Alpha MA-1 Revisited

[KELORGO]

I bought one of the "blood chit" Alpha MA-1s for my dad for Christmas. To the best of my understanding, they are "special additions". My dad flew in Huey's very early in the Vietnam war and has an original silk blood chit hanging on the wall behind his bar. When he unwrapped the jacket, he asked me how I had taken the blood chit without him knowing.

The jacket is nicely made and well constructed, with the blood chit sewn in to the liner. It's perfect for my dad's purposes.

 

[Atticus Finch]

That raises an interesting point about repros - should they be 100% duplications of vintage jackets, sizing, flaws and all? or does a good repro make some improvements and upgrades and perhaps even some changes to proportions...

I've read much discussion about this over the years...here and on VLJ. My personal feeling is that a jacket being sold as a "reproduction" should be an accurate reproduction of the original. Otherwise, it isn't a reproduction. In fact, I prefer that the jacket reproduce the details of a specific jacket. In other words, it shouldn't be a repro of an MA-1. It should be a repro of a 1958 B-series Dobbs MA-1 or a 1961 Skyline C-series MA-1. This is especially true if the name of the jacket includes words like "Vintage" or "Replica".

Of course, there's plenty of room in my heart for jackets that are based on an original but aren't accurate reproductions. But I think they should be called "New Model" jackets or "New Issue" or whatever.

Just my two cents.

AF

 

[AustinTX]

I do understand your reasons for wanting a repro as opposed to an original. I often forget a couple of things. First, MA-1s fit me better than almost any other military jacket because I'm "thick" and original MA-1s are short-waisted and puffy. It’s a match made in heaven. But vintage nylon isn't for everyone, especially taller people with long torsos. Tall, long-waisted guys often look like matadors when they wear original ‘50s nylon…especially L-2Bs. Second, I’m a nylon geek who is overly interested in useless jacket minutia. I sometimes forget that many folks just want a nice jacket to wear and couldn’t care less if it is from the first contract after the Air Force changed from green linings to orange.

To finally address your question...I think the jacket you are looking at is a newer, civilain Alpha. I have never seen an MA-1...original or otherwise...with a blood chit printed on the lining. So I think this is a new offering from Alpha.

AF

Thanks for your answer. Actually I do care to an extent about the history of certain jackets; it's pretty interesting and I can see how it could become a running passion. But yes, wearability, budget, and fit are more in the forefront for me. If it can also be historically accurate, all the better. I don't care for most of the outerwear I see on racks these days.

 

[Doctor Damage]

That raises an interesting point about repros - should they be 100% duplications of vintage jackets, sizing, flaws and all? or does a good repro make some improvements and upgrades and perhaps even some changes to proportions...

I've read much discussion about this over the years...here and on VLJ. My personal feeling is that a jacket being sold as a "reproduction" should be an accurate reproduction of the original. Otherwise, it isn't a reproduction. In fact, I prefer that the jacket reproduce the details of a specific jacket. In other words, it shouldn't be a repro of an MA-1. It should be a repro of a 1958 B-series Dobbs MA-1 or a 1961 Skyline C-series MA-1. This is especially true if the name of the jacket includes words like "Vintage" or "Replica".

Of course, there's plenty of room in my heart for jackets that are based on an original but aren't accurate reproductions. But I think they should be called "New Model" jackets or "New Issue" or whatever.

I completely agree with you on the issue of identifying jackets honestly and I really dislike seeing tags and labels in reproductions which are such close copies of original tags and labels that they could easily be mistaken as originals (which is in fact the intention I think, in some cases). And I agree that if you're going to do a reproduction you might as well do it right.

 

[Justhandguns]

I've read much discussion about this over the years...here and on VLJ. My personal feeling is that a jacket being sold as a "reproduction" should be an accurate reproduction of the original. Otherwise, it isn't a reproduction. In fact, I prefer that the jacket reproduce the details of a specific jacket. In other words, it shouldn't be a repro of an MA-1. It should be a repro of a 1958 B-series Dobbs MA-1 or a 1961 Skyline C-series MA-1. This is especially true if the name of the jacket includes words like "Vintage" or "Replica".
AF

I agree, a repro is a repro, reproduction of the original. That includes the the flaws as well. And that is why some hi-end companies are charging so much for their products, including the sourcing of NOS zippers, knits, metal hardwares etc.

I completely agree with you on the issue of identifying jackets honestly and I really dislike seeing tags and labels in reproductions which are such close copies of original tags and labels that they could easily be mistaken as originals (which is in fact the intention I think, in some cases). And I agree that if you're going to do a reproduction you might as well do it right.

Yes, that creates some problems as there were some recent items on the infamous bidding website selling Goodwear and Eastman jackets as originals. Of course, for some repros, they may even have a higher price tags than mint originals, maybe that is why less people are doing it. But then again, when the price of an original MA-1 starts selling for 1grand online, fake originals will appear, trust me on this.

 

[Doctor Damage]

Several years back on a lark I ordered the Eastman catalogue, but I was turned off by the tags which never said "this is a modern-day replica of a vintage jacket." The only thing I could see to differentiate was the name Eastman Leather Co which only someone knowledgeable would know never existed in 1940 or 1941. Perhaps one could argue that if there are no differences then the copy is as genuine as the original, it just wasn't "there at the time". I don't know. I sometimes think the people who buy these jackets buy them for the damn labels or the zippers and the jacket itself is reluctantly accepted since it came attached to the label and zipper and they couldn't get the label or zipper separately, lol

 

[bn1966]

I now always check labels and zippers when looking at jackets on the Bay to try & work out whether some jackets are original service issue or modern repro & have to smile at some of the 'vintage' sales on there.

When I first ventured into WW2 'repro' jackets as a youngster I had some nasty purchase experiences, one day I was talking to a work colleague who mentioned 'Eastmans' down at Ivybridge (Devon). I rang them, based on the conversation I subsequently had with Eastmans a trip to Devon was forthcoming.. Based on that trip I'm now the happy owner of a number of jackets & other products from that company.

I must admit to being scared of the 'Elite Unit' specials.

 

[Justhandguns]

I now always check labels and zippers when looking at jackets on the Bay to try & work out whether some jackets are original service issue or modern repro & have to smile at some of the 'vintage' sales on there.

When I first ventured into WW2 'repro' jackets as a youngster I had some nasty purchase experiences, one day I was talking to a work colleague who mentioned 'Eastmans' down at Ivybridge (Devon). I rang them, based on the conversation I subsequently had with Eastmans a trip to Devon was forthcoming.. Based on that trip I'm now the happy owner of a number of jackets & other products from that company.

I must admit to being scared of the 'Elite Unit' specials.

Well, yes, we all have learned out lessons the hard way.

FYI, most Japanese made repros have extra tags somewhere sewed inside the jacket, usually the brand and the country of origin.
For Buzz Rickson, you will usually find a Toyo Industries tag somewhere, same for Real McCoys, Toy And The Few. I guess it is partly
because that there are export regulation for goods in Japan which requires a tag of the make and country of origin, plus the Japanese
are really proud of their creations, they need to put a Made in Japan tag in there somewhere to show off.
For Eastman HH jackets, they have a label saying Genuine HorseHide sewed inside the pockets. No country of origins though, but we
all assume that they are all made in Devon. For the original maker series, there is no extra Eastman tag as far as I know, easy target
for those who want to 'fake it'.
Aero is sometimes difficult to tell, but they only offer a few repro contract numbers, so if someone sells you an original vintage jacket
with those contract numbers, be aware.
I have no experience with Goodwear though, but they are so well made that even experts find it hard to tell the difference by looking
at the tiny photos online.

P.S. Elite Unit specials...... made for the Asian market I guess, they do love patches on their jackets. Somehow I also like them but in a more subtle way, not like you have a huge leather bloodchit sewed at the back of the jacket, plus the Chinese characters are just written in such an ugly way, like asking a primary school boy to do it for them.

 

[Sloan1874]

Just snagged a US-made, new old stock mil-spec MA-1 this morning on the bay. Made in the 80s, still has the tag on it. Paid pretty much the same money - £50 - so I'll be interested to see how it compares to my modern N-2.



I think that's enough nylon for me just now though...

 

[Atticus Finch]

Just snagged a US-made, new old stock mil-spec MA-1 this morning on the bay. Made in the 80s, still has the tag on it. Paid pretty much the same money - £50 - so I'll be interested to see how it compares to my modern N-2.

View attachment 8502

I think that's enough nylon for me just now though...

Sloan...before I read this post I PMed you about buying this jacket. You did well!

AF

 

[Sloan1874]

Just PM-ed before I saw your reply!

 

[Doctor Damage]

 

[Draznek]

Had my MA 1 for about 18 years how can I tell if its real or repro ect? I bought it in surplus shop.
pic of the label http://flic.kr/p/khcded


Edit I just noticed it does have the 3 bars for civilian jacket as kowalski mentioned

 

[Doctor Damage]

Had my MA 1 for about 18 years how can I tell if its real or repro ect? I bought it in surplus shop.
pic of the label http://flic.kr/p/khcded


Edit I just noticed it does have the 3 bars for civilian jacket as kowalski mentioned

He and you are right - it's civilian. Also the "tall" length is a tell since I don't think the military jackets came in different lengths. But unless you are a collector, from what I have seen the difference between late model military jackets and civilian jackets isn't very much, if anything at all, so wear your jacket and and enjoy it.

 

[Doctor Damage]

Alpha MA-1 for your dog!

 

[Edward]

Hilarious! If it was brown, that look would remind me of some of the Irvin repros I've seen.... ;-)

 

[Doctor Damage]

For what it's worth, here's an image comparing the fit of the Alpha Knox Armory and regular Alpha models. It's from a Japanese website, so I don't know if there are size differences.

 

[bn1966]

Mmmmmm...I'd lean towards the Knox I think on the strength of that photo

 

[Sloan1874]

Has anyone ever held a Knox one, and comment on the quality relative to the Alpha?

 

[Doctor Damage]

Just picked up two of the standard Alpha MA-1 jackets, both Made in the USA. Normal green and the dark teal colours. Shells and liners are in excellent condition, but the knits on both are pilling heavily, as one might expect for older jackets. Not sure if I will keep them, since they're quite insubstantial and can't hold a candle to my Alpha Replica MA-1, but it's nice to have a light jacket sitting around and their age argues against treating them with kid gloves.