About tweed suits...

[esteban68]

I've pretty much worn a tie every day since October ....keeps the neck warm almost as good as a scarf.
I can't see being working class as a barrier to wearing links etc, I wear them all the time as did my grandad who was a Collier, come to think of it most of his mates still wore pocket watches identity bracelets et al.

 

[Benproof]

Cryptic if not incomprehensible! You seem to be talking riddles most of the time.

Sorry. I should know better than to post after a bottle after dinner tonight!

 

[GHT]

Oooh...that sounds so kinky! I've changed my mind. I will try wearing a tie now.

If you think that's kinky, wait until you use a neck tie with, how shall I say? Certain 'images on it.' Ooh-la-la!

See, the very lack of functionality is what I love about a tie: it's a purely aesthetic flourish. Ditto rings, cufflinks, et cetera...

What I dislike about the open neck look, with shirts that are designed to be buttoned up, is that there is no collar support. Even with collar stiffeners it still looks, if not, crumpled, then lacking in symmetry. A tie completes the finish, as Edward said, a flourish. An open neck shirt looks great if the cut gives the open neck a lapel look.

 

[esteban68]

Or for extra elan you can throw a cravat/ ascot on with an open shirt!

 

[Hal]

What I dislike about the open neck look, with shirts that are designed to be buttoned up, is that there is no collar support. Even with collar stiffeners it still looks, if not, crumpled, then lacking in symmetry. A tie completes the finish, as Edward said, a flourish.

Well said!

An open neck shirt looks great if the cut gives the open neck a lapel look.

From about 1945 to about 1955, a good many men wore the open neck of a shirt over the jacket collar; possibly these shirts were cut in the way you mention. I still don't like the look with a jacket, but it's pounds better than the present-day practice.

 

[Hal]

I have a puritanical diffidence to men jewellery bangles, bracelets, cuff links, wristwatches, tie clips, rings, earrings.

So do many of us, myself included.

This is probably a reflection of my working class roots.

See esteban's comment (posting no. 81). In Britain, the most puritanical class is probably the lower middle class - if we must talk in such terms.

 

[Dirk Wainscotting]

So do many of us, myself included.

See esteban's comment (posting no. 81). In Britain, the most puritanical class is probably the lower middle class - if we must talk in such terms.

That is so very true. I'm also of working class stock and I'd say jewellery is far more common there than among other classes. It can be gaudy and in-yer-face (chunky bracelets, overly-large rings), but there was never much self-consciousness about it. Most men of that class in the 30s/40s/50s and the 1960s had dirty jobs or ones with dull uniforms and relished the chance to get suited at the weekend. So a tie bar, cuff links and maybe a pocket timepiece was a personal treat.

When people really were working 12-14 hours a day and getting dirty, they understandably wanted to look the bees knees whenever they could. Many of their sons are now polishing a seat with their backsides for a job. It's not the same.

 

[Benproof]

I might be English, but I'm not soooo English as to split hairs about lower and middle class distinctions

As far as I'm concerned, there are only 3 classes:

Working Class: We all work, will in the future, or used to in the past, to earn a living, and that's class.

Trust Fund Class: No need to work: mommy and daddy had trust funds before hedge funds came in. Breaking a finger nail requires a Facebook upload and the world falls apart if the butler doesn't come on time. Ironically, this is not class: this is the relic of the bourgeoisie.

Drug Dealer Class: Gold jewellery, bling! lots of male accoutrements, BMWs, over the top gold necklaces. Also includes medallion man and bald steroid muscle building steroid taking closet criminal funding. Absolutely no class.



But as Dirk says, certain sub class icons within the working class dress sense prevail and this is what I find I prefer. I quite like the 19th century miner look with their fashionably practical miner's jackets (or donkey jackets too), or the aircraft RAF look with their svelte long RAF overcoats in the iconic RAF blue wool, spun for their Aberdeen factory (Crombie); or the USN military style, which ironically has led to many Japanese heritage designers like Daiji Sujuki, or companies like Post Overalls, Orslow, Neighborhood all creating high quality repros.

Even the English Harold Lloyd 1930's actors look which Dirk posted somewhere is great, if not superb as a dress sense. Painters' smocks I'm particularly fond of as well as the authentic motorcycle dress sense (but not so much the over done 'biker look' posers look. It's hard to take the credibility of someone who wears a bikers jacket, yet can't even ride a 50cc scooter seriously).

None of these subclasses of the working class are ever defined by jewellery or men bling!

However a single plain silver wedding ring on a finger I can just about handle

 

[Dirk Wainscotting]

I wonder if anyone who writes 'Mommy' is English at all!

There are a lot of styles you're referencing there, some very unusual (painter's smocks?). I can't help but look askance at 'working-class chic' adopted as a fashion statement. My grandfather wore clothes like this because he had to, not because he wanted to. Not that I dislike the look, and they were sturdy, hard-wearing clothes.
Politics is generally banned here, but there's a lot of rot spoken about class in Britain today. Postmodern nonsense (unfortunately pumped out of the Guardian these days) about it no longer being relevant or to have shifted into 'fluid definitions'.

Back to men-jewellery... I don't feel that the use of cuff-links, a tie bar and a ring could be classed as bling. Ties, too, don't have to be thought of as 'overly formal' except by those who are so regularly informal that their idea of "dressing up" is polishing their shoes once a year.

In any case I don't really expect tie-aversion to even crop up as a topic on the suits section of Fedora Lounge, which is - to repeat - a forum for people who admire golden age dressing.

 

[Benproof]

We have a strong American readership. Keep with it Dirk!

Working class has to have a pragmatic function; I wear painters smocks because that's what I do. when I'm not, it's great being able to dress down in melton wool overalls and ragged pants (that's trousers for us Euro and Brits). Although mixing context, and wearing them to go to the bank is a big no no of course. Ahem.

Not everyone in the Golden Age wore ties either. Certainly that is what the mainstream might portray. I don't have an aversion to ties - I have over 100 of them! I do have an aversion to wearing them whenever I don't need to though

I wonder if anyone who writes 'Mommy' is English at all!

There are a lot of styles you're referencing there, some very unusual (painter's smocks?). I can't help but look askance at 'working-class chic' adopted as a fashion statement. My grandfather wore clothes like this because he had to, not because he wanted to. Not that I dislike the look, and they were sturdy, hard-wearing clothes.
Politics is generally banned here, but there's a lot of rot spoken about class in Britain today. Postmodern nonsense (unfortunately pumped out of the Guardian these days) about it no longer being relevant or to have shifted into 'fluid definitions'.

Back to men-jewellery... I don't feel that the use of cuff-links, a tie bar and a ring could be classed as bling. Ties, too, don't have to be thought of as 'overly formal' except by those who are so regularly informal that their idea of "dressing up" is polishing their shoes once a year.

In any case I don't really expect tie-aversion to even crop up as a topic on the suits section of Fedora Lounge, which is - to repeat - a forum for people who admire golden age dressing.

 

[Hal]

Keep with it Dirk!
...when I'm not, it's great being able to dress down in melton wool overalls and ragged pants (that's trousers for us Euro and Brits). Although mixing context, and wearing them to go to the bank is a big no no of course. Ahem.

Doing something you don't have to do is often very worthwhile, and for many of us that includes wearing a tie.
If you are, by your writing, telling us not to take ourselves too seriously, fine. Perhaps WE are taking YOU too seriously, and should be more aware when you are arguing for the sake of argument (or, indeed, trying to put us down) as opposed to making a genuine point (though these are not mutually exclusive).