All You Need to Know About Hat Etiquette

[John in Covina]

To take this to next step ...Has anyone had to remind anotheperson to remove 'their' hat.

*********
Almost every time I have been to the Baseball Games, the number of people that don't remove their hats during the National Anthem continues to grow.

 

[ideaguy]

I have, on occasion, taken people's hats off their heads and handed it to them-all very quickly. And then not so nicely reminded them that their hat was in the way of me looking at the flag. Works every time, no matter where the flag is.

 

[Mindraker]

I have, on occasion, taken people's hats off their heads and handed it to them-all very quickly. And then not so nicely reminded them that their hat was in the way of me looking at the flag. Works every time, no matter where the flag is.

That just might be crossing the line. Remember the saying "your right to swing your fist ends at my nose". You can politely whisper to another person to take off his/her hat, but a stunt like that could get you a nice punch in the nose.

 

[ideaguy]

When I said that I had, on occasion, removed hats for people, I should have included the time frame- back when my temperment didn't match my common sense, and action=reaction was not an understood concept.
I tend to follow Douglas' credo on hat etiquette; came about it through
remembering what I was taught, and how I would like to be treated as well;
that said, I find myself in fine company.

 

[Topper]

fine company... fine company... just fine ?.... Resplendent Company my dear Chap.

 

[Tango Yankee]

Since you made reference to the military a couple of clarifications

• A gentleman will remove his hat for the national anthem, the passing of the flag and funeral processions unless they are in the military or clergy and on duty. Ladies likewise should remove any non-formal hat.
  
  If you're in uniform, the hat stays on regardless of whether or not you are "on duty." The proper response for a flag passing is to come to attention and render a salute. Passing funerals are not (as I recall) addressed but I imagine that coming to attention while the procession passes would be appropriate.
  
  
• A gentleman will remove his hat in the presence of a lady out of courtesy and respect.
• A gentleman should remove his hat when entering a normal building or reaching their destinations.
  
  When outside the hat stays on. A military member removes their hat (AKA cover in the Marines, I believe) when entering a building unless they are under arms and on duty. This last generally applies to Security Police or Military Police.
  
  
• A gentleman will remove (unless they are in the military or clergy and on duty) his hat when entering a church, where as a lady may keep her hat on, provided it is a formal one.
  
  Same as above. Indoors, the hat comes off unless bearing arms.
  
  
• A gentleman in the 19th centaury would always doff his hat to another gentleman of higher social status, or older age. This practice declined at the beginning of the 20th century, and by the end of WWII was very rare. Doffing if now the preserve for either meeting a personal acquaintance, of when members of the Royal family pass by.
  
  In the military this translates to the salute and is still in practice.
  

Pip-Pip
Doug

Of course, military members already know the proper military etiquette regarding their hats. Unfortunately, the military does not teach the proper civilian etiquette for when one is wearing civilian clothes. The exception is to doff ones hat or cap and hold it over your heart during the playing of the national anthem or when a flag is passing by. Even so I've had to correct a few young troops in my day when they've failed to remove thier caps during Retreat.

Cheers,
Tom
SMSgt, USAF, Ret

 

[BigSleep]

I wore a hat with my suit to church this weekend. As I was entering the church I took the hat off. A young lady that was greeting people at the door complimented me and said it looked so good that I should keep it on in the sanctuary. I told her "Na only ladies can keep their hats on in church." She was young and said she didnt know that.

Heck most people dont know that.

 

[Mindraker]

Even so I've had to correct a few young troops in my day when they've failed to remove thier caps during Retreat.

Cheers,
Tom
SMSgt, USAF, Ret

That's a whole other ball of wax -- you're their superior in the military, and have a place to enforce a certain dress code and respect for the military both on and off duty. It is not the place for one civilian to knock off the hat of another civilian.

 

[Feraud]

I think correcting someone else's appearance and etiquette has it's place with a major caveat in place!
We have to seriously keep in mind a sense of perspective when doing so.
Many people do not know the formal rules of hat etiquette. Heck, I would wager most of us did not know it until we read it here! That does not give anyone the right to berate or physically correct any one else.
The long gone tradition of seasonal destroying of straw hats, to the level where groups of thugs roamed the city enforcing their sense of etiquette was a blemish on the past. That behavior is just as bad today. One cannot not get anyone to appreciate the past by bludgeoning them with it.
Leading by example coupled with friendly and informative words work much better than a slap to the back of the head and harsh admonitions about respect or patriotism.

 

[Tango Yankee]

That's a whole other ball of wax -- you're their superior in the military, and have a place to enforce a certain dress code and respect for the military both on and off duty. It is not the place for one civilian to knock off the hat of another civilian.

True, and I did not mean to infer otherwise. Nor would I knock the hat off of a junior member-in both the civilian and military worlds that could be construed as assault. At the very least it is combative, and contrary to the very message of proper etiquette one is trying to convey. A word to correct is sufficient.

What I was trying to point out was that even though they were told in basic training the rules regarding hats and the national anthem they still did not follow proper etiquette and had to be reminded.

I think that proper etiquette is something that has to be ingrained through constant use (and if necessary, correction.) In todays too-informal world many children are not taught proper etiquette. Such teaching would involve reminders and corrections as they were growing up, making it a life-long habit. Sadly, this seems to be something many parents are leaving out of their child-rearing. As I said in another thread, I think it's because most parents these days were never taught proper etiquette themselves.

Cheers,
Tom

 

[Story]

*********
Almost every time I have been to the Baseball Games, the number of people that don't remove their hats during the National Anthem continues to grow.

Last few games I've been to, people wouldn't shut up let alone sing their National Anthem. But we don't need Citizenship classes in grade schools, do we?

PS: Watch the field cameras and the most players aren't singing either, but chewing gum or tobacco. Coaches ought to take that opportunity to run down the line and smack their faces like a picket fence routine.

 

[captcouv]

Hats at Church

Boudreaux lost his hat on Saturday night and it bothered him powerful. But he got up on Sunday and went to church. At church he noticed there were a lot of fine hats hanging on the wall and he decided that he'd leave church a little early and take him one of them hats... But then Father Tim began his sermon about the 10 Commandments and Boudreaux changed his mind about leaving church early.

On the way out of church, Boudreaux stopped to tell Father Tim, "Father, I lost my hat last night and when I came into church, I was determined to steal one of them fine hats hanging in the back, but your sermon helped me a lot and I realize I wouldn't steal no hat."

"Oh, Boudreaux," said Father Tim "that must have been when I spoke about the Commandment, "Though Shalt Not Steal.""

"Noooo, Father, that wasn't it. It was when you talked about "Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery!""

"Adultery!?!?! How did that that change your mind about stealing?" asked Father Tim.

"Well, it didn't change my mind about stealing - but it did remember me where I left my hat!"

Couv

 

[Topper]

Military etiquette varies over the world between countries and different services. When i refer to being "on duty", I use this in generic sence.

e.g. Troops when going to curch parade whilst they may be in service dress , are not on duty per-say. So are to remove their hats/caps when entering church for a service.Though if you are on Duty i.e. on guard at state funeral one keeps one service hat on even when in Chruch. ( exceptions do occur, e.g. when coffin bearers).

As to Flag Passing, and National Anthems.....then its entirely a "National" etiquette. Depends on What country you are from. Also if depends on the venue, e.g. if inside , then typically your hat will already be removed, or if outside then you hat will be on. As to whether you salute it or take of ones hat will also vary on the parade or event. e.g. For trooping colours / Parade "ranks" typically do not salute, merely the officer, likewise the command eyes/right/left is not obeyed by the end marker to keep the like. Where as at a Rememberance service old soldiers prefer to remove the civilian hat as pass by a memorial as a mark of respect where as those still wearing service berets even if retired 'may' keep them on, but other remove them.

Each suituation dictates which rule to follow soem situations there are various optios in paying respect, also difference of paying respect to your own flags and that of flags of other nations ( i,. not saluting other nations flags, but still at attention)

If you're in uniform, the hat stays on regardless of whether or not you are "on duty." The proper response for a flag passing is to come to attention and render a salute. Passing funerals are not (as I recall) addressed but I imagine that coming to attention while the procession passes would be appropriate.


Cheers,
Tom
SMSgt, USAF, Ret

 

[moustache]

Indeed!

*********
Almost every time I have been to the Baseball Games, the number of people that don't remove their hats during the National Anthem continues to grow.

There are many people who don't believe in the flag salute or the National Anthem as well. But religious or personal views aside,they should RESPECT the event by removing the hat. I agree with John that it is ever more common to see people not removing hats for almost any reason.I see baseball caps on heads at fine dining establishments quite often.Never a fedora though.Just always seems to be baseball caps.And some of the words and emblems on those hats!!!My,my would make your mother blush!!!
Amazing that we had digressed this far.This is where WE come in.
Get the word out regarding etiquette.But in a tactful way.
I wouldn't dare to touch another persons hat at anytime(unless a good friend,relative,etc).Just too many lawsuits waiting to happen there.Or,like has been brought out,a punch in the shnoz!Just not worth it.
People are now suing over hurt feelings.And winning!!!
What a crying shame!

JD

 

[Topper]

One doesnt have to have a military backgound, I would hypothesise that the change comes back to education of kids.

Even when I was growing up, I guess may people may have been in Scouting or Guides. Which taught the traditions and etiquette. Unfortunately even these old venerable instutions have been 'dummed down' in respect to their dress code. Thus hats/caps/berets not always worn anymore, so the concept of removal of when to remove hats is no longer taught.

The same with School Dress code - I had to wear a cap as a Lad in junior ( but not senior) school! and i'm by no means very old!

There are many people who don't believe in the flag salute or the National Anthem as well. But religious or personal views aside,they should RESPECT the event by removing the hat. I agree with John that it is ever more common to see people not removing hats for almost any reason.I see baseball caps on heads at fine dining establishments quite often.Never a fedora though.Just always seems to be baseball caps.And some of the words and emblems on those hats!!!My,my would make your mother blush!!!
Amazing that we had digressed this far.This is where WE come in.
Get the word out regarding etiquette.But in a tactful way.
I wouldn't dare to touch another persons hat at anytime(unless a good friend,relative,etc).Just too many lawsuits waiting to happen there.Or,like has been brought out,a punch in the shnoz!Just not worth it.
People are now suing over hurt feelings.And winning!!!
What a crying shame!

JD

 

[Tango Yankee]

A basic mistake

Military etiquette varies over the world between countries and different services. When i refer to being "on duty", I use this in generic sence.

Ah, I made a classic forum etiquette error--and replied from a "US-centric" position, failing to note your location and forgetting that this is indeed a world-wide forum.

Each nation's military does indeed have it's own traditions and variations of etiquette. My comments are accurate when strictly applied to the USAF in particular and in general to the other US Armed Forces.

Be that as it may, I think we're in agreement that the overall issue is the general lack of etiquette education and the lack of simple respect and courtesy.

In the US there seems to be a fear of appearing too formal or stuffy. It's a sad state of affairs when the individual who adheres to what used to be called common courtesy is now considered the odd one and there's a general attitude of "If I gotta wear a tie I ain't goin'."

Of course, for the past couple of decades I've been of the opinion that the majority of the world's problems are caused by a lack of common courtesy and respect for others.

Cheers,
Tom

 

[Topper]

No worries Tom. Even in over here traditions vary within the military branches! ( and also changes with time)

Note that it is not traditions that in question, as as we see they all can vary, but moreso the courtsey and respect that forms up etiquette and correct protocol. One can still have many traditions all happening at the same event, all of which pay respect.

fftopic: I agree that globally we are facing a lock of traditional education, which polished off kids education. This liberal 'slackness' a couldn't give a damn attitude. Mandating the use of schools uniforms and hats may sound trivial, but assist in solving many social-respect issues! Though nowadays it seems that anyone who pormotes this is then hung-out-to dry and proclaimed to a stuffy / snobby/ upper-class twit!

In actual fact the old ways worked for decades - purely because "they worked!" e.g. Black-tie. Every one should wear balck tie to an event when so invited, as it puts everyone going on a 'level' field so be you a Prince or pauper, you cant tell the diffference. It is the person inside that counts. A Gentleman dresses up to show respect to the other people who are attending, that he has taken the time to dress up to respect 'them'. Once does not dress up to balck-tie events - to be seen to be rich or different. ( Take note Hollywood stars and celebrities! )

Unfortuneately there is still many a person in the UK is still considers black-tie to be showing off, But this is due to their lack of education in the social graces. 'tis hard to convience them that the real reason for dressing up to pay respect to others! :eusa_doh: When i meet such people, who cant understand such basic dress clothing protocol, it make it even harder to explain the etqiuette for hat wearing!

I concetrate on hard shell hats, Toppers, Bowlers, Boaters, Pith, each one has it's different place in old English 'Soical Season' and other national events as to when they are worn. I guess many people think that the English national dress is the Beefeaters or the Morris Dancers !


The English National Dress is still: Morning Dress & Top Hat!

 

[John McGee]

Video showing hat gestures

Thank you all for the hat etiquette rules. It has been very illuminating.

Still, it would be great to see a movie demonstrating hat gestures.

Hat ninjas! Make an instructional video of yourself tipping your hat to classy dames, and otherwise conducting yourself with style. You guys could have so much fun with this. Put it on YouTube, or maybe thefedoralounge.com might be up for hosting it.

 

[Socrets]

Just a Thought

Would it possible to get this thread stickied? I think it'd be nice to have this thread in an easily found place instead of searching high and low through the forum.

 

[scotrace]

The bartenders have it stashed in a spot that's easy to find. It seems that this question crops up frequently, and when it does, we pull out this thread.

Sticking it is not a bad idea.