Alphonse Capone's Hat

[Tomasso]

Yeah, lots of fatheads in America.

 

[facade]

Not sure obesity has much effect on hat size, I'm 50 pounds heavier than when I graduated high school almost 30 years ago. Same hat size. My father is the same hat size as well and he's probably 50 pounds heavier than I. Perhaps if one is morbidly obese this might be true.

People store fat differently. I lost some weight and my hat size went down, so it was true for me. And no I wasn't morbidly obese. I also imagine where in the range you start from matters. If one is a small 7 3/8 and then gains weight, they may stay in the 3/8 range. However if the were already at the higher end of 3/8, then weight gain could easily push them in to a 7 1/2.

 

[guitarmasta12]

I will check out some Borsalinos

 

[guitarmasta12]

Hmmmm ok.

 

[Stanley Doble]

Somewhere around here I have the autobiography of a professional magician. In the twenties, in Chicago he bought himself a snappy new lid but stopped wearing it when a friend warned him that he had bought the same hat that was the trademark of the "blanco mob" and that it would be healthier not to wear it around Chicago.

So it seems there was a distinctive style and color of hat associated with Capone and his henchmen.

 

[bond]

Here's a Capone style hat I just made . I left it un shaped for who ever gets it to shape them selves. Color is Bone with Silverbelly crown ribbon and Muffalone binding. Silk liner.

 

[Joshbru3]

Okay, here's an honest question. Does any one know what brand/model pf the hat Al Capone is wearing in my profile pic and avatar? I'd love to buy one of those for my collection. It's a very awesome looking hat. Agree? Hehe! If it's a custom hat then it's probably impossible to get one.....maybe.

This question has been asked numerous times and to be honest there is really no definitive answer. We CAN make some assumptions though.....Capone had quite the yearly income and based on the fact that he liked very nice objects, we can assume that his hats were fairly expensive and higher end. I would guess that he wore Borsalino's, Stetson's, Cavanagh's, or any other higher end brand. My gut tells me that he wore Borsalino's.....I have heard stories of him getting custom tailored Italian suits. Well, being that Borsalino was the biggest and oldest Italian manufacture and the fact that Capone was an Italian-American, my instinct would tell me Borsalino.

The ribbon appears to be 2 or 2 1/8 inches wide as was the most popular ribbon width in the 20's/30's for Dress hats. If we assume that the ribbon was 2 inches wide in real life, when measured on screen in the picture the ribbon is 1/4 inches tall. The tallest part of the crown in the picture is measured at 5 /8 of an inch. With a little math, that would yield a height of 5 inches tall (creased). Thats not a super tall crown and from my experience was most likely a 5 5/8 - 5 3/4 inch open crown. The brim is hard to measure in the picture, but it appears to be about 2 3/8 - 2 1/2 inches wide with a flatter flange, which would fall in line with popular brim widths at the time.

Basically, if you take a white/silverbelly/off-white/cream hat body, block it to 5 3/4 inches open, chop the brim to 2 3/8 - 2 1/2 inches wide, sew on a 2 inch black ribbon, flange the brim fairly flat, and crease the crown with a center dent and side pinches.......you will have "Capone's hat."

 

[alanfgag]

Then again, you could choose this one.

 

[fedoracentric]

Well, being that Borsalino was the biggest and oldest Italian manufacture and the fact that Capone was an Italian-American, my instinct would tell me Borsalino.

And since the mob was so conscious about family heritage, I'd bet that he was almost exclusively interested in Borsos.

 

[Garrett]

Its interesting that this hat keeps coming up throughout the years. I've had it made three times by different custom hatters but have never been happy with the final product. There is currently a collaboration in the works with BSHW and we are using mostly vintage components, including a 2 1/4" ribbon which I think the original actually was, a 52 block which the original likely was not but close enough for my tastes. Will post it in the weeks to come.

 

[Aureliano]

This question has been asked numerous times and to be honest there is really no definitive answer. We CAN make some assumptions though.....Capone had quite the yearly income and based on the fact that he liked very nice objects, we can assume that his hats were fairly expensive and higher end. I would guess that he wore Borsalino's, Stetson's, Cavanagh's, or any other higher end brand. My gut tells me that he wore Borsalino's.....I have heard stories of him getting custom tailored Italian suits. Well, being that Borsalino was the biggest and oldest Italian manufacture and the fact that Capone was an Italian-American, my instinct would tell me Borsalino.

The ribbon appears to be 2 or 2 1/8 inches wide as was the most popular ribbon width in the 20's/30's for Dress hats. If we assume that the ribbon was 2 inches wide in real life, when measured on screen in the picture the ribbon is 1/4 inches tall. The tallest part of the crown in the picture is measured at 5 /8 of an inch. With a little math, that would yield a height of 5 inches tall (creased). Thats not a super tall crown and from my experience was most likely a 5 5/8 - 5 3/4 inch open crown. The brim is hard to measure in the picture, but it appears to be about 2 3/8 - 2 1/2 inches wide with a flatter flange, which would fall in line with popular brim widths at the time.

Basically, if you take a white/silverbelly/off-white/cream hat body, block it to 5 3/4 inches open, chop the brim to 2 3/8 - 2 1/2 inches wide, sew on a 2 inch black ribbon, flange the brim fairly flat, and crease the crown with a center dent and side pinches.......you will have "Capone's hat."

Just stumbled upon this thread... A quick word that might be relevant. At the Borsalino Museum in Alessandria, they have a hat in one of their glass cases labeled as the Al Capone hat. Most likely not the one he actually wore, but a reference depicting the style Borsalino made for him.

 

[TheDane]

[...] a 52 block which the original likely was not but close enough for my tastes.

I think, the #52 (or "Columbia") block is a very likely guess. The quite flat top of the #52 lends itself almost perfectly to a centre-dent - and the full-crowned, rather flat-topped blocks were the most used for centre-dented fedoras in the 20s and 30s. It will very likely be dead on

 

[Tomasso]

I've had it made three times by different custom hatters but have never been happy with the final product.

Care to name the hatters so that the OP doesn't make the same mistake.

 

[Garrett]

The OP's mileage may vary. I tend to be more demanding of hatters than your average lounger.

 

[bond]

Yes used a #52 block for my Capone hat.

 

[Joshbru3]

I think, the #52 (or "Columbia") block is a very likely guess. The quite flat top of the #52 lends itself almost perfectly to a centre-dent - and the full-crowned, rather flat-topped blocks were the most used for centre-dented fedoras in the 20s and 30s. It will very likely be dead on

I very respectfully disagree about the 52 or Columbia block, Ole. I own both 52 blocks and blocks marked Columbia. The Columbia blocks are the straightest sided and flattest topped blocks I have ever seen, even more so than the 52's. I have handled a good amount of 20's/30's European hats and for the most part, the block profiles were not flat on top, they were more rounded. I am not saying that there were no European hats made with 52 and Columbia blocks, but from my experience, the straighter sided and flatter topped block profiles were an American thing. Even out of all the 20's/30's American hats I have owned, many of them used rounded topped block profiles. They were tall, but more round.

To be honest, the BEST block profile for executing a very square creased hat (looking at it from the side) is one that is very tall and tapers on top. The reason being is that once the top of the crown is deeply creased down into a center crease, there is a certain point where to hat "squares" up and yields straight sides. (Lots of examples of this in the German/Austrian hat thread) If you shallow crease a tall crowned hat that tapers on top, the hat never "squares" up and therefore would look tapered.

A 52 or Columbia block works the opposite. You must shallow crease a flat top block profiled hat because it doesn't take much to square up due to the square shoulders of the block and the fullness of it as well. If you deep crease a flat topped block profiled hat, the shoulders actually pull inwards and create taper. I have seen it time and time again because I often use a 52 or Columbia block to block my own hats. I always crease the hats using a shallow center crease because I have tried creasing with a deep center crease and it always creates taper.

Looking at the picture of Capone, and suspecting that he wore a European made hat, I would honestly say that his Open Crown was more round on top. The picture shows his hat creased fairly deeply and it still remained fairly full on top. If he was wearing a Borsalino, I would put money on the fact that his open Crown was something more like a 51, or even more tapered on top to yield that straighter creased profile with deep center crease.

 

[tonyb]

Josh raises a couple of good points. When we speak of "taper," it's best to be clear about the perspective. From the sides? Or from the front and back? And he's right that relatively flat-topped blocks (relatively, remember) with a sudden "shoulder" (meaning that the transition from sides to top is not gradual) tend to show more taper, when viewed from the sides, that somewhat rounder-topped blocks, for the reason he cited.

And then there are diamond top creases. That yields a straighter crown, when viewed from the front and back. There's another trick, which Ill keep to myself, for getting REVERSE taper (when viewed from the sides) that has very little to do with the block itself. There's a hint there.

I also concur with Josh on his take on Columbia blocks vs. No. 52 blocks. I have examples of both, and the Columbias are straighter. But I wonder how much consistency there was from block manufacturer to block manufacturer back in the early 20th century. I have blocks marked as 5 3/4 inches tall that are actually taller than blocks marked 6 inches tall. If there's a significant fudge factor with that measurement, you gotta wonder how inconsistent the other markings might be.

 

[guitarmasta12]

This question has been asked numerous times and to be honest there is really no definitive answer. We CAN make some assumptions though.....Capone had quite the yearly income and based on the fact that he liked very nice objects, we can assume that his hats were fairly expensive and higher end. I would guess that he wore Borsalino's, Stetson's, Cavanagh's, or any other higher end brand. My gut tells me that he wore Borsalino's.....I have heard stories of him getting custom tailored Italian suits. Well, being that Borsalino was the biggest and oldest Italian manufacture and the fact that Capone was an Italian-American, my instinct would tell me Borsalino.

The ribbon appears to be 2 or 2 1/8 inches wide as was the most popular ribbon width in the 20's/30's for Dress hats. If we assume that the ribbon was 2 inches wide in real life, when measured on screen in the picture the ribbon is 1/4 inches tall. The tallest part of the crown in the picture is measured at 5 /8 of an inch. With a little math, that would yield a height of 5 inches tall (creased). Thats not a super tall crown and from my experience was most likely a 5 5/8 - 5 3/4 inch open crown. The brim is hard to measure in the picture, but it appears to be about 2 3/8 - 2 1/2 inches wide with a flatter flange, which would fall in line with popular brim widths at the time.

Basically, if you take a white/silverbelly/off-white/cream hat body, block it to 5 3/4 inches open, chop the brim to 2 3/8 - 2 1/2 inches wide, sew on a 2 inch black ribbon, flange the brim fairly flat, and crease the crown with a center dent and side pinches.......you will have "Capone's hat."

Thanks for the info. It's safe to say that mobsters of that time always had perfect looking hats hehe!

 

[bond]

Only Capone and his tailor knew what kind of hat he wore.

 

[guitarmasta12]

Only Capone and his tailor knew what kind of hat he wore.

Well thats true but I'm trying to get a hat thats like a replica or a hat made similar.