Aero: Pinnacle vs. Tumbled CXL vs. Vicenza. Thoughts over time?

[Allin216]

I have Aero jackets in CXL HH and one in Pinnacle. I think that the Pinnacle leather is absolutely fantastic for what you describe. I'm a little bit of a leather nerd, and a big fan of most of Horween's products.

I'd say the Pinnacle more of a medium weight, whereas all of my CXL HH jackets are noticably heavier. It also has soft, buttery feel that drapes well, while still feeling substantial...even right out of the box the jacket will be comfortable. Yes it will also mold to you as you wear it more, and become even more comfortable. I would think these characteristics would be desirable for a lot of styles, particularly so with the slimmer fitting ones you mentioned as the Pinnacle is going to more easily fit closer to your body (especially initially).

Where Pinnancle is similar to CXL, is that it's going to patina with wear in a similar manner. They're both pull-up leathers, stuffed with waxes and oils too and are going to develop a ton of character with use. Comparatively, Vicenza will age in more subtle ways.

Comparing to tumbled CXL, the Pinnacle is still going to be the softer, drapier option...the tumbled will still be heavier hide, and feel closer to "broken in" CXL and will still be stiffer. You also may end up with more of a pebbled grain effect (at least initially) from the tumbling vs the tell-tale graininess of horsehide, which will be immediately apparent on the Pinnacle.

Take a listen to Nick Horween (of Horween Tannery that makes it and CXL) describing Pinnacle on his podcast. It's tricky to describe in words what makes it unique:

 

[jeepTj98]

I have Aero jackets in CXL HH and one in Pinnacle. I think that the Pinnacle leather is absolutely fantastic for what you describe. I'm a little bit of a leather nerd, and a big fan of most of Horween's products.

I'd say the Pinnacle more of a medium weight, whereas all of my CXL HH jackets are noticably heavier. It also has soft, buttery feel that drapes well, while still feeling substantial...even right out of the box the jacket will be comfortable. Yes it will also mold to you as you wear it more, and become even more comfortable. I would think these characteristics would be desirable for a lot of styles, particularly so with the slimmer fitting ones you mentioned as the Pinnacle is going to more easily fit closer to your body (especially initially).

Where Pinnancle is similar to CXL, is that it's going to patina with wear in a similar manner. They're both pull-up leathers, stuffed with waxes and oils too and are going to develop a ton of character with use. Comparatively, Vicenza will age in more subtle ways.

Comparing to tumbled CXL, the Pinnacle is still going to be the softer, drapier option...the tumbled will still be heavier hide, and feel closer to "broken in" CXL and will still be stiffer. You also may end up with more of a pebbled grain effect (at least initially) from the tumbling vs the tell-tale graininess of horsehide, which will be immediately apparent on the Pinnacle.

Take a listen to Nick Horween (of Horween Tannery that makes it and CXL) describing Pinnacle on his podcast. It's tricky to describe in words what makes it unique:

The pinnacle reminds me of the gustin l4 # 8 in burgundy Horween jacket I had. I sold it here on the forum so I posted tons of pictures of it. I only sold it because it was too big for me. However it fits their description perfectly..

 

[AlchemicalTheorist]

I have Aero jackets in CXL HH and one in Pinnacle. I think that the Pinnacle leather is absolutely fantastic for what you describe. I'm a little bit of a leather nerd, and a big fan of most of Horween's products.

I'd say the Pinnacle more of a medium weight, whereas all of my CXL HH jackets are noticably heavier. It also has soft, buttery feel that drapes well, while still feeling substantial...even right out of the box the jacket will be comfortable. Yes it will also mold to you as you wear it more, and become even more comfortable. I would think these characteristics would be desirable for a lot of styles, particularly so with the slimmer fitting ones you mentioned as the Pinnacle is going to more easily fit closer to your body (especially initially).

Where Pinnancle is similar to CXL, is that it's going to patina with wear in a similar manner. They're both pull-up leathers, stuffed with waxes and oils too and are going to develop a ton of character with use. Comparatively, Vicenza will age in more subtle ways.

Comparing to tumbled CXL, the Pinnacle is still going to be the softer, drapier option...the tumbled will still be heavier hide, and feel closer to "broken in" CXL and will still be stiffer. You also may end up with more of a pebbled grain effect (at least initially) from the tumbling vs the tell-tale graininess of horsehide, which will be immediately apparent on the Pinnacle.

Take a listen to Nick Horween (of Horween Tannery that makes it and CXL) describing Pinnacle on his podcast. It's tricky to describe in words what makes it unique:

Thanks so much! And what about the structure of the jacket if in pinnacle? My concern with a lighter, drapier hide is the risk that the jacket loses shape too much and looks a bit All Saints fashion leather circa 2010. I am leaning towards selecting tumbled but requesting they select lighter hides.

 

[Allin216]

Thanks so much! And what about the structure of the jacket if in pinnacle? My concern with a lighter, drapier hide is the risk that the jacket loses shape too much and looks a bit All Saints fashion leather circa 2010. I am leaning towards selecting tumbled but requesting they select lighter hides.

I only bought the jacket I have in Pinnacle a couple of months ago, but I don't expect it to really lose its structure. The leather is already supple out of the box, and there's no physical break in really where you're fighting the leather panels to move. I think the path to the jacket feeling like it's "yours" and being able to wear it comfortably is a lot shorter with Pinnacle, and that's the main reason I'd recommend it for a slimmer fit style where you really need it to move with your body more. I also think Aero does a good job building structure into their jackets with their patterns/design, stitching/seams, tensioning, etc regardless of the leather used.

I should also clarify that even though Pinnacle's a medium weight leather, it is still pretty substantial and tough (being a horsehide). While it's lighter than CXL FQHH/SH, I still wouldn't call it light weight by any means. Pinnacle is such a tricky material to describe in words without seeing and feeling it. It's not even close to the thinner, lighter sheepskin or lambskin or a thin cowhide that a lot of lower end fashion brands might use.

I wore my Long Half Belt (Pinnacle) and my 1930's Half Belt (CXL FQHH) today sort of as a comparison because of this thread. One other difference came to mind that I hadn't thought of, and that's a difference in the oils/waxes that the two are stuffed with: the CXL has uses more that are solid at room-temps and so is always going to be stiffer in cooler temperatures and even initially before it warms from your body heat.

I'm not sure where you're located, but you could probably get a sample of the leathers you're considering to feel them first hand and compare side by side. Possibly from Aero directly, Thurston Bros if you're in the USA, or if there's a retail partner in your country too. I know firsthand that Aero and Thurston are both very responsive and helpful with questions, and they've for sure handled more Aero coats than anyone!

All that said, you should still be confident you'll have an awesome leather jacket with either of the leathers you're considering!

 

[Edward]

I think I just like the idea of wearing a horse. Plus I am led to believe the denser hide may be slightly more water repellent (I live in wet Western Europe and would rather have something I know can withstand everything September to April can throw at it. For that reason I’m starting to move away from Vicenza as I think chrome tanning will be a better fit to me. Finally I like the idea of it being lighter than cow.

Why do you personally prefer the steer over horsehide in black?

I’m not tempted by Badalassi as I would rather a softer /easier first wear. Hence tumbled cxl or pinnacle.

Pinnacle I have yet to try. I've owned three CXLFQHH jackets, midweight steer, and goat from Aero, and tried on Vicenza at the factory. The new Vicenza felt for all the world to me just like the CXLFQHH does when well broken in (which never took more than a month of daily wear for me). The midweight steer is the same thickness as the FQHH, but softer right from the off, no break in needed. Comparable in my experience to the steer used by Schott in terms of weight.

CXL Steer I've never tried, but worth remembering.... back around fifteen years ago there was a bit of a hoo hah when Ken at Aero discovered Will Lauder, then managing the factory day to day, had been selling jackets made of CXL steer as FQHH (as memory serves, it was gonig though the books to sort that out that brought the whole other problem to light). It all got sorted out in the end, but the big thing here was that until this came out, one or two frankensteins aside that were made from a mix of hides, most people clearly didn't notice the difference. Some years later, Gary Eastman published research suggesting that many wartime A2s were actually made of cowhide rather than horse (as the original spec called for) or goat (as also became a norm when production was ramped up for wartime)... What I'm saying here is: by all means research your leathers and be aware of the difference... but don't over-obsess on the details, as the difference in reality isn't as big as it might seem in your head. This from experience.

Sticking to horse, I liked the Vicenza I handled, but for me it wasn't worth the upcharge that it carried in those days. I have found that the CXL FQHH softens quickly for what I like. It can go a little stiffer on a cold day, though generally by the time it gets cold enough to do that, I've reached instead for a heavy wool overcoat or a shearling. (My leather jackets I primarily wear in place of a blazer, rather than as an overcoat, so typically not something I'd have chunky knitwear on under.) I'd certainly not turn down Vicenza if it can as standard - something like an Indian Ranger if that was the jacket I wanted. If what you're after is a soft, light but still durable hide, look at goat. As flexible as lamb, without the fragility.

As ever, the best option is to go to the factory and try them in person. If that's not an option, then speak to Aero directly, they'll be very helpful. They know their product, in terms both of what hide will suit your needs, and what jacket is best suited to each hide (not every hide is necessarily ideal for every design).

Don't forget too that tanning can be as significant to feel of a jacket as the hide itself, particularly when you're dealing with the heavier or thicker leathers in my experience.

None of the Aero hides are going to give you trouble with water except Vicenza. The most water repellant would probably be goat.

Vicenza, veg tan, isn't it?

In rain, the best ting ever I had was a (probably French), knee-length barnstormer style, which I think was some sort of chrome tanned goat. Moleskin lined, too - made a great overcoat for wet Winter nights. Used to be a great indicator of age of other people. If they were under 40, they shouted "Matrix!" at me, if over 40 I got "Herr Flick of the Gestapo."

 

[AlchemicalTheorist]

Just want to thank everyone for their responses. I decided to go with tumbled CXL but with a special request that the cutters use lighter weight hides if possible. I asked Holly to provide me with the pattern measurements and decided that 1930s HB was the best option for me and my fairly blocky build. While the premiers seem great they’re just a tad too slim looking for me whereas having tried a Full Count Single Rider recently I knew where I needed more and less room and size 42 30s HB seemed on point!

 

[AlchemicalTheorist]

Just want to thank everyone for their responses. I decided to go with tumbled CXL but with a special request that the cutters use lighter weight hides if possible. I asked Holly to provide me with the pattern measurements and decided that 1930s HB was the best option for me and my fairly blocky build. While the premiers seem great they’re just a tad too slim looking for me whereas having tried a Full Count Single Rider recently I knew where I needed more and less room and size 42 30s HB seemed on point!

What a difference a few days make. Having discussed matters with Lucy at Aero it appeared the tumbled CXL would pose issues for my sizing. Given my old jacket was only a bit larger than a size 44 but was uncomfortably and unflatteringly large I decided to go with Pinnacle as it is slightly more forgiving on a slimmer fit without the risk of sizing up to a jacket that would be too large in the chest.

I am very impressed with Aero’s customer support ahead of ordering and their patience with the back and forth as I deliberated.

 

[vincent29]

Hi,
I've recently owned a Pinnacle jacket, and what I've noticed is that it starts to adjust to my body and shrink after a few days.
The break-in seems to be very quick.

 

[AlchemicalTheorist]

Hi,
I've recently owned a Pinnacle jacket, and what I've noticed is that it starts to adjust to my body and shrink after a few days.
The break-in seems to be very quick.

Thank you for letting me know. How did you find the arms? Did the break in cause them to functionally shorten due to creasing?

 

[vincent29]

So far, it's pretty light. There are a few small creases that have formed, and the sleeve is riding up very slightly.
But I've only had it for 10 days.
It's perfect. I find the biceps a little too wide, but that should get better with time.

 

[decadent]

What a difference a few days make. Having discussed matters with Lucy at Aero it appeared the tumbled CXL would pose issues for my sizing. Given my old jacket was only a bit larger than a size 44 but was uncomfortably and unflatteringly large I decided to go with Pinnacle as it is slightly more forgiving on a slimmer fit without the risk of sizing up to a jacket that would be too large in the chest.

I am very impressed with Aero’s customer support ahead of ordering and their patience with the back and forth as I deliberated.

I wonder did you receive your jacket already? Can you post some pictures as I am also considering Pinnacle for an Aero Highwayman

 

[Ormus]

Pinnacle is still rather un-known to most of us here as it is still quite new.
Regarding the rest of this, I really want to encourage you to do some searching, as this has been covered many times prior on this forum:

I started this thread in 2019: https://www.thefedoralounge.com/thr...hh-vs-cxl-steerhide-1st-world-problems.97988/

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/aero-cxl-fqhh-vs-vicenza-vs-jerky-hh.115724/

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/horse-vs-steer-vs-goat-premium-half-belt.111594/

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/thr...an-aero-premier-halfbelt.108697/#post-2943563

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/advice-request-first-thurston-bros-custom-aero.108285/

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/cx-fqhh-or-cx-steerhide.104205/#post-2811685

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/black-cxl-vs-black-vicenza-showing-their-age.99816/

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/aero-sheene-fit-advice-and-creative-guidance.94120/page-5

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/thr...mer-self-about-ordering-a-custom-aero.102605/

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/thr...er-cxl-fqhh-or-vicenza-hh.97753/#post-2565205

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/cxl-horsehide-vs-vicenza.95373/

That ought to get you started with some good reading.

This is an important one regarding their fit, and it was started by one of the owners directly.

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/explaining-the-aero-fit.103010/

Any experience with Italian TAMPONATURA calf leather? Thank you!

 

[AeroFan_07]

Any experience with Italian TAMPONATURA calf leather? Thank you!

None what-so ever.

 

[vincent29]

Has anyone tested the tumbled option? It looks really good.