Alexander Leathers Simmons and Aero Aeromarine Discussion

[cordwangler]

Heh.... Yeah.... A2s, selvedge jeans.... but surely you have to draw the line somewhere? I mean.... donkey jackets??? Funny old world.

I guess this is your repro workwear line in the sand! Personally, I think everything's fair game, especially if durability of fabric, solid construction, etc., is the aim of the repro in a general market for clothing where the opposites mostly apply. Personally, I don't care for non-natural fibres at all, so wouldn't buy a repro - for authenticity's sake - of something in nylon, but that's just me.

But just imagine how exotic it must look to people not used to seeing them on dustmen in the 1970s.

Actually, anything in wool/leather seems pretty exotic when you think about the current hi-viz Noddy suits manual labourers are forced to wear.

 

[majormajor]

Heh.... Yeah.... A2s, selvedge jeans.... but surely you have to draw the line somewhere? I mean.... donkey jackets??? Funny old world.

Hi Edward

I noticed that Levi Vintage have done a Donkey Jacket too. I can only imagine that in none UK markets, the thing has different connotations. Very odd to UK eyes, though...

 

[Capesofwrath]

I seem to remember that they used to be worn a lot by students and such like in the sixties. They sort of took over from the duffle coat. They had leather shoulders and were available quite cheaply in places like Millets. Very warm and comfortable they were too. Maybe Blair's was one he had knocking about from his student days a little later?

Talking of lost leaders Michael Foot got a lot of stick for wearing what the Daily Liar called one at the remembrance day ceremony in the early eighties. Though it was just a sort of dark green wool car coat really.

 

[Edward]

I guess this is your repro workwear line in the sand! Personally, I think everything's fair game, especially if durability of fabric, solid construction, etc., is the aim of the repro in a general market for clothing where the opposites mostly apply. Personally, I don't care for non-natural fibres at all, so wouldn't buy a repro - for authenticity's sake - of something in nylon, but that's just me.

But just imagine how exotic it must look to people not used to seeing them on dustmen in the 1970s.

Actually, anything in wool/leather seems pretty exotic when you think about the current hi-viz Noddy suits manual labourers are forced to wear.

Ha, well... it's certainly a lot better than the contemporary equivalents, that's true. Maybe it is simply that I remember seeing them in that place and that only.... I suppose it's not unlike what my dad was like when I turned fourteen and only wore clothes from places other than the local army surplus under sufferance. To his generation, they were "clothes for people who couldn't afford anything else"... To me, a Donkey Jacket is a workwear product designed for a specific task... I suppose I can get people wanting the style (with Eighties revivals having been around now longer than the Eighties were, it was only a matter of time before Orgreave Chic hit...

Hi Edward

I noticed that Levi Vintage have done a Donkey Jacket too. I can only imagine that in none UK markets, the thing has different connotations. Very odd to UK eyes, though...

Yeah, it's the price I don't get. Then I'm the same with L2s... I would love a good L2A repro, but I'm damned if I'm paying out four hundred quid for a nylon windbreaker!

 

[Boyo]

"A final word
I can add here that as a leather jacket fetishist I was, inevitably, impressed with what I saw at the aero factory too - and if anyone wants to hear about that part of my trip, then fine. It just seems like that side of the story is already very well covered - but if there's an audience for them I am of course happy to share my thoughts and impressions of the latest models. Or about anything else you might wanna ask. And even if there isn't, I'll probably spill anyway!"


Schitzo, I for one would like to hear about your trip to Aero.. You failed to let us know you we're making the trip. Was the travel the hassle you suspected it might be?

 

[Jeff M]

The basic idea of this jacket isn't exactly new, even as a modern repro. LVC have been doing their Menlo for a few years now. The Japanese makers - eg Bootleggers' Reunion - have been exploring early 20th Century designs for, again, a few years. When Himel brought out the Heron, wasn't it partly in response to Japanese innovations (can you have innovation in replicating old things? ) and a desire to break out of the usual HB/A2 rut of Euro/US repros? We're just looking at a trend. If Goodwear turn out to be working on a Simmons Bilt or a Menlo, are we going to accuse them of ripping off Aero? .....

If GW's entire line was a copy of Aero's...yes.
The examples you give are of makers reaching back to resurrect old styles from a variety of makers. Not basing their entire line on the designs of a current maker.
I don't know a thing about AL's quality. But...I do recognize another makers basic designs behind all of their products.
I'm not into fashion that much. I don't follow the Paris fashion shows..don't keep up with Vogue magazine...the latest designer gossip...but I do know that when somebody leaves one design house to start up their own they try to find their own "voice".

 

[Jeff M]

I know that the Pope once set Leonardo and Michelangelo to work on the entrance to a church, they painted one side each, as he knew they would do their best work together.

The Battle of Anghiari for the Salone dei Cinquecento (Hall of Five Hundred) in the Palazzo Vecchio in Florence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Battle_of_Anghiari_(painting)

Neither finished his wall.

 

[Otter]

Damn straight! They got into a flame war and never got finished, the records are still sealed in the Vatican Archives!!

 

[pipvh]

Saw the LVC donkey jacket in the London shop. I let out a sort of involuntary bark of mirth/shock when I saw the price because yes, I remember bin men and coal men wearing them, and miners (when there were mines), and I used to wear them myself when you could buy them used for 50p. I can't help thinking that donkey jackets for £400 might be part of what Cameron meant yesterday when he said that we are all Thatcherites now.

 

[DiamondDave]

Just getting back to the core of this thread... I must say as a machinist myself, the true shawl collar is very tough to make. Especially on a jacket that has buttons... very tough to make sure that the collar is completely straight and appropriately centered, when you are making a jacket that "crosses over" at the front, such as a button jacket. The "Peter Pan" collar is a far simpler "inset" idea and the execution easier by far. Just my 2c worth.

DD

 

[Sloan1874]

Just getting back to the core of this thread... I must say as a machinist myself, the true shawl collar is very tough to make. Especially on a jacket that has buttons... very tough to make sure that the collar is completely straight and appropriately centered, when you are making a jacket that "crosses over" at the front, such as a button jacket. The "Peter Pan" collar is a far simpler "inset" idea and the execution easier by far. Just my 2c worth.

DD

Bingo!

 

[hpalapdog]

Hi Edward

I noticed that Levi Vintage have done a Donkey Jacket too. I can only imagine that in none UK markets, the thing has different connotations. Very odd to UK eyes, though...

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=d...OsLA0QWzzoHYAg&ved=0CF0QsAQ&biw=1857&bih=1018

DDL, 3 x Oscar winner wearing later Hi-vis donkey in ' My Beautiful Laundrette'

 

[pipvh]

I don't know a thing about AL's quality. But...I do recognize another makers basic designs behind all of their products.
I'm not into fashion that much. I don't follow the Paris fashion shows..don't keep up with Vogue magazine...the latest designer gossip...but I do know that when somebody leaves one design house to start up their own they try to find their own "voice".

My point is that what you recognize are things from the extremely limited pool of vintage leather jacket designs. There are no innovators here - how could there be? The "voice" is always going to be borrowed from some other designer in quite another time and place. There's no point in debating originality. The important thing is quality, execution, and how convincing the product is. Personally and purely subjectively, I prefer Aero based on the little I've seen so far of AL and the new Aero models. My next jacket will be an Aero, I expect, because they have the closest thing to what I've been looking for in a reproduction vintage leather jacket, but the last thing I'm looking for is originality...

 

[cordwangler]

the last thing I'm looking for is originality

Very nicely put. No one buys a repro for its originality.

The interest for many, when the first wave of elation at finding a certain style re-done has passed, is in seeing ongoing technical innovations in recovering lapsed, 'lost' or forgotten techniques, materials, etc. Thinking about it, there is a certain originality in seeking to reproduce authentic detailing and style, and customers of the most innovative makers -- we've all got our own ideas about who these (would make a good but nerve-wracking thread, that, IMO) -- help to push this further out into the realm of the possible.

Way off-topic, me. Again.

 

[repo]

Saw the LVC donkey jacket in the London shop. I let out a sort of involuntary bark of mirth/shock when I saw the price because yes, I remember bin men and coal men wearing them, and miners (when there were mines), and I used to wear them myself when you could buy them used for 50p. I can't help thinking that donkey jackets for £400 might be part of what Cameron meant yesterday when he said that we are all Thatcherites now.

I wore a really nice all wool donkey jacket in the 80's - my Dad bought it from the shipyard he worked in and cost more like £40 at the time. I think it was seeing Dexys Midnight Runners playing Geno that made me want one!

 

[hpalapdog]

I seem to remember that they used to be worn a lot by students and such like in the sixties. They sort of took over from the duffle coat. They had leather shoulders and were available quite cheaply in places like Millets. Very warm and comfortable they were too. Maybe Blair's was one he had knocking about from his student days a little later?

Talking of lost leaders Michael Foot got a lot of stick for wearing what the Daily Liar called one at the remembrance day ceremony in the early eighties. Though it was just a sort of dark green wool car coat really.

I don't think Blair wore it when he was PM. The footage I saw was earlier when he was party leader. It was definitely his own jacket.

The AL one is an absolute bargain price-wise compared to some. Check this Burberry out !

http://shopping.aol.com/burberry-wool-felt-donkey-jacket/s398925776

 

[repo]

I don't think Blair wore it when he was PM. The footage I saw was earlier when he was party leader. It was definitely his own jacket.

The AL one is an absolute bargain price-wise compared to some. Check this Burberry out !

http://shopping.aol.com/burberry-wool-felt-donkey-jacket/s398925776

Not quite the look I was going for!

 

[rocketeer]

Donkey Jackets.

I think our Army Navy surplus has a few left, as perviously mentioned these have been superseded by HiVis clothing now. It's a good thing on the railway, trains are silent killers if you are looking the wrong way, better to be seen than. Guess you could say better to be seen than to look dead cool! Or should that be to look cool, dead!
Seriously work wear will always creep in to mainstream fashion somewhere along the line. Look at Doctor Marten boots, originally orthapedic footwear, now you can buy them with flower print! 'Combat' trousers are another example you can get them in any colour you want and for bikers too.
I may even have an old 1980s Dokey at the back of the garage, may have had a nest of mice in it sometime but free to anyone if they want it(Hi vis version).
J

 

[Plumbline]

as a student in the 80's

the "Donkey Jacket" was VERY common attire .... if you were poor you had one with orange PVC and "BCB" on the back ( it was cool during the miners strike) or GDC. If you were a bit posher you has a tartan ( always Royal Stuart ) lined one ..... I NEVER had anything as luxurious as the AL one ... mine was from P&M Boutiques (Paddys Market) and was a £5 2nd hand .. I cut the PVC panels off.

Flip of Hollywood used to sell some versions as well

According to Wiki the traditional leather patched version originates from 1929.

(AERO did one in the early 00's almost identical )

I LOVE it ... but then there is some nostalgia attached

 

[Jeff M]

My point is that what you recognize are things from the extremely limited pool of vintage leather jacket designs. There are no innovators here - how could there be? The "voice" is always going to be borrowed from some other designer in quite another time and place. There's no point in debating originality. The important thing is quality, execution, and how convincing the product is. Personally and purely subjectively, I prefer Aero based on the little I've seen so far of AL and the new Aero models. My next jacket will be an Aero, I expect, because they have the closest thing to what I've been looking for in a reproduction vintage leather jacket, but the last thing I'm looking for is originality...

And my point is that when I look at Himmel, GW, Aero, Superior Flight Apparel I don't think "Jeez, every one of these jackets looks almost identical to one other makers line!"
It's not like AL took vintage designs and did their own take on them. They took Aero's interpretations of vintage designs and nudged them wee bits here and there. Kind of hard to deny, especially when so many of AL's folks used to work at Aero.
It just is what it is. Good or bad. In favor of or not. Pro Aero, pro AL or no dog in the fight. It jumps out at you when you look at AL's offerings if you also know what Aero produces.