So, as the thread title suggests, I'm trying to decide if I should put one on my GW Dubow or not? For daily wear, patched up jackets are not my thing but the shoulder decal is appealing and I do like the way they look when they crack and fade. So what are peoples general thoughts on the subject?
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AAF Shoulder Decal. To apply a meatball or not?
- Thread starter devilish
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Re-enacting then patch it. Otherwise, unless you or ancestor served in it, don't...JMHO
Interbak
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I agree with Dean, unless I earned it, it doesn't belong on my jacket. The only jacket I have with an AAF decal is my B3, bought used, which only comes out when it's -20 degrees, so no one really sees it anyway.
Brian
Brian
Dr H
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I'd be more pragmatic - if you're ever contemplating selling it (as you'll split opinion and your potential market); you won't be able to remove it that easily without possibly damaging the surface finish.
I don't get that bothered about the 'I didn't earn it' view with replicas unless you're patching an original (as you're altering the history/provenance of the jacket).
This jacket isn't an original so if you want a patch, then patch it - you're already wearing something that could be mistaken for an original anyway (particularly as it's of of John's jackets) so the argument is weakened in my view.
Personally, I'm not keen on wearing patches/decals, but it's a matter of age - were I 30 years younger I'd be happier to patch/decal my GW Perry. I simply don't want to look like I'm trying too hard to look like a wartime pilot at my age.
I don't get that bothered about the 'I didn't earn it' view with replicas unless you're patching an original (as you're altering the history/provenance of the jacket).
This jacket isn't an original so if you want a patch, then patch it - you're already wearing something that could be mistaken for an original anyway (particularly as it's of of John's jackets) so the argument is weakened in my view.
Personally, I'm not keen on wearing patches/decals, but it's a matter of age - were I 30 years younger I'd be happier to patch/decal my GW Perry. I simply don't want to look like I'm trying too hard to look like a wartime pilot at my age.
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In my view..put the decal on if you wish. It does look sharp..as well as the WW2 A2 jacket that many of us admire. There is no way any of us could be issued or earn anything from that era. It's
all in celebration of the one's that went before and commemorating the style they also portrayed while doing it.
As I've posted before..I served in the U.S. Army...and would be proud if someone recognized and even displayed representations ..and if only because they look appealing.
The decal fits the jacket and is another symbol that compliments that style...IMHO.
HD
all in celebration of the one's that went before and commemorating the style they also portrayed while doing it.
As I've posted before..I served in the U.S. Army...and would be proud if someone recognized and even displayed representations ..and if only because they look appealing.
The decal fits the jacket and is another symbol that compliments that style...IMHO.
HD
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IMHO, I think that it's perfectly fine to add a AAF decal/patch or squadron insignia.
BUT adding rank or wings - that's something else entirely and I'd say that that's a definite no-no that would most likely cause offense to a veteran or serving personnel - and I know that's not we're about here. I have a friend who serves as an officer in the RCAF and his comment was that a certain amount of sacrifice (time/distance/relationships/risk) is involved with obtaining rank and I get that.
But I read that all AAF gear was to be officially stenciled with the generic AAF symbol, so it's appropriate to an A2.
Personally, I think that as long as the insignia is limited to 40's era patches and stencils etc - and nothing that could be mistaken as current - I think it's a fine way to remember those dark days and honour those who served.
But that's just me.
BUT adding rank or wings - that's something else entirely and I'd say that that's a definite no-no that would most likely cause offense to a veteran or serving personnel - and I know that's not we're about here. I have a friend who serves as an officer in the RCAF and his comment was that a certain amount of sacrifice (time/distance/relationships/risk) is involved with obtaining rank and I get that.
But I read that all AAF gear was to be officially stenciled with the generic AAF symbol, so it's appropriate to an A2.
Personally, I think that as long as the insignia is limited to 40's era patches and stencils etc - and nothing that could be mistaken as current - I think it's a fine way to remember those dark days and honour those who served.
But that's just me.
a2jacketpatches
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I'll be restoring an original A2 patched, painted, with leather wings and decal starting today as requested by the original owner / WW2 Pilot. The jacket is in outstanding condition but the paint has flaked quite a bit on most everything, back art, Squadron Patch, and Wings. So the vet asked for me to freshen things up and restore it to match the condition of the jacket. I'll be applying a new decal as the old one is almost nonexistent, just a couple of letters remain. I'm sure that most here will probably frown upon this restoration, and I wouldn't do it if an original I found out on the hunt. But this is a vet request who plans it to remain in the family forever, and the children are behind him on it.
My opinion about a decal, patch, or any other embellishment is just as you'd expect, patch it up if you so desire. You're the guy wearing it and there's really no harm if you didn't earn it. In fact, you are preserving history by offering a short story to whoever might ask about it. Most have no idea and will see it as just another leather jacket otherwise.
Anyway, I'll be photographing the restoration in detail including the application of the decal and will post it here. I have a theory that using some scale model decal setting solution might eliminate some of the common problems associated with the process. I bought an extra decal and will do the experiment on some of JC's / Goodwear russet goat because of the extremely pebbled grain. If it works on this leather it'll work on anything.
My opinion about a decal, patch, or any other embellishment is just as you'd expect, patch it up if you so desire. You're the guy wearing it and there's really no harm if you didn't earn it. In fact, you are preserving history by offering a short story to whoever might ask about it. Most have no idea and will see it as just another leather jacket otherwise.
Anyway, I'll be photographing the restoration in detail including the application of the decal and will post it here. I have a theory that using some scale model decal setting solution might eliminate some of the common problems associated with the process. I bought an extra decal and will do the experiment on some of JC's / Goodwear russet goat because of the extremely pebbled grain. If it works on this leather it'll work on anything.
I take all the above points. Personally I feel comfortable with the AAF decal & have kind of grown up with it from my Alpha MA1s. As Stand By states 'its generic'. Anything more historically specific than the AAF decal & I start to feel uncomfortable. I had my A2 "meat-balled" about a year ago & feel it enhanced the jacket. I much prefer paint to cloth or leather.
My M422A is being paint patched (hopefully) at the moment in a 40s Naval style but nothing historic & not too much paint.. I'll feel OK with that and the paint will be 'weathered' to match the jacket. If you fancy a meatball, I say go for it.
My M422A is being paint patched (hopefully) at the moment in a 40s Naval style but nothing historic & not too much paint.. I'll feel OK with that and the paint will be 'weathered' to match the jacket. If you fancy a meatball, I say go for it.
majormajor
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Here's a roundel I painted on one of mine, a good few years ago, now....
Dixon Cannon
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Which prompts the question... does anyone know of a manufactured, well cut stencil of the USAAF meatball that one can use to airbrush the symbol onto leather? I bought the decals but, first of all, the 'U.S. Army Air Force' came in BLACK...not white! Secondly, I'm not sure that a decal is actually going to last long on a leather jacket after it dries, chips and peels. There must be a precision cut stencil that one can use to apply the colors using an airbrush - any suggestions?
On topic, devilish, don't worry your head about wearing logos and symbols of the old USAAF, including rank and wings... it's no different that any Civil War reenactor. Furthermore, many old vets have expressed to me their joy in seeing their "Air Force" celebrated by an interested younger generation - and believe me most of them will enjoy telling you of their war stories. It's a celebration, not an impersonation! -dixon cannon
On topic, devilish, don't worry your head about wearing logos and symbols of the old USAAF, including rank and wings... it's no different that any Civil War reenactor. Furthermore, many old vets have expressed to me their joy in seeing their "Air Force" celebrated by an interested younger generation - and believe me most of them will enjoy telling you of their war stories. It's a celebration, not an impersonation! -dixon cannon
Brettafett
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Agree with all. I think it looks cool. Ever since the Great Escape, I wanted one like Mr Hilts. Got one, but then felt too dressed up...
Personally prefer a 'clean' jacket.
Personally prefer a 'clean' jacket.
On my way home last night, some other thoughts struck me....
I would say that, we here on the FL, we appreciate details (like tasting and knowing the difference between Pepsi and Coke)- just as most people wouldn't know/care about the differences there, they'd care even less about the makers of A2's and just see an A2, but we do.
I would say that there are also a plethora of differences in AAF designs - and I would recommend hunting for just that right one - the one that, for whatever reason, appeals.
The vintage AAF patches out there vary immensely - in size (diameters like 2 3/4" to almost 5"), the materials vary (leather, cotton, silk), some have borders and others do not and some of those borders can be colourfully braided, some have no meatball, most do, and some variations (USAAF HQ) have the meatballs that are oversized. Some have variations in the colours (I had one where the blue was actually two-tone) and the actual design can be neat and fine or a little thick. Some have a number of the air force incorporated into them. Lots of choice!!!
My other thought was that I'd be okay with putting wings on the jacket if the nametag I put on the A2 was of an actual veteran. I once saw a mint unissued leather nametag that belonged to a 15th AF pilot who was killed in action over Italy and there was some info on him. I thought that, if I had that on my jacket, I'd be okay putting his rank and some wings on the A2 - as I wouldn't be taking credit for anything - HE would and he'd be remembered and celebrated as others rightly state here.
But I would heartily recommend hunting high and low (and that's fun!) for that right patch that somehow "speaks" to you and looks "just right".
Good hunting!
I would say that, we here on the FL, we appreciate details (like tasting and knowing the difference between Pepsi and Coke)- just as most people wouldn't know/care about the differences there, they'd care even less about the makers of A2's and just see an A2, but we do.
I would say that there are also a plethora of differences in AAF designs - and I would recommend hunting for just that right one - the one that, for whatever reason, appeals.
The vintage AAF patches out there vary immensely - in size (diameters like 2 3/4" to almost 5"), the materials vary (leather, cotton, silk), some have borders and others do not and some of those borders can be colourfully braided, some have no meatball, most do, and some variations (USAAF HQ) have the meatballs that are oversized. Some have variations in the colours (I had one where the blue was actually two-tone) and the actual design can be neat and fine or a little thick. Some have a number of the air force incorporated into them. Lots of choice!!!
My other thought was that I'd be okay with putting wings on the jacket if the nametag I put on the A2 was of an actual veteran. I once saw a mint unissued leather nametag that belonged to a 15th AF pilot who was killed in action over Italy and there was some info on him. I thought that, if I had that on my jacket, I'd be okay putting his rank and some wings on the A2 - as I wouldn't be taking credit for anything - HE would and he'd be remembered and celebrated as others rightly state here.
But I would heartily recommend hunting high and low (and that's fun!) for that right patch that somehow "speaks" to you and looks "just right".
Good hunting!
a2jacketpatches
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You got something there, with the variety of cloth, paint, bullion, etc. your personal taste should be the choice. I do believe that the decal was applied to reissued jackets that were depot redyed anyway. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think they came out of the factory new that way. And few decals if any were applied to a brand new issued jacket by the GI.
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And you rightly mention bullion - and of course, that's another variation to consider (and I've seen some with black backgrounds and silver bullion - and not the usual blue with gold/brass bullion).
I'd recommend buying a few books on A2 jackets - like Art Of The Flight jacket by Maquire, and looking them all over and seeing which one appeals - and determining why that one or few has/have that elusive "cool factor" you want.
And if it's bullion, I'd mention that the threads can be a bit friable - which shouldn't necessarily put you off - I fixed that on a bullion pair I had with an application of super-thin cyanoacrylate (super glue). Your local hobby store will have some for sure. Do be careful though as it's like water and, with the capillary action along the threads, you can easily bond your fingers before you know it's on you. Just apply it carefully.
But it works a treat and is totally invisible - and your bullion won't fray. Ever.
Otter
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I do not advise reading that book........ever! you just end up coming away with too many ideas and before you know it you have ordered an ETO nightfighter squadron jacket.:>
1961MJS
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Hi
There's stuff called Fray Check, sold in Hancock Fabrics etc that does the same thing. I'm betting super glue works better on a Bullion patch though. I put Fray check on my Gold / black campaign hat cord, the first one I bought years ago frayed and unwound in less than 24 hours of wear time.
Later
Thanks for the input so far folks. One thing I wanted to clear up is, it would only be a proper water transfer type decal. No patches, cloth, leather or otherwise. I don't care if it starts to rub off, in fact, I'd prefer it. I was going to check the dates and accuracy of when the decals would have been applied. The Dubow 20960 is a 1941 contract so I'm guessing the originals weren't issued with one but could always have been added at some point.
Here is the jacket in question.
Here is the by now famous picture that serves as my main inspiration. I think the jacket with the decal just looks more 'complete' somehow.
Finally, this is where JC recommended to get a decal from, funnily enough I'd picked this place out as well.
http://www.mash-japan.co.jp/oversea/eng_moc/collection/aaf_decal_wet/fullkit_eng.html
Here is the jacket in question.
Here is the by now famous picture that serves as my main inspiration. I think the jacket with the decal just looks more 'complete' somehow.
Finally, this is where JC recommended to get a decal from, funnily enough I'd picked this place out as well.
http://www.mash-japan.co.jp/oversea/eng_moc/collection/aaf_decal_wet/fullkit_eng.html
Ah, you're so right about that book.
As a result of it, I've already got my patches for the next jacket lined up - so I just need the jacket at some point ! I suppose that's putting the cart before the horses - but who cares? It's got to start somewhere!
I think our wives and girlfriends should consider themselves lucky. I mean, unlike most blokes who secretly hoard porn, we're secretly drooling over jackets and patches. "Oh, look at the embroidery on that one ... Nice tailoring. Wow ..." !! It's so innocent.
And as it's actually a decal we're discussing (thanks for clarifying that), looking at the before-and-after comparison photos, I'd say the jacket looks more finished to me with the AAF decal - most definitely.
Decal away !
As a result of it, I've already got my patches for the next jacket lined up - so I just need the jacket at some point ! I suppose that's putting the cart before the horses - but who cares? It's got to start somewhere!
I think our wives and girlfriends should consider themselves lucky. I mean, unlike most blokes who secretly hoard porn, we're secretly drooling over jackets and patches. "Oh, look at the embroidery on that one ... Nice tailoring. Wow ..." !! It's so innocent.
And as it's actually a decal we're discussing (thanks for clarifying that), looking at the before-and-after comparison photos, I'd say the jacket looks more finished to me with the AAF decal - most definitely.
Decal away !
Otter
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Dervish, as far as I recall the Mash Japan decal got a good name, but is not inexpensive! There was a long thread about it a year or so ago over on Vintage Leather Jackets if you are amember there.
Stand By, my next is going to be a 509th Composite group patch for my ELC Roughwear B-15, it currently has a horrible Breitling patch on it.
Stand By, my next is going to be a 509th Composite group patch for my ELC Roughwear B-15, it currently has a horrible Breitling patch on it.
I think that, if one is going to the expense of a repro jacket - as we do - I don't see anything wrong in splurging on a patch or decal of some expense. Why spoil the jacket with anything less?
And that group sure has a great patch, Otter.
You're interested in this one?
http://www.flyingtigerantiques.com/...e=fta&Product_Code=afsq31058bw&Category_Code=
Nice twill. It'd look great on the twill of a B-15 ....
The other design is nice too ... if you can find it! Ah, the thrill of the hunt ....
http://www.flyingtigerantiques.com/...uct_Code=z99afsq90509cg&Category_Code=03afsq3
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