Are film noire motion pictures in color an oxymoron?

[Naphtali]

Perhaps "oxymoron" is too strident. I can think of three -- two excellent and one good -- "Chinatown" (1974, Jack Nicholson, Fay Dunaway, John Huston), "The French Connection" (1971, Gene Hackman, Roy Scheider, Fernando Rey), and "The Killers" (1964, Lee Marvin, Angie Dickenson, Ronald Reagan).

Are there others?

What is it about color that mitigates against being used for film noire?

 

[just_me]

Perhaps "oxymoron" is too strident. I can think of three -- two excellent and one good -- "Chinatown" (1974, Jack Nicholson, Fay Dunaway, John Huston), "The French Connection" (1971, Gene Hackman, Roy Scheider, Fernando Rey), and "The Killers" (1964, Lee Marvin, Angie Dickenson, Ronald Reagan).

Are there others?

Farewell My Lovely with Robert Mitchum.
LA Confidential

 

[Slim Portly]

What is it about color that mitigates against being used for film noire?

Beats me. "Noir" refers to the mood, not the color of the film.

 

[3PcSuit]

I don't think so.

At the same time, I wish more filmmakers had the cahones to actually shoot B&W. "Schindler's List" was one of the last attempts and that is more than 15 years ago now!

Even films that are finished to B&W are now being shot more and more on color film, which also doesn't quite have the noir look.

 

[Guttersnipe]

Brick (2005) was filmed in color, where as, The Good German (2006) was filmed in black and white. Both films are exceptional modern noir, and both use extensive use of shadow to convey mood.

I agree with what has already been said, that noir is about the overall mood of a piece. The only thing I would add is that films in color can use lighting very effectively to tone scenes for a particular mood, as the makers of Brick did to great effect.

 

[3PcSuit]

"Good German" wasn't filmed in B&W, it was filmed in color and desaturated digitally.

Despite this, it is probably the closest I've seen (although it was never released in theatres here sadly so I didn't get to evaluate this on the big screen) to the look of real B&W negative from color film.

 

[Lily Powers]

"Hollywood Confidential" (Russell Crowe, Kim Bassinger) kept that noir vibe, but I prefer the black and movies. The lighting and shadows are staged especially for B&W and for me, it just adds to the feel of the movie, the era and the culture of Hollywood at the time.

 

[SamMarlowPI]

this might be going out on a limb, but 'Batman' with keaton i think is very noir...even though it is set in the late 80s and is a story of a masked crusader, the entire mood of the film is very classic, imo...very dark, very golden era fashion (the reporter even had those arm band things for the sleeves)...the reason i really really like it...the other is kim basinger and jack nicholson...

 

[3PcSuit]

Unfortunately, one of the qualities of early noir that you can't get back entirely is halation, the haziness you used to see, which they traded in for film that didn't spontaneously combust ;-)

It's not just B&W film though, it was a style of lighting too, very hard, directional lighting that made classic noir what it was. Unfortunately, modern lighting, even in films of the same intended style, seems to be much softer.

I think a great modern noir was "Minority Report". I was, unfortunately, a victim to the advertising, which made it out to be a stupid action movie with a simplistic story. I really regret missing out on this on the big screen.

I did get a chance to see a 35mm print of "Chinatown" and that was a real treat. IDK if I'd describe it as noir, as it had very modern elements in the way it was shot, but the story itself was obviously the very essence of the genre.

 

[vintage68]

I'd have to say no, black and white is not needed.

One of my favorite noir films is Last Man Standing with Bruce Willis, another is Blade Runner. Both were shot in color, and both conveyed the mood and sensibilities of noir perfectly.

I highly recommend "It's a Bitter Little World" by Charles Pappas for a good exploration of this subject.

 

[Red Diabla]

I consider Body Heat to be a noir film that's in color.

RD

 

[3PcSuit]

I'd have to say no, black and white is not needed.

One of my favorite noir films is Last Man Standing with Bruce Willis, another is Blade Runner. Both were shot in color, and both conveyed the mood and sensibilities of noir perfectly.

I highly recommend "It's a Bitter Little World" by Charles Pappas for a good exploration of this subject.

Not needed?

So are B&W movies obsolete then? We should just build a bonfire and throw them all in. . .

 

[Feraud]

Not needed?

So are B&W movies obsolete then? We should just build a bonfire and throw them all in. . .

I think he simply means not a requirement.
Considering how Noir elements show up in so many color films he could be right..

 

[Widebrim]

I don't think so.

At the same time, I wish more filmmakers had the cajones to actually shoot B&W. "Schindler's List" was one of the last attempts and that is more than 15 years ago now!

Even films that are finished to B&W are now being shot more and more on color film, which also doesn't quite have the noir look.

True. The Man Who Wasn't There (2001) was, I believe, shot on color stock and then desaturated. The result looks glossy, but does not capture the starkness often seen in old b/w noir.