Aloofness in Re-enactment.

[Guttersnipe]

I ran into one particular 'die-hard' who had a Captain's battledress from the Royal Signals, which was actually used in WWII, and was in such an appalling condition that it was tattered and threadbare.

I, on the other hand, had a period jacket and cap in good condition which were rare and good finds, and the rest of my kit is reproduction. He seemed to think that he looked far more authentic, but didn't seem to realise that uniforms issued at the time weren't actually 60 years old.

When I was a company commander in an American Civil War renactment group, I was ardent about my guys not having their uniforms dry cleaned. Across all eras of reenacting, two things are common in detracting from reenactors appearances; they are too clean and too fat.

While I don't think it's reasonable to expect middle aged civilians to be as slender as half starved 20 somethings, it's perfectly reasonable to expect them to weather/distress equipment to appear as they would on campaign. Conversely, when we wore our pre/early war militia kit, I fully expected mirror shined brass, glossy leathers, and brushed clean uniforms ... it's all about context.

 

[1930artdeco]

I had a run in with a former warrent officer (that is what he said) who thought he was perfect in his bare uniform. He started to berate me and it was all I could do to not put him through a bulkhead. That is the person I hate when it comes to reenacting. If there is something wrong then let the person know-politely. Maybe they know already and are trying to improve or don't have the money right now. And to top it off after he berated me he wanted me to come over to his reenactment camp and help him. Incidently, I saw him at a different function and he complimented me and walked off. I am not sure if he recognized me or not.

I talked with another guy later the same day that I had the initial runin and he was nice about telling me that my pants were incorrect for the sam brown belt I was wearing. That all being said, some guys-Army and Airforce for the most part got what they got when they got home for uniforms. Heck, someone here posted pics of their grandfather who was in the Navy, with white socks on in his dress blues at home.

One thing that I sort of take issue with is people telling someone that they are out of uniform whenthey have proof that the person they are portraying wore they uniform that way. Either by talking to them or with a photograph. But I also understand that they have to have a base line (in this case the Regs.).

Mike

 

[Mr Lilleythorpe]

When I did the 125th of the American War Between the States, we had been doing battles from different years of the war. It was key to have an early war appearance for Manassas & a late war appearance for Appomattox. Some folks could only afford 1 Confederate uniform but butternuts wouldn't look right at Bull Run & fresh wools wouldn't go for Shiloh. Leather goods were okay but looking threadbare for the early battles was not accurate.

Yes, but a Captain in the Signals in the Second World War, in an SOE station in a stately home (who should really be wearing a Service dress uniform, really) had no excuse for having a uniform that had strips hanging off it. Even in battle, a Captain wouldn't look like that, unless he'd recently been set on fire and left in a cupboard for sixty years.

 

[Guttersnipe]

Yes, but a Captain in the Signals in the Second World War, in an SOE station in a stately home (who should really be wearing a Service dress uniform, really) had no excuse for having a uniform that had strips hanging off it. Even in battle, a Captain wouldn't look like that, unless he'd recently been set on fire and left in a cupboard for sixty years.

On home service, you have a point, but even the privileges of rank tend to fall by the wayside in combat conditions. Combat is dirty ... Very ... Very ... Dirty. It cannot be overstated enough. A friend of my father was a Navy corpsman assigned to a Marine platoon in Viietnam. He told me their utility greens would be so filthy on patrol, the would often become tattered rags that would be burned once they were back within supply range, and that included their LT.

There is a well known occurrence where, having made a circling reconnaissance around the union army, J.E.B. Stewart rode up to R.E. Lee, made his report regarding enemy troop disbursements, then both men laid down on the ground and fell asleep with nothing but their overcoats for bedding (in case you don't know, that's five stars worth of general sleeping under the stars).

 

[p51]

Veterans as a whole do not look down upon reenactors.

Maybe in your group that is the case but I can assure you that it is indeed very common for people who have served to down upon those who haven't within the hobby, especially for the WW2 guys.
I see it most of all among the airborne types (which of course are now everywhere. That was a rare impression when I got into the hobby in the late 1980s), especially with the ones who have jumped 5 times in post-WW2 peacetime training, who then feel they're on the same level as combat jump vets.
I was a US Army officer, so people don't pull any of that, "you're not in the club" nonsense. But I don't consider myself any more worthy of the hobby than anyone else because I didn't serve in WW2. Many people don't see it that way at all and never will.
The funny thing is that when I have my WW2 war correspondent (non-combatant) display and uniform on, people will ask others in the group what 'my deal' is, in that I apparently can't wear the combat stuff. Many people in my group never served and it's always funny when someone has to explain I served and represent a civilian, when many people in the group never served and are dressed like the high-speed killer types that TV series get made about. It really fries people's brains when that happens...

 

[rjb1]

Perhaps it's a regional phenomenon, but when I read the following I was really amazed:
"Maybe in your group that is the case but I can assure you that it is indeed very common for people who have served to [look] down upon those who haven't within the hobby, especially for the WW2 guys."
Around here (mid-South, near Ft. Campbell) I have never, repeat never, had or seen any negative reaction from any veterans, Airborne or otherwise. And we have (or used to have) a LOT of WWII airborne vets since they tended to settle near Ft. Campbell after they retired.
Perhaps, being mostly Southern (or adopted Southerners), if they have had negative feelings they have been polite enough not to say anything, but the fact remains that I have never experienced such things.
To the contrary, I have met so many veterans (WWII and later) who have had nothing but good things to say about us and what we were doing. Our reenacting unit is affiliated with the 101st Airborne Museum at Ft. Campbell and when we have Museum display events we get who knows how many veterans (or current active-duty soldiers) coming through in a day's time, and none of them have ever had negative reactions. This is also true for other off-post events.
Also, I have been at lots of events with non-101st units and they never have had any such negative treatment either.
It's not that things like that have happened and I just don't remember. I don't have the best memory in the world, but if any such things had happened they would have glaringly stood out, and I would remember them.

(Within the unit itself about 2/3 are modern-era 101st vets with multiple tours of Irag and Afghanistan, and they don't treat those of us who were not in the military in any sort of negative way, either.)

 

[p51]

Maybe I didn't explain myself correctly. I wasn't talking about WW2 vets, as the post from Hunter_aka_Scotty talked about people who'd served and not WW2 vets as such and I was following on that line of thought.
Now that we all understand I was talking about postwar vets, I stand by my comment. I see post-WW2 vets within the hobby all the time sneering on those who've never served.
I've also had some nasty run-ins with cold war-era vets in the public who've had issues with the hobby in general at public events. I live in the Pacific Northwest, where there can often be a decidedly 'off center' view of things from time to time.

 

[Hunter_aka_Scotty]

P51 I still completely disagree with you. It appears you have had a unique set of bad circumstances. Every year we do an event in San Jose California called "The Spirit of '45". Where loads, and I do mean loads, of WW2 veterans come out and talk with WW2 Reenactors. They have all appreciated the up most respect we show them and they express how much they appreciate our efforts to keep their memory alive and respectful. I had one gentleman who was a Tuskegee Airman come up to me and my group of WW2 Italian Bersaglieri group and ask to shake my hand because we looked exactly like they guys he remembered flying over once! I can assure you, the honor was all mine.

As for post-war vets. Almost every male in my family is a veteran, my next door neighbor is a Vietnam veteran, and I have encountered many many veterans in my walks through life and I can tell you I have NEVER once experienced any form of contempt toward reenactors from veterans. Especially being as most reenactors themselves ARE veterans. And not just with in my club. I do way too many different eras of reenacting and belong to way too many different clubs. I have attended events both on the East coast and West. I live in Northern California and the only reason I never served myself was because I was found medically unfit.

 

[kampkatz]

I appreciate all the experiences being shared. As a spectator at any re-enactment I want to learn as much about the period as possible. The re-enactors who explain equipment, and admit that some repro gear may not be accurate are being honest. I admire anyone willing to spend time and $ to help preserve an era and educate us bystanders.

 

[p51]

P51 I still completely disagree with you. It appears you have had a unique set of bad circumstances.

Nothing unique about it. It's very common where I live in the Puget Sound area. I've talked with plenty of people in other groups in the area and it's happened to many of them as well. Must be a regional thing.
NEVER from WW2 re-enactors, though.

 

[rjb1]

Thanks for the clarification about not referring to WW2 vets in this regard. They don't call them the Greatest Generation for nothing. There are probably some cranky or downright mean ones out there somewhere, but I haven't encountered one yet.

As for more modern vets, I haven't seen or heard about any negative reactions, but I admit to being concerned about that possibility.
The theme of this year's 101st Airborne Division's reunion ("Week of Eagles") was "Vietnam "and they wanted us to have a Vietnam display while the Army was sponsoring a simulated helicopter assault (Hueys and Cobras).
I literally was worried that we might have problems of the sort you mentioned, but fortunately we had none.

 

[ButteMT61]

The WWII era guys are the cream of the crop. Class acts. It's truly the guys post 'Nam that seem to be the d*cks. I've spent hours chatting with WWII guys. Unselfish to the hilt. Some of them can barely stand or walk, yet will sit and tell you stories until your legs give out.
In the end, it's the unit that drives the attitude. If you find yourself in one that's not your cup o' tea, find another.

 

[Hunter_aka_Scotty]

Nothing unique about it. It's very common where I live in the Puget Sound area. I've talked with plenty of people in other groups in the area and it's happened to many of them as well. Must be a regional thing.
NEVER from WW2 re-enactors, though.

That would still make it unique to your area and the situation.

 

[p51]

That would still make it unique to your area and the situation.

Not really at all. Go on to almost any forum devoted to WW2 re-enacting and you'll find others who have had this happen to them as well, that is, people who've served in real life lording it over those who haven't (all in modern timesframes) within the hobby. Its actually pretty common in WW2 re-enacting all over the place. THAT I've seen all over the country at various events over the years.
If that's never happened to you or you've seen it happen, then YOUR situation is unique. Lots of bandwidth on re-enactor forums are filled with exactly that.
Been in WW2 re-enacting since 1989. I couldn't possibly count the number of times I've seen it happen, from one coast to the other and everywhere in between.

 

[Hunter_aka_Scotty]

Yes. Really. I am not new to this hobby having done it now for 17 years. Forums are nothing new to me either. YOUR situation is unique.

 

[kiwilrdg]

There are always guys that are great and guys that you would rather not be around. That is true of both the public and the reenactors.

Some of the problems can be eased over through the way it is handled, some can be ignored, and some just needs to be avoided.

Every situation is unique.