A2 Jacket Advice

[Superfluous]

The guy is angry as his income depends on leather jackets that he sells online and the fedora lounge outerware section is a major if not the biggest outlet. Honestly, I’d be angry too if someone would call my business practice disgusting thus steering potential customers away. Should he let go and don’t care? Maybe, maybe not. I don’t know how I would react if my mortgage payments would be affected.

TFL is a discussion forum. The Outerwear section is focused on the discussion of jackets and those who manufacturer them. In order for the discussion to be useful and informative, both positive and negative experiences and opinions must be discussed.

I cannot think of single jacket manufacturer that has not be subjected to negative discussion and adverse opinions on TFL. The honor and righteousness of the manufacturer is often revealed in how it responds to the negative comments and adverse opinions.

All manufacturers occasionally falter. Righteous, honorable manufacturers learn from their mistakes and the resulting negative comments / opinions, and correct the underlying issues that gave rise to the negative discussion / opinions. I have seen it many times here on TFL. Negative opinions and/or experiences are shared, and the subject manufacturer acts to correct the problem. The manufacturer does not disparage the member sharing the negative opinion, nor threaten to sue the member. Instead, the manufacturer addresses and resolves the underlying problem; and, in so doing, the manufacturer exhibits honor, integrity, and righteousness that advances and increases its business.

Unfortunately, Bill Kelso has repeatedly pursued a strikingly different approach. Bill Kelso has repeatedly disparaged, and threatened to sue, those who share negative opinions or experiences with the company. In my humble opinion, that is utterly reprehensible and Bill Kelso should not be surprised when those affected call out BK for its conduct.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Why do some still stick up for BK..?? "Well they treat/treated me nice," as if everyone else must be exaggerating or simply do not matter. Just don't publicly display any displeasure with BK or the tide might turn dramatically. If you have any problems with an order you may suffer their wrath that it was definitely your fault. Several years ago on this forum they dressed down and belittled a customer who was a member here. He had terrible customer service..and that was the beginning of BK's reputation. It went on from there, cutting on other manufacturers jackets with a quite arrogant approach that was unusual to say the least.

Hopefully no one here will have any displeasure with a BK order. Often they don't like that annoyance and the post are still here to prove it.

 

[Monitor]

This stuff would be hilarious if it wasn't downright scary! Those emails you guys are getting, that's some seriously demented stuff. I mean, downright psychotic. What kind of people work there!? How can they be so incredibly stupid!? Maybe they're doing some kinda insurance fraud thing, like when you'd set fire to your property? I mean, nobody is that stupid to actually... Do that to their own company!

 

[Sloan1874]

And let's not forget the rash of homophobic postings from BK on its FB page. All sorts of classiness there too...

 

[Mich486]

TFL is a discussion forum. The Outerwear section is focused on the discussion of jackets and those who manufacturer them. In order for the discussion to be useful and informative, both positive and negative experiences and opinions must be discussed.

I cannot think of single jacket manufacturer that has not be subjected to negative discussion and adverse opinions on TFL. The honor and righteousness of the manufacturer is often revealed in how it responds to the negative comments and adverse opinions.

All manufacturers occasionally falter. Righteous, honorable manufacturers learn from their mistakes and the resulting negative comments / opinions, and correct the underlying issues that gave rise to the negative discussion / opinions. I have seen it many times here on TFL. Negative opinions and/or experiences are shared, and the subject manufacturer acts to correct the problem. The manufacturer does not disparage the member sharing the negative opinion, nor threaten to sue the member. Instead, the manufacturer addresses and resolves the underlying problem; and, in so doing, the manufacturer exhibits honor, integrity, and righteousness that advances and increases its business.

Unfortunately, Bill Kelso has repeatedly pursued a strikingly different approach. Bill Kelso has repeatedly disparaged, and threatened to sue, those who share negative opinions or experiences with the company. In my humble opinion, that is utterly reprehensible and Bill Kelso should not be surprised when those affected call out BK for its conduct.

Of course negative feedbacks are welcome! Otherwise this place would become an echo chamber.

Reading the various posts though it seems to me like you don’t lose any occasion to poke him. Tell me if my wrong You know how the guy reacts so what do you expect? Is this righteous and honourable?




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[Sloan1874]

Actually, BK doesn't come up on the Lounge very often nowadays. Back in the day the were all over it, more often than not denigrating other makers or bragging about their latest leather (so much better than the horrible stuff they'd used on previous jackets). Anyone who dared to question or gainsay BK usually found themselves getting yelled at on the forum by them or receiving private messages from them threatening bogus legal action (so no change there then). No one should be surprised that the very mention of them elicits a very specific type of response around here, one that I suspect only mentions of Simmons Bilt beat!

 

[Superfluous]

Reading the various posts though it seems to me like you don’t lose any occasion to poke him. Tell me if my wrong

Respectfully, you are wrong. I have been making a concerted effort to disregard general posts and generic inquires regarding BK. For example, there is a new TFL member who has recently made the exact some post, in several different threads, about his forthcoming BK jacket. While I suspect that he may be a shill, I have remained tight lipped. Likewise, I did not respond when the OP posted his inquiry to begin this thread. Rather, I only responded after Andy / BK threatened to sue @Carlos840 for sharing his negative opinion. At this point, BK's conduct escalated to a new level -- a level for which I am well acquainted given BK's prior threats to sue me. BK drew first blood and invited the harsh rebuke. Had BK not threatened Carlos, I would have stayed clear of this thread.

Do a search of Bill Kelso -- you will see that I do not respond to the vast majority of the posts about the company and its jackets. Rather, I only respond when: (1) Bill Kelso undertakes yet another campaign of threats and/or disparagement; or (2) I have very specific experience directly responsive to an inquiry.

Bill Kelso opened the door by viciously threatening a fellow member of this community. Yes, I came to his defense and, in so doing, shared my candid opinions regarding BK's conduct. I make no apologies for this. Unfortunately, BK's tactics, and the resulting specter of being sued by BK, have likely silenced other members.

 

[Innocenti Kid]

Respectfully, you are wrong. I have been making a concerted effort to disregard general posts and generic inquires regarding BK. For example, there is a new TFL member who has recently made the exact some post, in several different threads, about his forthcoming BK jacket. While I suspect that he may be a shill, I have remained tight lipped. Likewise, I did not respond when the OP posted his inquiry to begin this thread. Rather, I only responded after Andy / BK threatened to sue @Carlos840 for sharing his negative opinion. At this point, BK's conduct escalated to a new level -- a level for which I am well acquainted given BK's prior threats to sue me. BK drew first blood and invited the harsh rebuke. Had BK not threatened Carlos, I would have stayed clear of this thread.

Do a search of Bill Kelso -- you will see that I do not respond to the vast majority of the posts about the company and its jackets. Rather, I only respond when: (1) Bill Kelso undertakes yet another campaign of threats and/or disparagement; or (2) I have very specific experience directly responsive to an inquiry.

Bill Kelso opened the door by viciously threatening a fellow member of this community. Yes, I came to his defense and, in so doing, shared my candid opinions regarding BK's conduct. I make no apologies for this. Unfortunately, BK's tactics, and the resulting specter of being sued by BK, have likely silenced other members.

If you mean me I'm not (a shill).

 

[Mich486]

Oh wow now if somebody has a BK jacket on order is a shill.


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[Superfluous]

Oh wow now if somebody has a BK jacket on order is a shill.

Mich, please do not mischaracterize my words. You are better than that.

I did not say that "if somebody has a BK jacket on order [he] is a shill." Rather, I observed that one particular new member "made the exact same post, in several different threads, about his forthcoming BK jacket." The mere existence of the order is not what caught my eye. Rather, what caught my eye was that this new member appeared to cut and paste the exact some post about his BK jacket in many different threads. Over the years, there have been many shills who joined TFL for the primary purpose of espousing a particular manufacturer. Thus, based on his repetitive, identical posts about BK (not merely his order), I considered that this new member might be a shill (might being the operative word). I did not make a definitive determination, nor did I even share my observations about this particular new member, because his repetitive, identical posts about his forthcoming BK jacket, without more, did not warrant any conclusion or judgment about his motives. Thus, contrary to your false assertion, I did not conclude that "if somebody has a BK jacket on order [he] is a shill."

Going forward, please be more careful when characterizing my posts.

Thank you.

 

[Mich486]

I don’t believe I’m mischaracterising your post at all. You wrote that a person posted in more than a discussion that he has a BK jacket on order and hence you think he is likely a shill. These are your words. I think this is a little paranoid and quite frankly offensive towards that person. I think you are also better than that.

Anyway I’m not entering a war of words with you, I’m here for the jackets although sometime I get carried away by these discussions. My original intention was to say that people shouldn’t be too surprised in my mind if BK reacts the way he reacts as he has a financial interest which is put at risk by some kind of posts.

Peace


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[Innocenti Kid]

Mich, please do not mischaracterize my words. You are better than that.

I did not say that "if somebody has a BK jacket on order [he] is a shill." Rather, I observed that one particular new member "made the exact same post, in several different threads, about his forthcoming BK jacket." The mere existence of the order is not what caught my eye. Rather, what caught my eye was that this new member appeared to cut and paste the exact some post about his BK jacket in many different threads. Over the years, there have been many shills who joined TFL for the primary purpose of espousing a particular manufacturer. Thus, based on his repetitive, identical posts about BK (not merely his order), I considered that this new member might be a shill (might being the operative word). I did not make a definitive determination, nor did I even share my observations about this particular new member, because his repetitive, identical posts about his forthcoming BK jacket, without more, did not warrant any conclusion or judgment about his motives. Thus, contrary to your false assertion, I did not conclude that "if somebody has a BK jacket on order [he] is a shill."

Going forward, please be more careful when characterizing my posts.

Thank you.

Ha you do mean me. Yeah I mentioned it in a couple of posts... and I cut n pasted cos I'm a lazy git and like to type as little as poss. Any way sorry if it's bad form to repeat myself i'm just excited (about the jacket) that's all. First time I've spent this much on a leather and I looked at several Mfgs before I decided to go with BK so I'm very anxious that I haven't made a mistake. And seeing all this today is made me wonder. I hope not!

 

[Boyo]

From my where I stand the head-scratching part is I've seen some really nice looking Bill Kelso Jackets posted and actually owned a really nice used one for a short time (didnt fit me well & was sold) If they just let their products do the talking and not lost their Shit every time one was criticized they would have a bunch more fans here and on other forums

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Can't figure where you are coming from Mich. Do you know anything about BK's history and antics on this forum? Poking him..? Hell BK has brought all this on themselves. As far as I know they were kicked off this forum years ago...but still monitor it searching for any critics to threaten. They know how most members feel about them here yet are ever ready to send hostile emails. I doubt if they have or expect many customers from the FL.
HD

 

[ProteinNerd]

Its such a shame as BK do make a REALLY nice looking jacket, it could be a great option for people that prefer a lighter hide.

However, their continued insistence that, regardless of what you look for in a leather jacket, their hide is the single best hide in the world (even if you want a super heavy CXL etc) and that every other leather jacket maker in the world is inferior to them....its just childish for lack of a better description. Add to that the repeated threats of legal action.....seriously?

Honestly Andy, you don't see Mercedes insulting BMW, or Apple insulting Samsung. Companies that insult the competition just put a bad taste in your potential customers mouth, plus I'd hazard to guess that the majority of your customers have probably already purchased from one of these other manufacturers in the past, your effectively insulting them.

It's perfectly reasonable for a business or company to promote the quality of their own product without having to "brand bash" other companies. There is a big yet subtle difference between "We have sourced what we feel is the most accurate leather and refined our patterns to make the best quality reproduction A2 available", than (off your website) "TYPE A-2 jackets produced are more accurate and close to the originals than those of any other manufacturer worldwide, including Japan."

Why are you even talking about your competition on your own website? Just focus on you.

 

[Superfluous]

Ha you do mean me. Yeah I mentioned it in a couple of posts... and I cut n pasted cos I'm a lazy git and like to type as little as poss. Any way sorry if it's bad form to repeat myself i'm just excited (about the jacket) that's all. First time I've spent this much on a leather and I looked at several Mfgs before I decided to go with BK so I'm very anxious that I haven't made a mistake. And seeing all this today is made me wonder. I hope not!

First and foremost, welcome to TFL. I had no intention of identifying you by name. Moreover, I do NOT believe that you are a shill. In retrospect, I should not have referenced your duplicative posts in this thread. I apologize. You did nothing wrong and have nothing to apologize about. I genuinely hope that you enjoy your new BK jacket. Please post a review.

 

[Innocenti Kid]

First and foremost, welcome to TFL. I had no intention of identifying you by name. Moreover, I do NOT believe that you are a shill. In retrospect, I should not have referenced your duplicative posts in this thread. I apologize. You did nothing wrong and have nothing to apologize about. I genuinely hope that you enjoy your new BK jacket. Please post a review.

Hey no problem ! And thank you! I won't mention it again till I've got it in my hands!

 

[Sloan1874]

"TYPE A-2 jackets produced are more accurate and close to the originals than those of any other manufacturer worldwide, including Japan."

John Chapman: "Here, hold my beer!"

 

[Big J]

Wow. Just wow.

I go to bed and wake up to this!

I agree with Superfluous, Sloan, HD, Carlos and others.

I have seen nice looking BK jackets reviewed on the Lounge. But the sheer weight of BK/Andy harassment horror stories has always made it just not worth the bother for me.

If Carlos wants me to chip in some bucks for his defense fund, PM me! (Superfluous can represent himself for free I guess!).

But yeah, sure, I'll start using my real name so Andy can stalk me better? Duh, yeah ok. That's a real clever idea right there. Stupid is as stupid does...

 

[srahimian24]

This blew up rather quickly I must say