Interestingly, the guys on the extreme left and right seem to be wearing only battle-dress jackets. Maybe those guys are the pilot and co-pilot, and sat in the cockpit with some heating?
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ALL ORIGINAL Irvin RAF type Jackets - Loving that Wolf in sheeps' clothing!
- Thread starter PADDY
- Start date
Interestingly, the guys on the extreme left and right seem to be wearing only battle-dress jackets. Maybe those guys are the pilot and co-pilot, and sat in the cockpit with some heating?
Edward
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There was one repro that appeared on TFL a few years ago, if my memory is accurate. I don't think itg was working, though, just a cosmetic repro. Only one I've ever seen. I presume there just isn'tg the interest in them. Can't imagine a working repro selling well post electric blankets falling out of favour over safety fears (and that's assuming they would even be allowed to sell it, given modern health and safety standards).
Just my speculation, but.... presumably anyone who needed a reasonable freedom of movement in the plane, rather than being sat in the chair for much of the run couldn't be wired up like that. Possibly it was thought only necessary for those in the most extremely cold positions, like the rear gunner, sat in a glass bowl? They had plenty else to worry about, being such an obvious target, without being cold too!
That's a shame, I kind of like the idea of a repro.
Have you ever read Len Deighton's 'Bomber'?
It's a great book about a Lancaster crew on one mission. If you aren't inclined to read it, the BBC did it as a radio play. You can listen to the whole thing on youtube. It's great. But the relevant point is that the rear gunner removes his plexiglass from the center of his gun turret, so that he can look out for night-fighters more easily. If that was common practice, rear gunners must have been freezing!
aswatland
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I agree with this. Gunners in exposed positions tended to wear heated Irvins, but this was not always the case judging by surviving photos. It is very rare to see the entire crew kitted out in wired Irvins.
alsendk
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Mr. Simon Swaffield seem to have found a very old prototype mix between a B3, and an Irvin.
He finds a lot of exiting Irvin jackets these days, - up for sale at a moderate price from his homepage.
Here is, what he writes about it himself:
" And so to the jacket. Irvin(g) in all it’s corporate forms was a very patent-aware concern, and there are many that still remain in the company’s name. But not for this jacket, not even an application. The jacket dates from 1930, the zips confirm this. Notably, there are bellows underarm panels that never found their way through to the B3 or any other US equivalent. You will also note the eyelets on the reverse of the collar for the attachment of an elastic collar strap, a feature that would find it’s way through to the later irvin jackets. The zips are all original, work well and retain their original stitching.
There is one repair to the front of the right hand chest panel and four smaller patches at the base of the right arm.
Research is on-going at the Library of Congress and the listing will be up dated as soon as there are any developments. In the meantime, one point that has emerged ( I have been in contact with the town historian for Buffalo) is that although the jacket is labelled as having been made in the Buffalo Irving factory, there is no record of leather flying jackets ever having been made there. "
https://wwiijackets.co.uk/shop/the-earliest-known-irvin/
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aswatland
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I know a little of this history of this jacket before it was owned by Simon Swaffield. Firstly it is not a prototype for the RAF Irvin jacket. It was produced in the USA around 1933-4 when the spec for the B-3 was being developed. Remember Leslie Irvin had already invented the B-1 and B-2 jackets. The first Irvin jackets were made in the UK in 1932 and the map pocket was not included in the UK patent drawings. The side belts were never used on British Irvins, but of course feature on B-3s. I'm afraid Simon is wrong about this jacket which was designed as a successor to the earlier American B-1s and B-2s.
Otter
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Andrew,
Were the wired Irvin jackets in series or parallel? I have just read the pdf about human factors in the 8 th Air force and the problems with the early heated blue suits.
Were the wired Irvin jackets in series or parallel? I have just read the pdf about human factors in the 8 th Air force and the problems with the early heated blue suits.
aswatland
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The wired jacket came later. The earliest contract was awarded to Irvin Air Chute in 1937 and this coincides with the introduction of three monoplane bombers, the Whitley in 1937, the Wellington and the Hampden in 1938.
alsendk
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I have been running through my wired irvin with a buzzer, and it is obviously wired in parallel, and to my knowledge powered by 24 V DC
Otter
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Thanks! The stated reason for so many cold casualties from failure of the blue suits was that the early versions were wired in series. So if one wire flexed and broke, then the whole suit failed.
aswatland
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Oops! Yes wired in parallel. I was thinking of the when they were both introduced!
Be careful there! Early WWII British aircraft, including early Spitfires and Wellington, were 12V. 24V was phased in later. Not sure on the heavy bombers!
Otter
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Andrew, have we not seen that prototype jacket somewhere before? I had the feeling it went through your hands a couple of years back.
aswatland
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I used to own a 1933 near mint Irvin without the elastic collar strap, but sold it after recording all the details. It should be in a museum! Here is a reminder of it.
aswatland
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Notice the original cutter's tags.
The label is machine sewn in rather than tacked in by hand.
The label is machine sewn in rather than tacked in by hand.
Luftwaffe-Jacket-Wanted
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Wow!
Great jacket! would eat my hands off, if I would have let it go.
Splendid!
Great jacket! would eat my hands off, if I would have let it go.
Splendid!
aswatland
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I did let it go and still have my hands! Seriously it was a unique jacket and apart from the photo session I did not wear it. Sections of the sheepskin were very thick and despite repeated conditioning remained stiff.
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Wow...Just...wow!!!
alsendk
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A very relaxed field marshal Montgomery, sporting RAF gear, boots and Irvin.
The top brass seemed to have been able to get away with anything. Two badges in the beret, Smith&Wesson pistols, B3. aso.
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alsendk
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A sales add for a strange looking Jacket. What say you? fake, or original Irvin
"Original WW2 Irvin sheep skin flying jacket
Very rare sort after early two back panel darker wool type WW2 Irvin pattern sheep skin fleece lined flying jacket.
It has the maker’s label which says Winter Flying Suit Type A-1, Mfg. By Irvin Air Chute Co, Buffalo, N.Y.
It has all the original Talon zips belt and suspension loop to the collar.
It is a medium size 42.******
It has two holes on the lower right arm, one is approx 1” long the other ¼” long.
And a couple of very small repairs to the lower right arm and one at the lower left front.
Single leather map pocket to the bottom right of the jacket.
It is an original 2 panel jacket that is very collectable and is in very good condition.
If you appreciate WW2 flying jackets then this is the one to have.
As used by the Spitfire and Lancaster bomber crews of WW2.
One of the nicest ones I have seen, you can’t beat original wear on a WW2 flying jacket"
"Original WW2 Irvin sheep skin flying jacket
Very rare sort after early two back panel darker wool type WW2 Irvin pattern sheep skin fleece lined flying jacket.
It has the maker’s label which says Winter Flying Suit Type A-1, Mfg. By Irvin Air Chute Co, Buffalo, N.Y.
It has all the original Talon zips belt and suspension loop to the collar.
It is a medium size 42.******
It has two holes on the lower right arm, one is approx 1” long the other ¼” long.
And a couple of very small repairs to the lower right arm and one at the lower left front.
Single leather map pocket to the bottom right of the jacket.
It is an original 2 panel jacket that is very collectable and is in very good condition.
If you appreciate WW2 flying jackets then this is the one to have.
As used by the Spitfire and Lancaster bomber crews of WW2.
One of the nicest ones I have seen, you can’t beat original wear on a WW2 flying jacket"
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