A2s in the Jet Age

[Deacon211]

Glad to be of whatever service I can!

Oh, I meant to tell a brief story that I thought would be a bit illustrative.

I remember when I was in Japan, hearing of a Tomcat crew that had to divert to the beach after they couldn't get aboard the carrier. It seemed that they commonly got to wearing only their dry suits when they flew off the ship. It cut down on bulk, didn't affect their warmth any and, since they were just going from their flight equipment shop to the aircraft, didn't raise any particular eyebrows.

The only problem was, when they diverted to Osan AB for the night (normally a good deal because they got off the ship) they basically showed up on base wearing nothing but their underwear and had to be transported to the BOQ where they were essentially restricted since they had not a stitch of uniform between them. I'm thinking that they at least threw a flight suit under the ejection seat from then on!

 

[Treetopflyer]

Treetopflyer, it's interesting that other communities were more broad in their interpretation of the leather jacket wear. Certainly there was no less of a chance of flash fire in a helo than in a jet. I also saw the C-130 guys wear their jackets pretty commonly showing that the rules were pretty non-standard.

That has often been a topic of discussion in the squadrons I have been in. When I was the Safety Officer in my last squadron, a Junior Officer tried to explain to me that wearing the leather jacket in the cockpit was not allowed. I asked him to find it in writing that it was not allowed. He couldn't find any instruction stating that wearing it was prohibited in the aircraft.

At Training Wing 5 in Milton, FL, they had an instruction that stated leather jackets were not authorized in the aircraft. Unless TRAWING FIVE was your ISIC, that rule did not apply to the rest of the Fleet. A lot of Aviators think that because it was in that instruction, it must be a Fleet wide rule.

I personally think they did not want students to wear their leather jackets in the cockpit so the jackets wouldn't get damaged, in case they washed out of the program and had to give them back for reissue. I have a friend who's jacket is a reissue. Good thing he is not superstitious. I am not sure I would have accepted it knowing the last guy that wore it washed out.

 

[Brettafett]

Oh, and I've been seriously thinking of building this...

http://www.airdromeaeroplanes.com/sopwithpup.html

+1

 

[Deacon211]

That has often been a topic of discussion in the squadrons I have been in. When I was the Safety Officer in my last squadron, a Junior Officer tried to explain to me that wearing the leather jacket in the cockpit was not allowed. I asked him to find it in writing that it was not allowed. He couldn't find any instruction stating that wearing it was prohibited in the aircraft.

At Training Wing 5 in Milton, FL, they had an instruction that stated leather jackets were not authorized in the aircraft. Unless TRAWING FIVE was your ISIC, that rule did not apply to the rest of the Fleet. A lot of Aviators think that because it was in that instruction, it must be a Fleet wide rule.

I personally think they did not want students to wear their leather jackets in the cockpit so the jackets wouldn't get damaged, in case they washed out of the program and had to give them back for reissue. I have a friend who's jacket is a reissue. Good thing he is not superstitious. I am not sure I would have accepted it knowing the last guy that wore it washed out.

Well, it doesn't really surprise me that it's not prohibited in writing. In my day, Underarmor shirts weren't prohibited by reg either. Yet it was commonly understood that these were not the best things to wear in the cockpit...and so most people didn't with the helpful advice of the Safety Center.

In that vein, I'm inclined to disagree that the prohibition of wearing your leather flight jacket in the cockpit in TW-5 was a cost saving measure of some sort. As I mentioned above, the guy at Flight Equipment Issue told me that he is often required to destroy surplus jackets. That doesn't sound much like they are in short supply.

The reason for not wearing your G-1 in the cockpit in my community was always presented fairly straightforwardly. The G-1 just wasn't built with any thought of fire resistance in mind. The cuffs were blends, as was the collar and lining. If the jacket was exposed to enough heat, the cuffs would melt or burn, just like the Nylon jackets the Nomex models replaced. Did people occasionally wear them in the jet on a particularly cold day? Sure. It might earn you a lecture from the Safety Officer but, like rolling up your sleeves, or wearing your mask dangling, Top Gun style, it was your own behind in the end and so a big deal wasn't made of it.

But I've always thought the jet community was more anal about such things than the prop or helo side. I saw far more Cobra and Herc drivers in their G-1s and non-steel toed flight boots than Hornet or Harrier guys. Maybe it was because you spent half your life trussed up like John Glenn, ever ready to pull the handle.

Anyway, considering that I spent my follow on career wearing polyester pants and a short sleeved shirt, it's clear that the Nomex bias is by no means universal. Still, between the perceived safety shortcomings of the jacket and the discomfort of squeezing one under your torso harness, I seldom found most ejection seat guys wearing it in the cockpit.

 

[Stearmen]

About refurbished A2 jackets being reissued during Korea. I new quite a few men who became pilots from 48-53, non of them were issued an A2. One said he saw some, but they were all odd ball sizes, like 44-46, which would not fit the lean pilots of that time. I wonder if any of those were finally surplussed?

 

[Monsoon]

My experience with jackets, survival equipment, and whatnot. Of course, this is AFSOC ANG, so YMMV.

1. Leather jackets. We wore them for home station flying but not combat. No sure what the regs said, but that's how we rolled. The leather jacket wasn't that warm to wear, so I'd rather wear my nomex. And there's always worrying about theft.

2. Survival gear. That was all kept on the ramp; theory was we'd have time to get it before jumping. Again, this is home station flying; we figured that we'd be able to make it back to land anyway, and there's about a billion runways we can use on the East Coast.

Combat was a different story. Some guys wore their vest, some kept them draped over the seat. Same with sidearms. Me, I kept my vest over the seat and my weapon in a pack. The pack had some carabiners on it that I could attach it to my parachute harness before I jumped. My chute was next to me.

3. Boots, etc. Jungle boots were a no-go. Too many horror stories of guys screwing up their feet running thru flames wearing jungle boots. We wore leather flight boots. Underwear was cotton; we had a hell of a time getting issued cotton tan t-shirts thru supply even after showing them the regs. I just bought some of my own until we were issued them. Underarmor or polypro stuff was also a no-go. It melts. Women had the same deal; cotton underwear and bras.

4. Helmets. Rarely wore mine, unless we had some O2 problem or smoke/fumes. Same with body armor. I think I wore it once when we had to land in Iraq. Most of time time it was under my seat. Or if you were spotting, we'd put it on the jump door (until we got armor that was made to fit).

 

[Deacon211]

Thanks Monsoon, that was interesting.

I always find it funny that every community and every service has it's own flavor. Things that are of the utmost importance to one, might rate a "meh" in another.

 

[bn1966]

Thanks for that Monsoon, interesting & informative...much appreciated.

 

[Monsoon]

Man, you should hear my dad talk about flying in the old days. He flew as a flight engineer on helicopters off Okinawa during Korea. His first mission was picking up some guys that ditched off the coast while they were doing local flying. The pilots were in khakis and low quarter shoes and he was wearing fatigue pants, boondockers and a tshirt.

 

[morrison2951]

My dad, rest his soul, had great stories about his time in Okinawa as a B-29 tail gunner.

I miss him everyday.

 

[Monsoon]

My dad had a chance to fly as a B29 gunner but came down with the flu and a friend flew instead.

He was pretty shook up when he got back. Dad asked him why and he said something flew past real fast and scared the crap out of him.

 

[Smithy]

Here's F-86 Sabre pilot Capt. James Horowitz (later Salter) of the 335th FIS at Kimpo in 1952 wearing an A-2 which he was issued towards the end of WWII over his flight suit (probably an L-1).

I have this photo in B&W in a few books so it was nice to find this image in colour, albeit a small version.

 

[Doctor Damage]

sources:
http://www.352ndfightergroup.com/assoc/main.html
http://acepilots.com/korea_aces.html

 

[Doctor Damage]

Modern jet age use of A2s (from USAF gallery). Huge photos.

 

[Deacon211]

That first guy is a jarhead in his G-1.

I'm glad that the Air Force brought back their A-2s. It's such an iconic jacket.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Doctor Damage]

That first guy is a jarhead in his G-1.

Good point!

Here's a modern A-2 worn by a slightly pudgy technical sergeant:

 

[Doctor Damage]

You can download the official 1995 specs for "Jacket, Flyers, A-2, Leather" here from the DLA website:
(click on the tiny PDF symbol that says "base document")

http://quicksearch.dla.mil/qsDocDetails.aspx?ident_number=115467