Akubra Fed IV or Christy's Adventurer, whats better?

[Fedora]

the crowns tend to be lopsided. From talking to a past owner of one I've found that it's not the blocking that's is off, it's just that when they get wet they tend to shrink on one side of the crown. I've seen it in person... I'm thinking it has to do with how Christy's puts the hats on the blocks, maybe a mechanism putting it on from the side rather than actual people, perhaps stretching one side regularly versus the other.

Ok, the Christy is bascially a cheap HJ. I said basically, because, its the same felt, the same ribbon and the same sweatband leather.

Every HJ I ever got in, (around a hundred) has been lopsided on the bow side of the crown. Shrinkage. Prior to it getting to me. These hats are dry blocked instead of steam or wet blocked at the factory, is what I was told by HJ.

I got in two new christys last year for a reblock, and they were identical to the HJ except they were 5 1/2 open crown height, vs, the 5 3/4 of the HJ. And neither of the Christys were lop sided.

Regarding the felt of the HJ and Christy, it is different from Akubra, but it is also their cheapest felt made at this factory. They make higher grades is what I am saying. And this is their lowest grade. The porousity of the felt is the indicator. Loosely felted, instead of a tight felt. Akubra is a much tighter felt, which translates into more durability, over time and wear. The Christy is much easier to sew through, than an Akubra. The old needle test for quaility.

But, I like the looks of a non lopsided Christy, and I like the looks of the Akubras. Akubras can be refurbed many many times, but not so for the Christy. And strictly from a hatters point of view, this tells the true story of any felt, regardless of who makes it. How many times can you rebuild it?

So, if the pricing were the same on both hats, I would go with the Akubra. It is a much better made hat, and has higher quality materials used to make it. Especially the sweatband. The sweat leather used on the Christy is a joke, to a hatter. No one but them use it! Split cowhide, very stiff, with no flange on the sweatband at all. They don't even use a ferrule on the reed. I really wish they would correct this. We have our own sweats from them(sheepskin) flanged by them, so its not like they cant do it. The Christy is made the way it is, along with the HJ with final cost as the prime directive. It, at the end of the day, a cheaply made hat in both craftmanship and materials used. Ask any hatter who knows both the Akubras and the Christys.

Frankly, I am surprised at the fan club it has made. It has to be the price. And you get exactly what you pay for. It is not a hat for an afficionado, or even a serious hat wearer, IMO.

Now, if they are now using that heavier weight felt from the same factory, my opinion would change in regards to the felt. This heavier felt does not suffer from the weaknesses of the lighter weight felt they use. In fact, the extra weight is exactly what this sort of felt needs. The sweats still are bad though. But, they are trying to meet low price points. And do, and this will always sell hats. And create fans. I understand that.

I would love to see Christy, go with the better rabbit felt, use the other leathers available from this factory, and clean up their ribbon work. Pass on that extra cost, say 25 bucks, and I would join the Christy club. I do like the way the thicker felt works, but a tighter lightweight felt would be even better! It would still have the same feel to it, and would not be stiff, unless they messed up and added too much shellac. Then, it might be on the same level in quality as the Akubras.

And if they read this, or one of you fans tell em this stuff, it would just improve the hats from them. Because the factory they use is capable of making a great hat. Compare the craftmanship on a Henry to a Chisty. Then understand both of these hats are made in the same place. We just get their deluxe treatment is all. Our bows are perfect, to the Indy bow.(Raiders) Our sweats are sheepskin and flanged(flared) and we have a very clean bow. But the price difference is large. Mostly because we have Portugal felt shipped in to them to use for our line. But only because we wanted some beaver content in the felt, for the "feel".

 

[avedwards]

Steve, since you know how Christys makes their hats, I wonder if you know anything about the Susquehana Hat Co. My information a few pages earlier on this thread about Christys being blocked in England appears to be wrong, so I wonder what the case is with Susquehana. My hat from them is a very nice thin but to my eyes dense felt (so far it's never soaked through). The sweat band was one of those which feel like plastic so I replaced it with a cotton one which I'm very happy with.

I just wondered if you know anything about the company and where their hats are made, and why they appear to be better than Christys.

 

[Fedora]

I just wondered if you know anything about the company and where their hats are made, and why they appear to be better than Christys.

No sir, I have no knowledge of them. The only reason I know as much as I do about the Christy/HJ is because I was in contact with HJ a couple years ago, and was considering buying those wholesale to reblock and remake the bows for the guys who loved the HJ name, due to its relationship to the first 3 Indy fedoras. Magnoli ended up doing this, and I do the work for him these days.

Then, I learned of the Spanish factory that makes both brands, including our own factory hat. But, this same factory makes alot of different brands, including high end hats, sold in Europe. But, I am not sure who those brands of hats are for. Apparently this is a small factory as far as factories go. They can make only 24,000 hats per year, and are very old, yet still in business. And going by what they make for us, they are capable of making great hats, if requested, like we did. In fact, from what I was told, they love making the good hats, as they don't have much call for that sort of hat these days. Most want the cheapest they can make, for resell. Understandable, especially in these hard times. Fedora

 

[Tone]

So which hat is a good alternate to match the nature of this hat for around $100? Anyone have a pic of something else to compare to this Christys?

Not tilted back to cover the tall crown, or standing all straight on a table, etc.

Just something being worn like the Christys in the image above. Is there a hat for less out there that does this? That'd be great! Let us know so we can get the word out.

 

[Fedora]

Just something being worn like the Christys in the image above. Is there a hat for less out there that does this? That'd be great! Let us know so we can get the word out.

Do what I do. Shop ebay for a real deal vintage hat. No shrinkage, no taper when they get wet, and the craftmanship is top notch. And you should be able to find one in the Christy price range. Might take some regular looking though, as its been awhile since I bought vintage hats from ebay. But, I bought a load of them a few years ago. I guess that is why I don't understand the appeal of the Christy. Because for the same money and patience, you could own a REAL hat. But remember, I am a huge hat snob. Hat snobbery defines me. But do understand, everyone isn't like me, so....

 

[Tone]

Yeah, different needs out of a hat, perhaps?

Sometimes the over-focus on durability of felt isn't always the goal for wanting, or being able to get, a certain look out of a hat.

Be great to hear another brand in this price range, though.
So it's the Christys or Vintage hats then for $100 or under. Okay.

 

[theinterchange]

Sometimes the over-focus on durability of felt isn't always the goal for wanting, or being able to get, a certain look out of a hat.

Not everyone owns/wears hats that are in situations where durability is an issue. Say for instance, John Doe wears a hat for church on Sunday, he doesn't need a hat that could stop a bullet. He would most likely never wear it out, even if it were a poorer quality hat... at least in my mind.

Randy

 

[Fedora]

Sometimes the over-focus on durability of felt isn't always the goal for wanting, or being able to get, a certain look out of a hat.

Not everyone owns/wears hats that are in situations where durability is an issue. Say for instance, John Doe wears a hat for church on Sunday, he doesn't need a hat that could stop a bullet. He would most likely never wear it out, even if it were a poorer quality hat... at least in my mind.

Yes, I do agree, and it is a fact. As I said, I am a hat snob. But, I am that way in everything that I own. So, no doubt there are two camps in regards to the quality issue in hats.

For me, I got spoiled real fast with my first purchase of a vintage hat from ebay. Up until that time, I had only bought new hats, around 6 grand worth! I bought in 3's most times, and tried out every new brand I could find. Then I got my very first vintage hat. And basically threw away, or gave away, my collection of modern hats. Until I finally made my own, using the highest quality felt I could buy. But being a retired custom cabinet maker figured into this desire for quality. I saw it in the vintage hats, but it was lacking in the new ones I bought and wore. So, I make my own hats with the vintage craftmanship in mind. And, I know it's a personal quirk, a flaw in me, but I simply detest low quality hats, or anything else for that matter. It's a Saturday night special deal with me and quality. I especially hate cheap knives, guns, down to hand steamers. Had to buy a steamer on ebay because the new Chinese made ones, would only last me a couple of months before they burned out.

Back in the days when every man seemingly wore a hat, the good hats were very expensive for the times. Hats were just expensive. It is still that way. Good high quality hats are costly, BUT, most will last you for the rest of your life, and if having an old friend is important, pay now, or pay later. A good high quality hat can be refurbed so many times, and still look new when ya get it back. These lower quality hats are in a word, disposable. But, it fits in with our disposable culture. So, no surprise to me at all. I just don't like a disposable 'anything" unless it is toiler paper or paper towels. lol

But, remember, I am an old guy. I am from the era that things you bought were supposed to last ya for a long, long time. So, it's my upbringing too. I still own a Case brand pocket knife I got as a Xmas gift when I was 12 years old. That knife contains a lot of memories, and every nick has it's own story to tell. What I was doing at the time, whom I was with, etc. Same with a Browning Sweet Sixteen. Made in Belgium. Par excellence. Got it new when I was 15.

So, a hat snob am I! And being that way should explain my ideas on hats. If it ain't the best money can buy, I don't want it. What I own and wear is a mirror of whom I am, and the same can be said of the rest of my "stuff". All of my stuff will outlast me, as was intended, when I bought it. I get alot of bang for my buck, even if the cost is rather high at the time. My years have shown me, it is cheaper in the long haul to get the best at the outset. 6 grand is a lot of money to spend on hats! I could have only spent less than 400 bucks and got the best at the time. I just did not know! lol

But I honestly don't diss the folks that buy cheap hats. It's your money, not mine. As long as you know what you are getting, it's good. But, if you think you are getting something on par with a great hat, then, it's not so good. It'll cost you a lot if you did as I did, searchin for the "hat". When I finally found it on ebay, I think I paid around 25 bucks for it!! But it was not long before the demand made the prices rise, expoentially. Partly thanks to this board! lol Hard to find a great 25 dollar vintage hat these days, unless you get lucky.

If you are a serious hat wearer, I doubt you even own a cheap hat. That has been my own experience, and of many that I know wear their hats on a daily basis. I never leave home without mine! Rain or shine. These cheaper hats to me, are for beginners, and as they learn to appreciate hats, their tastes will morph towards the good and great hats. If its just a passing fad, buy cheap and get ready to buy again in a couple years, if you wear it daily. Hard to refurb a Christy, I know, I have tried it many times. Before I gave up. When you end up with a brim in one hand, and the crown in another, it grabs the attention. Especally when you have to replace it!! On my dime. So, I don't refurb em, but the Akubras, no problem at all! In fact, they just look better because I pounce em finer than the original pounce. They are just better hats. Fedora

 

[Tone]

No worries.

I know there are some places that can handle reblocking a Christys - heck, even HJ's lighter felt - without too much fuss.

Thanks for the speculation, though.

About the Akubra Federation ... Any odds on the Akubra Squatter showing up more readily in brown anytime soon? Unmodded. Well, maybe a different ribbon?

 

[theinterchange]

I totally get where you're coming from Fedora.

The cheapest hat I own, or will very soon is an Akubra Squatter... at least in terms of felt fedoras.

It's amazing, you can think paying $30something for a hat is expensive. Then that price inches up 'till you're thinking, "You know, I'd willingly pay $250 for that hat... why not, it's gonna last me?"

I'm all for buying the best quality I can afford. Then most often, if I can't afford it, I'll save up.

Randy

 

[Tone]

Try try and try. But people still enjoy the Christys.

 

[jlee562]

I like my Christy's actually! The felt does have a nice feel, even if its durability is suspect.

Of course, I'm also on the Adventurebilt waiting list

 

[Fedora]

Thanks for the speculation, though.

No speculation sir. Facts. Have you ever tried to reblock one that has shrunk? Try it, before you say I am speculating. Post a Christy that has shrunk and tapered, and then reblocked. I gotta see it. To date, I have only seen the two that I did. But they were brand new when I reblocked them, and I was REAL careful, because past experience told me, the brims tear off way too easily, especially if the hat is being reblocked because it shrunk and tapered. I love it when a non hatter tells me HOW and WHAT can be done. lol But good for a chuckle this morning. I like jokes!

Now, it is not impossible to reblock one, but IF the hatter knows what he is reblocking, and has had experience in the past with these hats, I doubt he would take on the job. So, best to send one to a guy who has not worked with this felt prior. Then you get a new hat, when he tears off the brim! And he will do as I did, and refuse to do any more reblocks on Christys and HJs. I turn them down monthly. But, you can reblock a brand new one, prior to the felt tapering.

But, you never get the original crown height back.(on tapered hats and canidates for a reblock) You lose crown height, bout 1/2 an inch. My knowledge comes from working with hats, many different brands. Where does yours come from? So, it seems you are the one speculating here. But you knew that!


The Akubras on the other hand are tough hats. No problem in reblocking or refurbing those. They don't have the perforated line around the brim break created by sewing in the sweat like the HJ or Christy does. And by the way, the Christy and the HJ use the same felt, the only difference is, the HJ is a taller hat, which stretches the felt thinner than the Christy. Both made from the same body. Stretch a Christy to 5 3/4 crown height and the felt thins down. But, your not a hatter, so you would not know. But I do.

Look guys, I am blunt and to the point, it's just my manner. But I pride myself with being honest about hats, even my own. I call a spade a spade, always have, and always will. I ain't got a dog in this hunt, because these cheap hats serve a totally different market than I serve. I could not in good conscience be in that market. I can't make and sell what I think is junk. I would feel like I was ripping someone off! Take any of these Christys to a real hatter, and ask him his opinion. You may not like what you hear. I would imagine most would see the hat as a toy hat. All custom hatters have a great deal of pride in their work. With standards they seek to achieve on each hat. The Christy meets none of these. In fact, the Christy would be a great example of "how not" to make a hat. And therein lies its real value. IMO. Every hatter I know, would feel the same way. In fact, those brands are the topic of many jokes. But ya gotta be a hat maker to appreciate them! The jokes that is.

HJs and Christy serve as a starter hat. And that is a good niche for them. But as you get older, and you start to appreciate hats more, the weaknesses of these hats will be seen, and you will move on to a well made, high quality hat. When ya do, give Art a call! He will show you what a real hat is supposed to be. And you will then question your own "earlier perceptions". Most of us do, in the learning curve. I did. Fedora

 

[Brent Hutto]

Other than not wanting to spend the money per se for my part the stumbling block to buying a $300-$400 hat is that, even if it were perfectly made and would last literally a lifetime, I'm a long way from being $300+ sure of exactly what hat I want. So as Fedora says, that may be an option that best serves someone who has owned and worn hats for years or decades.

Few things would be as frustrating as having an exiquistely made hat that cost as much as three Christy or similar "starter hats" and finding after a week or two that you absolutely hated the color or the proportions or the way it sits on your head. By comparison, if the $80 used Christy that Carldelo is sending me doesn't work out I'll pass it on to someone for $50 and the frustration level is insignificant. But of course it will not be a heirloom quality work of art no matter how well it suits me.

 

[gtdean48]

I have to say that paying $80 for a used Christys would not be my choice when for just a few more $$$ you can have a new Akubra. I have a large noggins at 24", 61cm, 7 5/8 LO & I have found deals under $75 for like new Akubras & even vintage Stetsons in my size. Now granted I do have some high $$$ vintage Stetson ORs, 25 & 100 but still not what I paid for my VS Custom. I have 4 custom mades, 2 Westerns, 2 Fedoras, 3 are 100% beaver. Given what I paid for them & the quality of the felt & craftsmanship, I feel they are more than fairly priced & will long out live me, just as some of my vintages ones have carried on past their original owners. I do have a box of wool crushers that I "experimented" with but always returned to a vintage beater as my foul weather/work hat.
I appreciate Fedora's posting because he has pushed hats of all types to limits that I never will with my stretcher, steam kettle & 2 hands. Some hats don't have to live an endurance life but quality always comes thru on how the hat fits & feels in your hand. To paraphrase an old commercial, you can feel it when you wear it!

 

[Tone]

I could not in good conscience be in that market. I can't make and sell what I think is junk.

Imagine reblocking one and selling it back to the public for $300 knowing the felt is still the same stuff!

That $100 price tag on the Christys makes it easy to check out for those curious about what the HJ's might be like. Yeah, nobody - in good conscience - should be trying to push this felt above $100. Especially with claims of improving it when they know what happens to the felt, etc.

I had an Adventurebilt - and still find the Christys to have a very unique nature to it that few hats do. (Don't get me wrong. Wore the AB for a while and it looked great on me. Just didn't wear the same is all.)

It's still a great option to be able to customize one and get the specs right.
I don't know that I'd order one in the Federation IV specs, though.

Speaking of how a hat looks on versus one needing felt to help define themself ...

Has anyone ordered a custom Adventurebilt in the Fed IV specs?

 

[cybergentleman]

consider this

This site has floated around the lounge before, I think. but it is probably fitting;

http://adventure-realm.com/raidersbash.html

go midway down and read that the site claims that the Christys adventurer is still the hands down winner for matching the Raiders fedora fit correctly

The photo comparison is convincing.

for those of you not interested in such a large hat well, then maybe this is not so useful.

 

[XPLSV]

Ebay Values

I picked up a deadstock Knox Twenty off ebay for $130, if I remember correctly. Dimensions are close to an Indy hat, even though it does have the Knox Custom Edge. It has fantastic felt. I put a Raiders bash into it and most of the general population would identify it as an Indiana Jones hat. I'm looking forward to a side by side comparison when my Adventurbilt arrives.

Bernie

 

[theinterchange]

Imagine reblocking one and selling it back to the public for $300 knowing the felt is still the same stuff!

:whistling

In my opinion, it still boils down to personal preference. Some folks love the Christy's Adventurer, some don't. Some are willing to pay $300 plus for a hat, others not, durability, and workmanship aside.

Randy

 

[kiltie]

... Post a Christy that has shrunk and tapered, and then reblocked. I gotta see it. To date, I have only seen the two that I did. But they were brand new when I reblocked them, and I was REAL careful, because past experience told me, the brims tear off way too easily, especially if the hat is being reblocked because it shrunk and tapered. I love it when a non hatter tells me HOW and WHAT can be done. lol But good for a chuckle this morning. I like jokes!

Now, it is not impossible to reblock one, but IF the hatter knows what he is reblocking, and has had experience in the past with these hats, I doubt he would take on the job. So, best to send one to a guy who has not worked with this felt prior. Then you get a new hat, when he tears off the brim! And he will do as I did, and refuse to do any more reblocks on Christys and HJs. I turn them down monthly. But, you can reblock a brand new one, prior to the felt tapering.

But, you never get the original crown height back.(on tapered hats and canidates for a reblock) You lose crown height, bout 1/2 an inch. My knowledge comes from working with hats, many different brands. Where does yours come from? So, it seems you are the one speculating here. But you knew that! ....

Fedora

Christys' Adventurer
Original block, fresh out of the box:

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/safdkiltie/IMG_0284.jpg

Creased, a la Indiana Jones:

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/safdkiltie/IMG_0305.jpg

After some regular, day to day wear:

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/safdkiltie/IMG_0312.jpg

After a good bit of wear ( Texas summer, a fair rain or two [ not soaked, by any means ], etc...):

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/safdkiltie/HPIM2397.jpg

Revived after a $15 reblock at the local hatter:

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/safdkiltie/HPIM2723.jpg

In a line-up ( Christys', Federation IV, Adventurebilt ):

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/safdkiltie/HPIM2727.jpg

After the last pic was taken, I went to abusing the Christys' again, using it as my "utility infield" hat ( digging for arrowheads, yardwork, etc...) and generally ill considered experiments ( stretching it over a coffee can wrapped in a towel, placing an iron directly to the felt at the highest setting, etc... ). It's still alive somewhere, though I gave it away a little while back.

I can say, if you opt for a Christys' Adventurer, go a size higher than normal. Pad it out. It will almost certainly come down half a size if you don't keep it on a hat jack or otherwise aggressively maintain it. The ribbon is pretty rotten...

A lot of the arguments over this hat are like extremes of a pendulum. However, the champions of both sides have good intentions, I believe. These hats can be reblocked. The do fill a niche. They are a decent entry level hat ( I likened them to the modern Stetsons somewhere on this forum, in terms of investment: payoff ratio ).
They are not the best hat money can buy. They will not survive much abuse and maintain the original blockshape, but they won't turn into a witch's hat either. The guts and ribbon are a little on the - ahem - rough side ( although my liner was NOT glued to the sweatband, as someone stated elsewhere [ ?!? ] ).

I'm going back into my hole, but just wanted to say: it's a decent hat. Adventurebilt is UNQUESTIONABLY a better hat, and the cost is relative. The Akubra is certainly a MUCH tougher hat, but it's a different hat. It really borders on an apples and oranges arguement.