Aero's mid-weight horsehide

[Glamdringer]

Hello,

I'm seeking advice on Aero's mid-weight HH leather.
I want to get a lighter leather jacket, and I was thinking of an Aero mid-weight Highwayman.

However, it seems more fragile, with the leather being thinner and also not waterproof, and I'm worried about how it will last in time. Are they as much of a "lifelong jacket" as the regular FQHH?

I'm especially woried about it not being waterproof.
I'm not going to wear it while raining, but sometimes it might happen.
Would that be a problem?

Also, if anyone has some pictures of their mid-weight jackets being worn, that would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Ace Rimmer]

My Highwayman is the regular FQHH but I have a Veste de Rallye on order that is mid-weight. I'm interested to see how others have done with their mid-weight jackets as well. Then again if you can wait until November or so (my last Aero order took 25 weeks) I can let you know how my Veste de Rallye turns out. lol

 

[galvestonokie]

mid-weight HH

i recently received a long half-belt in mid-weight hh (russet jerky horse, mismatched). don't have pix yet but it's stunning. i took the jacket on a recent trip to San Francisco-only wore it a little. too hot.

on the texas gulf coast, this is still a winter jacket, maybe 3-4 months of the year here. it's heavier than the goodwear A-2 i considered. i consider mine to be a lifelong jacket. not as cool or heavy as the FQHH, but for down south, it's a winter jacket.

i'll get some pix this weekend. bob

 

[JLStorm]

From the recent photos of a midweight HH jacket, the hide looks beautiful. Im not sure that it isnt waterproof. Aero states that horsehide is naturally waterproof, not that only FQHH is. My area of greater concern if this is a lifelong jacket would be that aero warranties their FQHH for life, but not the midweight.

However, I dont know to many people that really do keep jackets for life...

 

[Glamdringer]

Thanks galvestonokie, I'll be awaiting for the pics
I did not know you could get a long half belt in mid-weight HH

@JLStorm
Well the mid-weight HH is vegetable tanned, as opposed to the FQHH which is chrome tanned.
After doing a liitle research on the internet, I found this about vegetable tanned leather:
"Vegetable-tanned leather is not stable in water; it tends to discolor, and if left to soak and then dry it will shrink and become less supple and harder. In hot water, it will shrink drastically and partly gelatinize, becoming rigid and eventually brittle."

I asked Amanda about it and got the following reply:
"Vegetable tanned horsehide is not waterproof, therefore its not advisable to wear it in heavy prolonged rain showers
It shouldn’t be a problem in a shower for 10-15 minutes, its only really if you are wearing it in torrential rain for a long period of time or if its submerged under water"

Also I've put my mid-weight HH sample in water for a few minutes, and indeed it shrank in some areas.

 

[H.Johnson]

Sorry to interject here (I will no doubt be accused of trying to dominate the thread) but the method of tanning is only a part of what makes leather waterproof. What Amanda says is correct, but it's not 'the whole story'. The next process, by which the tannage is fatted or oiled, can improve the water resistance of any leather. So, a vegetable tanned leather can have its water resistance improved significantly by the finishing process. Mineral tanne dleather is usually more waterproof.

Reputable leather preparers will tell you (or the jacket manufacturer) whether their leather is (or isn't) waterproof. IMO jacket manufacturers don't always pass this information on, perhaps because potential customers neglect to ask the right question. I think it is good that you are asking. In my experience, the 'authentic' vegetable-tanned mid-weight leather used by Aero for most of its A-2s is only marginally waterproof. If you want a waterproof medium-weight horsehide jacket, you should specify this when ordering.

As Amanda says (and contrary to what you may read on-line) horsehide is not automatically waterproof.

Apologies if this offends anyone, by the way.

 

[Glamdringer]

Hi H.Johnson,

I don't see why your post would offend anyone
We can use all the information we can get

I'm still waiting for some pics if anybody has some...

 

[Southernwayfare]

Volpone recently posted pics of a mid-weight horsehide Highwayman...

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=41881

 

[Glamdringer]

I saw them, and those pictures are actually what got me thinking about getting a mid-weight Hwyman.

What I want to see though are pictures of it being worn, so I can get an idea about how it molds on the body or pictures of older jackets, so I can see how the mid-weight leather develops over time.

Thanks

 

[HoosierDaddy]

I think that we are confusing things a bit. No leather hide...that I know of is "waterproof". However...tight grained types(such as HH) are more inherently"water resistant' than others. Of course certain tanning techniques have alot to do with enhancing those abilities. A veg tanned HH(A2 weight)hide will soak through much quicker than Aero's Chrome tanned heavy FQHH for sure. From my experience of getting caught in heavy rain(without a rain suit),while motorcycling...chrome tanned HH seems the least absorbent and more water resistant than chrome tanned cow or other hides. Goat probably follows in second place. I've been soaked through wearing my chrome tanned steer MC jackets while riding a fairly long distance in heavy rain...but only partially at most with CT HH.
I think that this was also covered in another thread.
HD

 

[Glamdringer]

this is odd, Amanda says their FQHH is "100% waterproof"...

 

[H.Johnson]

It is possible that Amanda is exaggerating, but she may be justified to a certain extent. It's hard for civilian or motorcycle leather jackets (compared to sailing or mountaineering jackets) to be completely waterproof because of their design, irrespective of the leather. The collar, seams, yoke etc. just don't lend themselves to keeping out water as effectively.

There is, however, an industry standard test of 'waterproofness' (usually applied to textiles) that, when passed, allows a vendor to use the phrase 'waterproof'. Some years ago I did a qualification in leather technology at a local college and my project was to simulate that test using samples of leather. Horween's heavy horsehide (Aero's FQHH) passed easily, so as a material it can be called waterproof (but probably not '100%') Their medium weight HH (source unknown but as used in A-2s, etc.) failed.

In practice, my Aero FQHH motorcycle jackets have all eventually leaked in heavy rain through both the seams and the leather, so they are clearly not 'waterproof' in use.

I forgot to mention previously that the number of times leather is tanned also affects its water resisting qualities. Usually, retanning or hybrid (vegetable/mineral) tanning improves water resistance by making the leather structure more dense. Vegetable tanning is a very slow process and is difficult to control, so the range of water resistance of vegetable-tanned leathers will tend to vary widely.

 

[Creeping Past]

Technical details aside, the main thing to bear in mind is that if you're out in the wet for prolonged periods you're going to get wet, too, either from the outside or from the inside of your clothing -- and possibly both if you're a sweaty sort of person.

The technicalities will give you a rough idea of how long you might remain dry for, but your personal experience -- depending on how hot you get and variations in the construction of your outer garments, assuming the stuff they're made from is sound -- will lie somewhere between the cases stated by Hoosier Daddy and H Johnson.

My heavy FQHH Aero jacket has kept my top half completey dry in very heavy rain for short periods of no more than half an hour, and I've little doubt it would keep the rain off for longer. But something's got to give eventually.

 

[H.Johnson]

Sorry - although it's impossible to compare really accurately (rain is a natural process, as they say) it would have been more useful if we gave an estimate of how long my jackets resist the ingress of water in practice. IMO, Heavy HH - 30 minutes in heavy rain, medium HH - less than 10 minutes in comparable conditions. This is not motorcycling - just walking in the rain. On a bike you could reduce these figures (particularly for your frontal parts) depending on how fast you are riding.

In practice, my Aero FQHH motorcycle jackets have all eventually leaked in heavy rain through both the seams and the leather, so they are clearly not 'waterproof' in use.

 

[Fiver64]

FQHH

I was sort of curious about these claims as well. The pre-owned FQHH Highwayman I just got form Aero almost has a beeswax-feel to the leather. I was wondering if perhaps they post-treat the leather with some sort of natural waterproofing material like beeswax or mink oil. It definately doesn't feel anything like my FQHH A-2 from US Authentic.

 

[pjstrass]

Vegetable tanned HH a2

are there any observations on how a Goodwear A2 vegetable tanned HH holds up in the wet and ages compared to chomium tanned ?

 

[53Effie]

My mid-weight Highwayman is pretty substantial, as it weighs 5.8 lbs. I've never had it soaking wet; so I don't know how long it would take for water to get through it; although I am sure it would at some point. I've never had a totally waterproof leather jacket. It has been out for a few minutes in mild rain storms with no negative outcome. The water seems to bead up on it. I think there may be some variation in thickness of the mid-weight, since mine seems to be on the heavy side a bit.

Mike