Heart?¢‚Ǩ? and though personally I think his writing style leaves something to be desired, when he does get around to saying what needs to be said, it rings true.

As far as your wife?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s co-worker, she may not know it cognitively or admit it if asked, but she needs the light of your relationship with your wife. I can?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t imagine how deep that wound would be, but it?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s got to be devastating. And she?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s dealing with it just like society told her too. Do whatever it takes to stop the pain - just deal with the symptoms. Just go down any medicine aisle in your local grocery store. Do any of them deal with the root cause? No, they just stop the symptoms. Dry up runny noses; suppress coughs; stop heartburn. The only way society tells us to deal with pain is use emotional Ambesol. Who cares if you?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢re teeth rot out as long as you feel ok. That co-worker needs you two to relearn how to become a real woman

Yeah, Ren, I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢d rather have been born in another time too, but we?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢re right where and when we?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢re needed. I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢m glad you?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢re here to remind us what we are up against! Strong men and women are needed in difficult times and we were born in a time of war.

 

[farnham54]

"A Candle is of little use in the day, but in the darkness..."

I really liked that. Well said.

Being a young college kid, I know EXACTLY what Ren is talking about--you ain't Macho unless you can shotgun 3 beers in as many minutes and if you don't fornicate with at least one different woman a week.

I've recently met the most wonderful young lady, and I can honestly say she is one of the greatest things that has happened to me. The other day, while at the bar, a young man at our table said "Yo Craig, take a look at that! Wouldn't you just love to (insert desired explicit sentence here)" motioning at the waitress bent over another table who was easily within earshot. I said "No, I've got a girlfriend.

He rebuked: "So? Why does that matter?"

So I said "You are right, it doesn't matter. Even if I was single I still wouldn't talk that way about a lady in public".

He didn't get it, much to my dismay. I don't get him.

However, seeing the gentlemen on this board here, and based on their posts, there is hope for some good old fasioned chivalry and decency yet again. As someone already said; we are not perhaps living when we would want to. But we are living when we are needed.

Regards,

Craig

 

[Andykev]

It amazes me

what some cads say in public, and that they treat other people, esp. women, like objects, created only for their own sexual pleasure or fun.

Why? Because you cannot turn on a TV, read most trash on the newsstands, or watch a movie where sex isn't crammed down your throat.

Ever wonder why so many kids and young girls end up missing and their photo on a milk carton?

If you meet "Miss Mayonnaise" who whispers in her girlfriends ear gigling "whoops I did it again"... RUN! Those kinds of girls were not presented in "nice company". They were the working girls in the red light district. They likely are spreading some terrible disease or a gift that keeps on giving.

It's just like the male attitude that it's ok to cheat, everyone does it, etc etc.... Well Mr. Bill, you did not have sexual relations with that woman....but how would you feel if Hillary gave to other men what you just got?

Double standards, and rotten ones at that.

Lets bring back discretion, patience, and respect.

 

[Michaelson]

I think the bottom line for me is that the measure of a man is not his words, but his actions. Didn't used to be that way. A man's word WAS his bond. You knew if he said something, it was just a matter of him getting out of his chair and making it so. He spoke straight. What you heard him say today, you could take to the bank, and KNEW he would not be stepping aside and making a contrary statement to someone in brag or otherwise regarding the same subject. If he discovered he was wrong, he admitted it, and changed course, but based it on that discovery of his wrong thinking, and apologized for his mistake, he then took his stand based on that newly discovered truth, and you KNEW he would (and did) ACT on those beliefs, not just talk about them.

Today, talk is cheap, and lately, hollow. You can make a statement of what your plans are, but once said, DO! Even if it hurts. DO. Even if it's wrong. DO. If it was wrong, then correct it, but DO! That's what is missing today. Lots of words,spoken and written, and little or no action to BACK those words, and today that's considered acceptable. To me, it's just that simple. Everything else, to me, is just a sidebar to that truth. Regards. Michaelson

 

[Matt Deckard]

Still proud to be a man!

 

[varga49]

Iron John

MK...interesting thread! Here's a book for you to check out! "Iron John" by Robert Bly...That I trust you will find equally interesting! Anyone out there read it??

 

[Biltmore Bob]

I'm a man...

Right after HS I went into the Marines. Right after that I became a cop and a daddy. Right after that I became a Christian and had a couple more kids. I teach my boy to act like a man and treat women like ladies.

I hate modern modern culture and counter culture. I hate the effeminization of America. I tell my boy to defend himself in school (girls too for that matter). I say what I mean and mean what I say, I get in trouble all the time for it. I usually say what everybody else is thinking, however.

 

[gobler]

I say what I mean and mean what I say, I get in trouble all the time for it. I usually say what everybody else is thinking, however.

Oh I hear ya. I'm in constant hot water with my friends and at times with my gal for speaking my mind. I usually don't white wash my thoughts like most people do. In fact I have found myself becoming anti-pc out of shear frustration with what MK mentioned in the first post. I'm a bad guy for being a white MAN! I'm sick of being blamed for every thing that goes wrong in this world but I will gladly take my lumps for the foul ups that I cause That's also being a man, accepting responsibility for your own mistakes. Very few people these days take the blame, they just pass the buck as they say. Men, true men have become a rarity and by God we, the last few men, need to pass on the proper mannerisms to our hires.


Cheers,
Jeff