Greyfox
One of the Regulars
- Messages
- 290
- Location
- East Tennessee
Congrats Lloyd. You and I will get ours at about the same time. Isn't he just a pleasure to work with?:eusa_clap
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Advice for newcomer on custom hatters
- Thread starter Lloyd
- Start date
Le Samouraï
New in Town
- Messages
- 6
- Location
- Los Angeles/ Paris
In re: Baron Hats, and the real facts
To be right out front, I am a big fan of Baron Hats. I’ve been there twice and had a great amount of time talking to the owner and the other craftsmen. I would like to ask the individual who is trashing them, where he gets his facts. In a word, he is wrong. By twisting the truth, they are disparaging a company with an impeccable 65 year history. For what reason? He says their language is “slippery”, and then in the next sentence has to admit that in fact they said nothing wrong. They did in fact make the hat, the Boater that is most prevalent in the movie, and in fact, have the original one in their museum. They have indeed had a long association with Johnny Depp, having made hats for him in the past. And they were very upfront about the fact that they did not make the fedora. What they did was also offer a reproduction of the Fedora for those who would like it. That’s lying? What they do is love hats, and offer high-quality reproductions, made in the old fashion hand-blocking, of many of the famous hats of the past, and the present. When they actually made a hat, like Russell Crowe’s in “3:10 To Yuma”, they will tell you, and when they are just offering a great unique hat, like Kurt Russell’s from “The Thing”, they do not say they made the original, only that they can make a reproduction of it (I have that hat, by the way, and it’s a wonder). I can think of no other company that puts this kind of time and effort into such hats. There are huge conglomerates that buy the logo rights to hats, and then have cheap knockoff’s made in China, and others that will call something the “Gangster”, with allusions to the Dillinger hat, and simply sell a standard cheap fedora. From the quality of the furs, to the time and labor taken to make their hats, Baron's are the real thing, and their prices are in line with any hand made custom hat.
The whole Indian Jones flap has been talked about ad nauseam on this site. So, let's not go there again. Bottom line: Baron’s has never, ever claimed to have made the hat. If you check the Parade Magazine article, (which one person tried to use to prove otherwise), they were very specific about that fact. Read it yourself. They said nothing about the “Jones” hat, and only talked about the cap they made for LaBeouf. What they did do was re-work the Fedora’s, per the costumers request right before production. As a favor to the costumer. And they closed down their shop for several days, and worked around the clock to do so. There has never been any reference anywhere of Speilberg refuting Baron Hats. That is just downright “pulled from the hat” fiction. Baron’s has never, ever taken credit from anyone, and is, in fact, one of the prime “hard working” hatters in this country. Show some facts before you simply slam one of the last remaining hat company’s with rumors and falsehoods. We all know that hatters are not rich. They never will be. There are great craftsmen in this country, and they all deserve credit and support from people like us. I have spoken to a great many of them, and they are a very non-competitive group. They help each other, since they want to see the art live. They are a tight knit group, who help each other when needed, who share "secrets". They do what they do because they love the craft. And we, as devotees of this dying art, should celebrate those who literally devote their lives to this art. Not try to bring them down with lies.
In my own experience both with personal contact with the Baron people and being at their studio on several occasions, and also reading a great deal of what Baron Hats has to say (they are very much in the news these days, and you can see a lot of their media on YouTube), if anything, they go out of their way to give credit where credit is due, and have given of their time anomalously on at least three occasions that I personally know of, to help other hatters and costumers who needed help, as they did on the last Indiana Jones. When I was there they were also working with several interns and apprentices’, teaching them the craft of the hat, so that the art will not die before out time. They even let me try my hand at it. I can tell you very honestly, I will never be a hatter, and it is truly hard work!
If someone what to trash and try and destroy someone's reputation, then I believe it is vital that they speak from experience, first hand knowledge or irrefutable facts, that can be backed up with real evidence. To do otherwise, is not only immoral, but illegal, and perhaps someone should explore this kind of libel with one’s legal council. No, telling the truth, as Baron’s has, is not “slippery”. What is slippery is the slope that is created by malicious, vindictive innuendo.
To be right out front, I am a big fan of Baron Hats. I’ve been there twice and had a great amount of time talking to the owner and the other craftsmen. I would like to ask the individual who is trashing them, where he gets his facts. In a word, he is wrong. By twisting the truth, they are disparaging a company with an impeccable 65 year history. For what reason? He says their language is “slippery”, and then in the next sentence has to admit that in fact they said nothing wrong. They did in fact make the hat, the Boater that is most prevalent in the movie, and in fact, have the original one in their museum. They have indeed had a long association with Johnny Depp, having made hats for him in the past. And they were very upfront about the fact that they did not make the fedora. What they did was also offer a reproduction of the Fedora for those who would like it. That’s lying? What they do is love hats, and offer high-quality reproductions, made in the old fashion hand-blocking, of many of the famous hats of the past, and the present. When they actually made a hat, like Russell Crowe’s in “3:10 To Yuma”, they will tell you, and when they are just offering a great unique hat, like Kurt Russell’s from “The Thing”, they do not say they made the original, only that they can make a reproduction of it (I have that hat, by the way, and it’s a wonder). I can think of no other company that puts this kind of time and effort into such hats. There are huge conglomerates that buy the logo rights to hats, and then have cheap knockoff’s made in China, and others that will call something the “Gangster”, with allusions to the Dillinger hat, and simply sell a standard cheap fedora. From the quality of the furs, to the time and labor taken to make their hats, Baron's are the real thing, and their prices are in line with any hand made custom hat.
The whole Indian Jones flap has been talked about ad nauseam on this site. So, let's not go there again. Bottom line: Baron’s has never, ever claimed to have made the hat. If you check the Parade Magazine article, (which one person tried to use to prove otherwise), they were very specific about that fact. Read it yourself. They said nothing about the “Jones” hat, and only talked about the cap they made for LaBeouf. What they did do was re-work the Fedora’s, per the costumers request right before production. As a favor to the costumer. And they closed down their shop for several days, and worked around the clock to do so. There has never been any reference anywhere of Speilberg refuting Baron Hats. That is just downright “pulled from the hat” fiction. Baron’s has never, ever taken credit from anyone, and is, in fact, one of the prime “hard working” hatters in this country. Show some facts before you simply slam one of the last remaining hat company’s with rumors and falsehoods. We all know that hatters are not rich. They never will be. There are great craftsmen in this country, and they all deserve credit and support from people like us. I have spoken to a great many of them, and they are a very non-competitive group. They help each other, since they want to see the art live. They are a tight knit group, who help each other when needed, who share "secrets". They do what they do because they love the craft. And we, as devotees of this dying art, should celebrate those who literally devote their lives to this art. Not try to bring them down with lies.
In my own experience both with personal contact with the Baron people and being at their studio on several occasions, and also reading a great deal of what Baron Hats has to say (they are very much in the news these days, and you can see a lot of their media on YouTube), if anything, they go out of their way to give credit where credit is due, and have given of their time anomalously on at least three occasions that I personally know of, to help other hatters and costumers who needed help, as they did on the last Indiana Jones. When I was there they were also working with several interns and apprentices’, teaching them the craft of the hat, so that the art will not die before out time. They even let me try my hand at it. I can tell you very honestly, I will never be a hatter, and it is truly hard work!
If someone what to trash and try and destroy someone's reputation, then I believe it is vital that they speak from experience, first hand knowledge or irrefutable facts, that can be backed up with real evidence. To do otherwise, is not only immoral, but illegal, and perhaps someone should explore this kind of libel with one’s legal council. No, telling the truth, as Baron’s has, is not “slippery”. What is slippery is the slope that is created by malicious, vindictive innuendo.
Le Samouraï
New in Town
- Messages
- 6
- Location
- Los Angeles/ Paris
Get your facts right
PS: If anyone would like to have check my own facts, please feel free to contact me. And I'm not a member of any "Hall of Fame".
PS: If anyone would like to have check my own facts, please feel free to contact me. And I'm not a member of any "Hall of Fame".
Mulceber
Practically Family
- Messages
- 760
- Location
- Ann Arbor, Michigan
I never denied that. However when most people think of "the Public Enemies Hat," they think of the hat that appeared on all the billboards, the movie posters, etc: the oxblood hat which was made by Optimo. When Baron uses language like "We at Baron's are proud to have had a long association with Depp. He is one actor who knows the true value of a great hat! And we are honored to have been a part of his seductive recreation of John Dillinger" in the page of their reproduction of the oxblood hat, it's going to send the wrong message to people.
Dude, I can agree that Baron probably puts a lot of time into making each hat. But if you're going to come in here and try to claim that nobody else puts that type of time and effort into their hats, you'd better be prepared to be laughed at. Because I can think of 5 hat makers right off the top of my head that I would be prepared to bet put as much time into their hats as Baron: Adventurebilt, VS, Tumwater, Penman and Optimo.
Did you actually read my post or did you just get the sparknotes version of it? lol I never claimed that Baron said they made the hats for Indy IV. I said that the media made that claim and that Baron was slow to deny it. And they were.
I don't know what you're trying to imply with that last sentence, but whatever it is, you're making a fool out of yourself. The "Hall of Fame" I believe you're referencing is the name of the guild on this forum for people who own hats made by Art Fawcett. If you check out this thread, you'll find hundreds of people who have posted the hats they have which were made by him. There are similar guilds for Penman and Adventurebilt, as well as several vintage hat makers like Dobbs and even for particular styles such as the open road. If someone were to start one for Baron's (maybe call it the Baron Brigade) I'm sure it would be welcome on this site.
Going through your post I haven't been able to find one instance where you actually contradicted me. Every single time you said basically the same thing I did, except that where I was skeptical of Mark's intentions, you embraced and lauded them. So go ahead and show people your facts. Unless your facts provide proof of Mark's intentions, they'll end up vindicating me just as much as they will you. -M
Fedora
Vendor
- Messages
- 828
- Location
- Mississippi
If not for Bernie mentioning that I made the hats, on the special dvd feature from Indy 4, the truth would still be up for grabs. Fedora
Lloyd said:
Great choice!
WOAH! Custom beaver fedora delivered to the customer in less than a month?! Sweet deal! :eusa_clap
Did you pick one of Art Fawcett's existing stock hats or is he making you one from scratch?
Some nice stuff from Vintage Silhouettes going out to a few people for the Holidays! One month for a custom beaver fedora! That's an excellent turnaround time considering the range of hats he's been making lately.
http://thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=13616
Lloyd
A-List Customer
- Messages
- 451
- Location
- Los Angeles
Tone said:
Went for the scratch option
danofarlington
My Mail is Forwarded Here
- Messages
- 3,122
- Location
- Arlington, Virginia
which hatter
My conclusion after buying some hats, is that there is no solution to wondering who's got what, except to buy some hats.
Try one from one place, another from another place. There is a certain irreducible discovery cost associated with buying something new. I like to hear about all the various places on the FL here. But, at some point you'll just have to lay down your money and see what happens. Actually to me, that's part of the fun of the whole thing.
Lloyd said:
My conclusion after buying some hats, is that there is no solution to wondering who's got what, except to buy some hats.
Try one from one place, another from another place. There is a certain irreducible discovery cost associated with buying something new. I like to hear about all the various places on the FL here. But, at some point you'll just have to lay down your money and see what happens. Actually to me, that's part of the fun of the whole thing.
bowlerman
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 6,294
- Location
- South Dakota
Re; Baron Hats and other custom hatters
I'll try and revive a little of this post here, as I'm having difficulty doing a specific response search of certain custom hatters that I'd like to know more about. For instance when I search for "Clearwater Hats", many threads come up that have thousands of pages of responses that may or may not contain those words and I just don't have to patience to sift through them all. If this doesn't work perhaps I'll start a new thread.
So--- I have a really great hat from Mark Mejia at Baron Hats, and have been to the Burbank store once. The hat is excellent quality-- a dark moss bowler somewhat reminiscent of the hat Tito Jackson wears in his Baron interview (on the website), for $200 plus shipping.
Here are my few frustrations with them-- On the phone they convey a sense of being so busy that they jump to conclusions without actually listening to what you're saying. I couldn't have been more clear about the color, but we had to rely on descriptions, because he didn't have a name at the time for the dye I was after, and after awhile they sent me what I perceived as a leprechaun green semi-soft bowler. It was... beautiful, but unwearable unless you're at a St. Patty's Day party, and not what I asked for. They were so gracious on the phone and stuck to their policy of "getting it right" but the second hat they sent me was perfect and the stiffness was great... and it was too big. Then I went to CA to visit some family and took the hat to the Burbank shop to get reblocked. They measured my head there and sent me a hat that was slightly too tight. I'm proud to wear it, only not for too long as it starts to hurt and leave a mark on my forehead.
I guess what I'm trying to convey is: they made a great hat, but are extremely difficult to communicate with because of their hurried telephone manner. I'd be slightly hesitant to order from them again if there are others that are more communicative and affordable.
So I've seen good reviews here about Art Fawcett, Buckaroo, and Jaxonbilt custom hatters, but am still wondering about Clearwater and Tim Bender. Anyone?
I'll try and revive a little of this post here, as I'm having difficulty doing a specific response search of certain custom hatters that I'd like to know more about. For instance when I search for "Clearwater Hats", many threads come up that have thousands of pages of responses that may or may not contain those words and I just don't have to patience to sift through them all. If this doesn't work perhaps I'll start a new thread.
So--- I have a really great hat from Mark Mejia at Baron Hats, and have been to the Burbank store once. The hat is excellent quality-- a dark moss bowler somewhat reminiscent of the hat Tito Jackson wears in his Baron interview (on the website), for $200 plus shipping.
Here are my few frustrations with them-- On the phone they convey a sense of being so busy that they jump to conclusions without actually listening to what you're saying. I couldn't have been more clear about the color, but we had to rely on descriptions, because he didn't have a name at the time for the dye I was after, and after awhile they sent me what I perceived as a leprechaun green semi-soft bowler. It was... beautiful, but unwearable unless you're at a St. Patty's Day party, and not what I asked for. They were so gracious on the phone and stuck to their policy of "getting it right" but the second hat they sent me was perfect and the stiffness was great... and it was too big. Then I went to CA to visit some family and took the hat to the Burbank shop to get reblocked. They measured my head there and sent me a hat that was slightly too tight. I'm proud to wear it, only not for too long as it starts to hurt and leave a mark on my forehead.
I guess what I'm trying to convey is: they made a great hat, but are extremely difficult to communicate with because of their hurried telephone manner. I'd be slightly hesitant to order from them again if there are others that are more communicative and affordable.
So I've seen good reviews here about Art Fawcett, Buckaroo, and Jaxonbilt custom hatters, but am still wondering about Clearwater and Tim Bender. Anyone?
Dave Brown
New in Town
- Messages
- 6
- Location
- henrietta new york
just read your thread (outstanding) and cannot agree with you more about those that critcize without going to the source or checking the facts before they write something that is a a bald face lie or using words that mislead the reader and hurt those that they wish to deface.
thats pretty much why I got out of the lounge a few years back I couldn't stand the petty attitudes of those that wished to force there own agenda and influence on those that wished to better the lounge and the AMERICAN hatmakers.
now i'm back because one of my customers told me they are bashing me and I'd better do something about it. I read some threads and contacted those involved and responded to them and they, accept for one, responded and corrected their thread.
I guess I will stick around and see what's going on because 99% of the threads,opinions and statements are interesting.
I probably got tis quote wrong(I think I'm close) The Duke "life is tough pilgrim, it's even tougher when your stupid"
Respectfully submitted
Dave Brown
thats pretty much why I got out of the lounge a few years back I couldn't stand the petty attitudes of those that wished to force there own agenda and influence on those that wished to better the lounge and the AMERICAN hatmakers.
now i'm back because one of my customers told me they are bashing me and I'd better do something about it. I read some threads and contacted those involved and responded to them and they, accept for one, responded and corrected their thread.
I guess I will stick around and see what's going on because 99% of the threads,opinions and statements are interesting.
I probably got tis quote wrong(I think I'm close) The Duke "life is tough pilgrim, it's even tougher when your stupid"
Respectfully submitted
Dave Brown
jlee562
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 5,104
- Location
- San Francisco, CA
Ah, well then perhaps you can clarify what is meant by your posting of this image on your website:
It's my understanding that Optimo made the Public Enemies Dillinger hat.
Dave Brown
New in Town
- Messages
- 6
- Location
- henrietta new york
NO PROBLEM!!
On or about 1/08/08 I recieved a W9 from Chryl Beasley for the Movie "public Enemy" for me to produce hats for the principals in the aforesaid movie. The costume designer Collen Atwood (whom I have worked for numerous times) sent me pictures of hats to reproduce for MR Depp with the specific request to reproduce the same. Invoice #H-781 was created for a grey hat size 7 1/4 x 6x 4x2 1/4 printed with (see instructions per 1930 printed on it) 3 hats were made .
on or about 01/08/08 I recieved instruction(from C. beasley) to ship aforesaid hat to C& j costumes in N. Hollywood & please include your invoice ETC< ETC< shipped by fed ex (on or about 01/13/08)
If you wish to see my documentation I will be HAPPY to reproduce for you.Feel free to contact M.s Beasley or anyone else involved in the film.
The possibility of Optimo , me, Barons,even fawcett working for a movie is not out of the norm. All I know is Colleen ask me,and I did , Make hats for mr Depp in "public Enemy"
I hope this answer your inquiry ? and puts to rest any question as to the VALIDITY to my claim that I did indeed, and have in the past and made hats for Mr Depp for the movie "Public Enemy" specifically.
this is the problem I specifically was adressing in my previous thread #31 all you had to do is call me or the studio and this type of excrement would not exist. Ah that would have been to easy though huh PILGRIM!!
respectfully
Dave Brown The HATTER
p.s. all my credits are valid or I wouldn't post them ,I hold my reputation and my work to highly to have some anal sphincter embarass me
On or about 1/08/08 I recieved a W9 from Chryl Beasley for the Movie "public Enemy" for me to produce hats for the principals in the aforesaid movie. The costume designer Collen Atwood (whom I have worked for numerous times) sent me pictures of hats to reproduce for MR Depp with the specific request to reproduce the same. Invoice #H-781 was created for a grey hat size 7 1/4 x 6x 4x2 1/4 printed with (see instructions per 1930 printed on it) 3 hats were made .
on or about 01/08/08 I recieved instruction(from C. beasley) to ship aforesaid hat to C& j costumes in N. Hollywood & please include your invoice ETC< ETC< shipped by fed ex (on or about 01/13/08)
If you wish to see my documentation I will be HAPPY to reproduce for you.Feel free to contact M.s Beasley or anyone else involved in the film.
The possibility of Optimo , me, Barons,even fawcett working for a movie is not out of the norm. All I know is Colleen ask me,and I did , Make hats for mr Depp in "public Enemy"
I hope this answer your inquiry ? and puts to rest any question as to the VALIDITY to my claim that I did indeed, and have in the past and made hats for Mr Depp for the movie "Public Enemy" specifically.
this is the problem I specifically was adressing in my previous thread #31 all you had to do is call me or the studio and this type of excrement would not exist. Ah that would have been to easy though huh PILGRIM!!
respectfully
Dave Brown The HATTER
p.s. all my credits are valid or I wouldn't post them ,I hold my reputation and my work to highly to have some anal sphincter embarass me
jlee562
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 5,104
- Location
- San Francisco, CA
NO PROBLEM!!
On or about 1/08/08 I recieved a W9 from Chryl Beasley for the Movie "public Enemy" for me to produce hats for the principals in the aforesaid movie. The costume designer Collen Atwood (whom I have worked for numerous times) sent me pictures of hats to reproduce for MR Depp with the specific request to reproduce the same. Invoice #H-781 was created for a grey hat size 7 1/4 x 6x 4x2 1/4 printed with (see instructions per 1930 printed on it) 3 hats were made .
on or about 01/08/08 I recieved instruction(from C. beasley) to ship aforesaid hat to C& j costumes in N. Hollywood & please include your invoice ETC< ETC< shipped by fed ex (on or about 01/13/08)
If you wish to see my documentation I will be HAPPY to reproduce for you.Feel free to contact M.s Beasley or anyone else involved in the film.
The possibility of Optimo , me, Barons,even fawcett working for a movie is not out of the norm. All I know is Colleen ask me,and I did , Make hats for mr Depp in "public Enemy"
I hope this answer your inquiry ? and puts to rest any question as to the VALIDITY to my claim that I did indeed, and have in the past and made hats for Mr Depp for the movie "Public Enemy" specifically.
this is the problem I specifically was adressing in my previous thread #31 all you had to do is call me or the studio and this type of excrement would not exist. Ah that would have been to easy though huh PILGRIM!!
respectfully
Dave Brown The HATTER
p.s. all my credits are valid or I wouldn't post them ,I hold my reputation and my work to highly to have some anal sphincter embarass me
But the picture above displays the Ox Blood Optimo hat, does it not?
What hat, shown on screen, is yours?
Baron's also submitted a hat for Indy IV, but their hat was not picked and is not on screen in the movie, as is well documented, that hat was made by Steve Delk and Marc Kitter.
That was the discrepancy many of us had with Baron's with their wording about what they actually did for Indy IV.
With all due respect Mr. Brown, I take it on your word that you made a hat for Mr. Depp, but unless you are claiming the hat in the picture above is yours (which, appears to my eyes to be the Optimo hat which was used in the scene that the picture appears to be from), I would say your website is misleading.
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Me too.
danofarlington
My Mail is Forwarded Here
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- 3,122
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- Arlington, Virginia
Whatever, I was planning to insert a Dave Brown Hatter hat on my list of to-buy hats. I like the dimensions and taper of some of the models of his dress hats. I am somewhat out of the realm of caring about the stars' hats. What does the hat do for me, is on my mind.
Neophyte
My Mail is Forwarded Here
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- 3,445
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- Chattanooga, TN
Hey Dave Brown, I really like your catalogue of hats. One of the things that struck me is the sheer number of creases on the western felts you offer. There was one thing that I was wondering about, though. One the western page, you state that you don't recommend leather hatbands.
What's wrong with leather? Does it affect the felt in some way?
What's wrong with leather? Does it affect the felt in some way?
scottyrocks
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 9,178
- Location
- Isle of Langerhan, NY
I hold my reputation and my work to highly to have some anal sphincter embarass me
'Anal sphincter?' Thats how you hold up your reputation? With personal insults? I hope a bartender is indeed monitoring this thread.
suitedcboy
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,348
- Location
- Fort Worth Texas or thereabouts
Who is Dave Brown? Why is he mad about Baron's hats being taken a bit to task over the PE hat claim?
I'm lost maybe.
I have a couple of Stetson western premiums and it says inspected by Nancy Jackson behind sweatband. Who is she and what the hell was she doing looking at my hat?
Don't we all have two of those anal whatchamacallits? Which one was he referring to the inner or outer one?
Do we have two for the same reason houses up north have inner and outer doors? You're supposed to hang hats,and coats and slide off wet boots inside the outer one but outside the inner one?
I'm lost maybe.
I have a couple of Stetson western premiums and it says inspected by Nancy Jackson behind sweatband. Who is she and what the hell was she doing looking at my hat?
Don't we all have two of those anal whatchamacallits? Which one was he referring to the inner or outer one?
Do we have two for the same reason houses up north have inner and outer doors? You're supposed to hang hats,and coats and slide off wet boots inside the outer one but outside the inner one?
jlee562
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 5,104
- Location
- San Francisco, CA
Mr. Brown does actually have many film hats to his credit, and I by no means am attempting to disparage his work. I understand he made Tom Hanks' hat for "Catch Me if You Can.". And that is quite a handsome hat.
I still have questions about why Mr. Brown appears to be taking credit for Optimo's hat vis-a-vis the above picture from his website.
I still have questions about why Mr. Brown appears to be taking credit for Optimo's hat vis-a-vis the above picture from his website.
