Aero Bronco A-2 (pics)

[PENSACOLA]

Aero A-2 "Bronco"

Hello everyone, new on board,

I was wondering if anyone had any information about Aero's A-2 "Bronco" model; that is, its overall fit compared to Aero's "Real Deal" A-2, and the "Broncos" comparison with ROUGH WEAR Clothing Co. 1943 Pattern A-2?

I am contemplating an investment move on either a "Bronco" or the "Rough Wear." Any information/pics will be appreciated, since all of you are very knowledgeable and cordial in this awesome forum. Regards...

 

[greyhound68]

Hello and welcome to the Lounge,

The Bronco fit is a bit different than the Rough Wear. I have owned both originals (roughwear and Bronco) and have a RW repro from Eastman. The RW tends to be a bit trimmer fit under the arms and also has a collar stand collar which people either like or hate. I found the Bronco original to be a bit of a looser jacket. Both are 44 originals. Don't know much about the Aero Bronco repro though it looks well made. I have owned both the 27752 and 1401 Eastman Roughwears. Both well made though I like the 1401 better. Either contract is a good choice and they were very abundant during WW2. As a repro I don't think you could go wrong with either choice. Mark Moye is the USA Aero rep and you can find his "store" on ebay. Very helpful guy and could guide you through the process. HPA is the USA rep for Eastman and I have found them very helpful as well. HPA has a store on the internet though you have to call them to order. Once you kind of know your size you could search though ebay to see if there are any second hand jackets which will cost you less. Hope this helps.

 

[greyhound68]

Thought I would also post some pictures of collarstand and non collarstand so you could see the difference. First shot is a Roughwear with collarstand and second is an Aero without.

 

[PENSACOLA]

Thank you very much, "greyhound68!" Your information is tremendously helpful, matched with pics. Your A-2's are impeccable as well...

I'll let you know when I make the actual purchase on whichever A-2, and will post the pics. Thanks for your welcome in the lounge...

 

[Estevan]

Welcome Pensacola....Let me chime in here. I don't want to contradict anyone, but the Bronco (At least my original and several other originals that I have owned) are much trimmer and longer in the body than the RW. I normally take a 38 for trim fit and in a Bronco I take a size 40. So there you have it..Longer and trimmer fitting than a RW. Now, as for reproductions, if they follow the original pattern might vary in cut.

 

[PENSACOLA]

"Estevan,"

Thank you for the fill in. I'll keep the "fit" in mind.

I appreciate your response and welcome. Regards...

 

[Estevan]

Here are the measurements on an original RW...As soon as I get the original Bronco back from Eastman (repairs), I will post accurate measurements on that one as well. It's a size 40, as apposed to this one which is a 38.

 

[greyhound68]

My 44 original Bronco was 19 inches in the shoulder, 24 front pit to pit, 23.5 inches along the windflap and 25.5 sleeve length including knits. This is a bit bigger than my 44 original 27752 Roughwear which was only 23 inchs front pit to pit. Pretty much it ran about the same as the Bronco in the other measurements. Now my Goatskin RW original (18091 contract) is about the same as the 44 27752 but was a bit shorter in length along the windflap (23 inches vice 23.5). Of course one will find different measurements among originals even of the same size and contract.

 

[Estevan]

Really strange as mine are just the opposite. Yes, sometimes size varied even between the same manufacturers. This was not uncommon. Broncos normally run trimmer and longer in the torso than other A-2 manufactures. This is the norm.

 

[feltfan]

Yes, very nice. I like the trousers as well. Where are they from?

Paddy,

I know this is the Jacket forum, but I'd also like to
know where the trousers came from and a bit more
about them.

 

[Fletch]

Bear in mind, that I wear this jacket as if it were a 'shirt.' I don't wear it like a modern jacket. The A2 is a summer weight flying jacket (summer as in places like the deep south or California summer!) and that's how I wear it.

Then again, the "flying" half of that equation matters as much as the "summer." It's cooler up in the air. One assumes A-2s got most of their ground wear in those climates during training, and that the resulting enforced discomfort was considered a part of cadet discipline.

(I do know that primary flight training was expressly intended to "make 'em sweat," with a gratuitously stressful style of instruction. If you couldn't hack it, you might still rate bombardier or navigation training as long as you sat still and took the treatment. Those who showed resentment usually blew any chance at a commission.)

I personally wear the flight jacket in place of a sweater, in season, more often than in place of a shirt. Jumpers aren't my thing, altho I find a shirt/turtleneck, lightweight merino-type wool jumper, and A-2/G-1 will carry me comfortably well down into the thirties °F.

 

[PENSACOLA]

"GREYHOUND68, ESTEVAN, PADDY,"

I just returned from vacationing and realized how wonderful my questions about the "BRONCO" model A-2 were clarified and elaborated. First off, great pics of your G-1's, "greyhoun68." I'll post my Martin Lanes soon, okay. Secondly, "Estevan" what a spectacular A-2 you posted--can't wait to see the one you have in repair. "Paddy," that "Bronco" is awesome--now I have a firm grasp of the "BRONCO." Excellent gentlemen!

 

[Estevan]

"GREYHOUND68, ESTEVAN, PADDY,"

I just returned from vacationing and realized how wonderful my questions about the "BRONCO" model A-2 were clarified and elaborated. First off, great pics of your G-1's, "greyhoun68." I'll post my Martin Lanes soon, okay. Secondly, "Estevan" what a spectacular A-2 you posted--can't wait to see the one you have in repair. "Paddy," that "Bronco" is awesome--now I have a firm grasp of the "BRONCO." Excellent gentlemen!

Thanks Pensacola, take a look at the thread I posted about the Bronco, http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=21218 If you liked the RW, you'll flip over the Bronco. ELC did a terrific job with the repair, but it was only cuffs and a zip. I really didn't want to do much else to it as I wanted to keep it as original as possible. Even my wife who normally dislikes my hobby said "Wow!" and coming from her, thats really something. :cheers1:

 

[PENSACOLA]

"Estevan," a fabulous job of restoration!!! Beautiful A-2...Lots of story in that jacket--I met a P-51 pilot, a very old man at the VA hospital once here in Martinez, California...I was waiting for my dad to finish his
checkup...beforehand, I saw this old man pull up in his car (still driving), which had a homemade sign, stating that he was one of those P-51 pilots...his face, within each crack, a story...

I must have looked all the way into the back of his eyes...because I was moved...just as I have been, listening to my dad's stories as a USN seaman.

Take care, Estevan.

 

[Estevan]

"Estevan," a fabulous job of restoration!!! Beautiful A-2...Lots of story in that jacket--I met a P-51 pilot, a very old man at the VA hospital once here in Martinez, California...I was waiting for my dad to finish his
checkup...beforehand, I saw this old man pull up in his car (still driving), which had a homemade sign, stating that he was one of those P-51 pilots...his face, within each crack, a story...

I must have looked all the way into the back of his eyes...because I was moved...just as I have been, listening to my dad's stories as a USN seaman.

Take care, Estevan.

I know exactly what you mean. I could sit and listen to their stories for hours and never get tired. BTW, I posted some pics and questions on armyairforces.com to see if I could get any more information on the pilot. I would like to see if I could get a copy of the incident report from his belly landing and maybe a copy of an official photo. Now a pic with his plane would be way too cool. I'll post anything I turn up. I really want to make this A-2 a keeper, but knowing the history and seeing how it has the aircraft name and the pilots name, I truly think this one deserves to be on display somewhere. I am a bit afraid to wear it for fear of damaging it. The fit is great, as the Broncos tend to run trim. Take care.

 

[PENSACOLA]

"Estevan"

Greetings...Yes, any more info you can get about that pilot would be greatly appreciated. There is a museum North of where I'm at: Travis Air Force Base, and the gentleman who runs that place knows all about "War" History. I'll fill him in on your A-2, and the pilot, who had once owned it...

By the way, extraordinary A-2--the calligraphy painting on it--incredible. I saw the pic of you wearing it--looks like a million dollars! By all means, don't be afraid to wear it--let all see the A-2...wearing the A-2 should be fine, just as long you are not heaving concrete and bricks...However, with such a treasure, I know how you feel.

Have a good one, friend!

 

[Estevan]

"Estevan"

Greetings...Yes, any more info you can get about that pilot would be greatly appreciated. There is a museum North of where I'm at: Travis Air Force Base, and the gentleman who runs that place knows all about "War" History. I'll fill him in on your A-2, and the pilot, who had once owned it...

By the way, extraordinary A-2--the calligraphy painting on it--incredible. I saw the pic of you wearing it--looks like a million dollars! By all means, don't be afraid to wear it--let all see the A-2...wearing the A-2 should be fine, just as long you are not heaving concrete and bricks...However, with such a treasure, I know how you feel.

Have a good one, friend!

Take a look at the thread, I posted an update. You'll flip!

It's incredible what I've turned up.

 

[PENSACOLA]

Whoa! Unbelievable...H.M.S. HELLION...you got the pictures...what a major, major piece...

Thanks for posting those pictures, ESTEVAN--an A-2 is not just an A-2--REAL SKIN WITH GUTS!!!

 

[Estevan]

Whoa! Unbelievable...H.M.S. HELLION...you got the pictures...what a major, major piece...

Thanks for posting those pictures, ESTEVAN--an A-2 is not just an A-2--REAL SKIN WITH GUTS!!!

Yes, it is amazing what a little searching can turn up. I was floored when the historian sent me those pictures, it was simply amazing. I have another fellow sending me even more pictures of "Red". It appears he was a real likable guy withing the squadron. He did unfortunately die in 1990 of MS, but was loved until his last day. I now am in contact with most of the remaining squadron pilots simply because of this jacket, it's indescribable. I feel so very fortunate to have found these guys, the sacrifices they made are still remembered today.

The funny thing is the so called "collector" who sold me the jacket said "It's most likely a B-24 pilot's jacket, but I'm not sure." Some collector, 2 seconds on Google turned up a wealth of information.

One other note, "Red" took part in the famous Three-Way June 21st, 1944 Russia Shuttle Mission. A much documented event. He had one kill that day. "As an aside, Red flew in that Jacket that day"

The first 8th Army Air Force (AAF) three-way "Frantic" Shuttle Mission to Russia, Italy, and back to England lifted off from English soil on 21 June 1944. While the Shuttle's bomber groups and the 4th Fighter Group's involvement have been well covered, few have recognized the contributions of the 486th Fighter Squadron. The 486th was one of three squadrons making up the renowned 352nd Fighter Group, known as the "Bluenosed Bastards of Bodney" for their blue painted Mustang cowlings. Attached to the 4th FG's three squadrons on this mission, the "Bluenosers" carried more than their share of the fight to the Luftwaffe.
The basic concept behind any Shuttle Mission flown by the AAF in '44 was to confuse the defenders of the Reich by not leaving the target area in the same way it was approached. A side benefit of this plan was the corresponding boost in morale for our visited Allies. Over 160 Third Division bombers were involved in this Shuttle, closely escorted by 60-plus P-51 Mustangs.
By continuing westward into Russia after bombing Ruhland, the Eighth's aircraft would theoretically endure the Luftwaffe's wrath only once. As was customary, escort duty would be divided among several units. The final longrange, escort leg into Russia would be handled by the 4th FG and the 486th FS.

Tom Colby (piloting Ln Evey PZ*T, s/n 43-6864) recounts, "Warsaw was still under our left wing, and we were perhaps 50 to 75 miles south and just crossing the River Vistula, when we were hit by perhaps 20 Messerschmitt Me-109 fighters. The engagement was short and sweet. I didn't see much as I had a 108gallon tank hang up and couldn't immediately shake it off. I spent a lot of effort in violent maneuvers, and was finally successful at the end of the engagement." Willie 0. Jackson also had a "hung" tank, which later tumbled loose in formation to the consternation of those narrowly missed.
The "sweet" part of the engagement was the 486th's score. Lt. Leo Northrop downed two Me-109s, Lts. Donald "Red" Whinnem and Edwin Heller each accounted for one, and Yellow Leader Maj. Stephen "Andy" Andrew (in PZ*A, s/n 42-106467) had the lone "damaged" claim.

 

[PADDY]

This is just getting 'more amazing!'

This is absolutely amazing Steve!! To have copies of those photos and the correspondance too, just adds to the whole thing, doesn't it! Bet you never thought when you got this jacket that all this history would be following it!! Great early Xmas present for you.
Keep it coming!!:eusa_clap