A2 Help please -- Goodwear, D.D. and more!

[OliverTwist]

I'm new to custom flight jackets, but a friend of mine who resides in Italy sent me a text several weeks ago with pictures of a motorcycle jacket that he had made by Diamond Dave and mentioned that he came recommended via this forum. I visited his website and decided on a combat finish horsehide Aero model W535ac21996 repro and I eagerly pulled the trigger on it last night.

As I woke up this morning and excitedly began searching the forum for photos of similar flight jackets and comments re. construction, fit, etc., I began to dig up lots of critical posts about custom leather jackets that Dave had made for numerous people on the board; issues related to fit, incorrect measurements, sloppy detailing, etc.

I also got hip to Goodwear. I'm flipping through their website right now and I'm admittedly somewhat overwhelmed by all of the different models and styles of WWII-era A2s available. I'm concerned about my purchase with Dave. I'm not sure whether to see it through or to apologize for jumping the gun and transition to Goodwear instead. I take it that the cost difference for a horsehide jacket is roughly $500 between both makers. That's not a deal-breaker for me.

While I'm typically compulsive about detail, I'm not entirely versed in old military stock flight jackets. I am after a genuine-looking reproduction however, and I am definitely a stickler when it comes to fit.

I'm really on the fence with how to proceed -- I've submitted payment for Dave's jacket and I've chatted with him briefly over Facebook due to our mutual connection, however I've yet to send over any measurements or sizing info. Nothing has gone into production as of yet. I'm also not entirely confident in the combat finish. I really like the russet color but I think I'm leaning more towards the finish on the GW horsehides. I don't even know where to begin with those though...

I'd really appreciate some feedback. My initial reaction was to give Dave a chance as I have read that he's come a long way and he admittedly did a beautiful job with my friend's Buco motorcycle jacket, but my gut tells me to go with the GW as the apparent benchmark in quality; at least from what I've gathered on this forum. I also want to be diplomatic about whatever decision I make, so as not to hurt anyone's feelings.

Could you please offer your input and suggestions?

Thank you so much!

The jacket in question: http://www.diamondclothingco.com/#!acme-leather-depot-a-2/c5ro

 

[OliverTwist]

I should also mention, in case it wasn't glaringly obvious, that this would be my first "adult" leather jacket. I had a cheap thrifted Brando knockoff in corrected grain some decades back, in my less-discerning longhair teenage years.

I typically wear vintage Clicker style coats for casual wear (Lakeland, Woolrich, etc) or a Gloverall duffel purchased in Japan. I also have an old Inveretere Buffer with contrast wool shawl collar. I wear mid century harringtons or poplin golf style jackets in warmer months and a custom knee-length Grenfell oyster colored rain mac in stormy weather. My "dressed up" look is typically a fly-front 1950's new old stock ragalan sleeved tweed overcoat. I'm mostly draped in old unstructured sack jackets with vintage Brooks Brothers or m.t.o. Mercer button downs and O'Connell's trousers, dress chinos or army twills. Imperial longwings or cordovan/scotch grain plain toe bluchers anchoring it all down. Old stock Weejuns or Quoddy moccasins for the most casual of days; often with a J.Press Shetland. I suppose I lean towards classic American full-cut form in most of my dress; my closet is mostly filled with c.'56-65 vintage, and a few spattering of contemporary articles from O'Connell's or the Andover Shop. I'm not sure if any of this is the least bit relevant or helpful, but it should offer some context towards "aesthetic", for what that's worth. I suppose none of this has to do with flight jackets, which is really what this thread should be about. I don't mean to divert focus...

If you were in my shoes, what direction would you follow?

 

[Jägernaut]

I've not read a single negative comment about Dave's A2's. That doesn't mean much considering I've never researched A2's but I should have run across some thread titles at some point regarding it. If you can afford the GW, you should go with that.

 

[Fanch]

I think a number of us are sitting in front of the computer scratching our collective heads, trying to formulate a response to what is a very complex question. W535ac21996 Aero 27 October 1941 is simply an A-2 contract with a specific pattern. Your biggest issue is determining how to proceed with a jacket that fits you correctly, which issue trumps almost everything else. A beautiful, well constructed jacket that doesn't fit is far less acceptable than one with one questionable details that does fit.

Since you are starting new and probably have no clue as to which size to order, the best option open to you would be a fit jacket from whomever you place an order if that is feasible, and then proceed from there. Keep in mind there is, I think, a two-year wait with GW should you decide to proceed in that direction, although there seems to be universal agreement everywhere that John Chapman is incredibly accurate to fine detail. I'm certain that others will chime in to further confuse you.

 

[OliverTwist]

I think a number of us are sitting in front of the computer scratching our collective heads, trying to formulate a response to what is a very complex question. W535ac21996 Aero 27 October 1941 is simply an A-2 contract with a specific pattern. Your biggest issue is determining how to proceed with a jacket that fits you correctly, which issue trumps almost everything else. A beautiful, well constructed jacket that doesn't fit is far less acceptable than one with one with questionable details that does fit.

Since you are starting new and probably have no clue as to which size to order, the best option open to you would be a fit jacket from whomever you place an order if that is feasible, and then proceed from there. Keep in mind there is, I think, a two-year wait with GW should you decide to proceed in that direction, although there seems to be almost universal agreement everywhere that John Chapman is incredibly accurate to fine detail. I'm certain that others will chime in to further confuse you.

Thank you very much. You've solved my problem.

Based on what you're telling me, particularly with regards to GW's turn-around, I will absolutely stick it through with Dave, haha.

Once I've hashed out the fit and gotten this one under my belt, I may look to John Chapman for a future order. It sounds like I'm off to a good start though. Perhaps I could use this thread going forward to gather recommendations on nailing the fit down (unless others have contrasting opinions) given that there's apparently been some question of accuracy and precision with respect to fit on past orders with members?

 

[Sloan1874]

I've not read a single negative comment about Dave's A2's. That doesn't mean much considering I've never researched A2's but I should have run across some thread titles at some point regarding it. If you can afford the GW, you should go with that.

I have read negative comments about DD's work here. A fair few, actually, I don't rate his work at all. If the OP has the time and patience, he should go with Good Wear.

 

[OliverTwist]

I have read negative comments about DD's work here. A fair few, actually, I don't rate his work at all. If the OP has the time and patience, he should go with Good Wear.

Have you ever had anything made by Dave before?

 

[Mark]

I have one of Dave's combat clone A2's in the same contract you have on order (in russet) and i have to say i love it. Would reccommend getting a size up from your usual size, however, best to let Dave advice you on the fit. This particular contract is quite roomy in the arms/arm holes and body but that in my opinion is a good thing as allows for a bit of layering. Stick with Dave his jackets under the guidance of John at GW are just fine.

 

[Sloan1874]

Have you ever had anything made by Dave before?

No, but plenty of people have bought stuff from him here and had to have remakes etc because of mistakes in production. Some people are okay with him, but in no way is it the majority.

 

[Sloan1874]

Have you ever had anything made by Dave before?

Try this thread for the mix: http://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/diamond-clothing-buco-j100-review.83051/

 

[Monitor]

Try this thread for the mix: http://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/diamond-clothing-buco-j100-review.83051/

Retrospectively, my only complaint is that none of my leather jackets look like that.

 

[handymike]

John Chapman is the master of A2 re-creations. He is great to talk to and makes what I believe to be the finest jackets. If you love A-2s, I recommend getting one of his (even if you fill the gap with another first). Since John is so well versed in the various nuances of the different patterns, he can make the best recommendation for your body type. That's not to say DD doesn't make nice jackets- he does.
But, John is top of the heap for this style of jacket IMHO.

 

[Technonut]

I've owned one of JC's Perry Sportswear contracts in goatskin, and the workmanship was top-shelf, as well as the hide. Unfortunately, since it was a pre-owned jacket from eBay, and the listed measurements were off, the jacket was much more roomy than expected. After successfully shrinking quite a few larger jackets down a size or two using the hot-water / hot dryer treatment over the years, I attempted it with the Perry with results unsatisfactory to me.

I sent the jacket to Steve Sellers (Greatest Generation Clothing Co) for sizing alterations, only to find that the amount of size-reduction required could not be comfortably done by Steve without extensive effort, and time. Steve expressed some interest in the Perry, and I offered to allow him to keep it in exchange for him making a Star A-2 for me, from patterns he made directly from an original. I requested the Star be made from quality steerhide, since I have seen, and liked a few original examples from that contract (as well as at least one Steer Star repro from JC) which were stated to be made of steer by knowledgeable folks with extensive period A-2 collections (it has been proven that steer was used in some original A-2 contracts).

The Star is nearing completion, with copies of the original Star Sportswear labels expected by Steve this coming week. Steve has been crafting jackets for a number of years now, and does excellent work IMO. Folks trust his work enough to send valuable originals in for repairs / alterations. Here is a pic of some he had in recently:

Here are some pics of my Star being constructed:



I'm just throwing this out there as an option for you. If you may not want to wait 2 years for a GW, it may be worth a PM to Steve (http://www.thefedoralounge.com/members/steve-s.36147/) to discuss what he may be able to do for you. I can say with certainty that customer satisfaction is of the utmost importance to him.

 

[handymike]

Steve has been knocking it outta the park with his jackets

 

[OliverTwist]

I have one of Dave's combat clone A2's in the same contract you have on order (in russet) and i have to say i love it. Would reccommend getting a size up from your usual size, however, best to let Dave advice you on the fit. This particular contract is quite roomy in the arms/arm holes and body but that in my opinion is a good thing as allows for a bit of layering. Stick with Dave his jackets under the guidance of John at GW are just fine.

Wonderful! I'm feeling very good about this now and I'm excited to hear that there's still some room for a bit of layering, as I was secretly hoping to slip a rusty or mossy colored shaggy dog underneath! I may have to lay off the bourbon for a few weeks and try to shed a few pounds before I get my hopes up though! Thanks for the boost of confidence and enthusiasm- can't wait for the finished jacket!

 

[OliverTwist]

I've owned one of JC's Perry Sportswear contracts in goatskin, and the workmanship was top-shelf, as well as the hide. Unfortunately, since it was a pre-owned jacket from eBay, and the listed measurements were off, the jacket was much more roomy than expected. After successfully shrinking quite a few larger jackets down a size or two using the hot-water / hot dryer treatment over the years, I attempted it with the Perry with results unsatisfactory to me.

I sent the jacket to Steve Sellers (Greatest Generation Clothing Co) for sizing alterations, only to find that the amount of size-reduction required could not be comfortably done by Steve without extensive effort, and time. Steve expressed some interest in the Perry, and I offered to allow him to keep it in exchange for him making a Star A-2 for me, from patterns he made directly from an original. I requested the Star be made from quality steerhide, since I have seen, and liked a few original examples from that contract (as well as at least one Steer Star repro from JC) which were stated to be made of steer by knowledgeable folks with extensive period A-2 collections (it has been proven that steer was used in some original A-2 contracts).

The Star is nearing completion, with copies of the original Star Sportswear labels expected by Steve this coming week. Steve has been crafting jackets for a number of years now, and does excellent work IMO. Folks trust his work enough to send valuable originals in for repairs / alterations. Here is a pic of some he had in recently:

View attachment 50687

Here are some pics of my Star being constructed:

View attachment 50688 View attachment 50689 View attachment 50690 View attachment 50691 View attachment 50692

I'm just throwing this out there as an option for you. If you may not want to wait 2 years for a GW, it may be worth a PM to Steve (http://www.thefedoralounge.com/members/steve-s.36147/) to discuss what he may be able to do for you. I can say with certainty that customer satisfaction is of the utmost importance to him.

Wow! Thanks very much for this info. Those steerhides do look dynamite! I'm looking forward to seeing photos and reading more details and feedback of your Star repro. I think for the sake of sportsmanship, I'm going to stick with Dave for this production, as I've already been in contact with him and sent payment, and he did do a knock-out job on my friend's Buco jacket recently. The post that I responded to above this one has reassured me as well. I'll keep Steve in mind for the future though. I foresee danger for my wallet and many more custom leather jackets in the years to come!

 

[OliverTwist]

John Chapman is the master of A2 re-creations. He is great to talk to and makes what I believe to be the finest jackets. If you love A-2s, I recommend getting one of his (even if you fill the gap with another first). Since John is so well versed in the various nuances of the different patterns, he can make the best recommendation for your body type. That's not to say DD doesn't make nice jackets- he does.
But, John is top of the heap for this style of jacket IMHO.

You've typed everything that I was thinking myself... this is definitely the plan!

I'm kicking things off with Dave and I'll surely be in touch with John around this time next year. I'm sure I'll be back posting about it too.

 

[OliverTwist]

I have one of Dave's combat clone A2's in the same contract you have on order (in russet) and i have to say i love it. Would reccommend getting a size up from your usual size, however, best to let Dave advice you on the fit. This particular contract is quite roomy in the arms/arm holes and body but that in my opinion is a good thing as allows for a bit of layering. Stick with Dave his jackets under the guidance of John at GW are just fine.

Mark, one quick question for you - was your combat finish in horsehide as well? Dave mentioned that he'll have to figure out a way to achieve the same look with the horsehide as he got with the steer in those photos on his site. He seems confident that he'll be able to do it. Was the "aging" technique similar with your jacket? I really like the color and patina but I think I might prefer a slightly more subtle treatment; at least I plan to let him know that I wouldn't want the leather to look any more distressed than those photos. I would love to see some pics of your jacket, if you wouldn't mind sharing some.

 

[Technonut]

Wow! Thanks very much for this info. Those steerhides do look dynamite! I'm looking forward to seeing photos and reading more details and feedback of your Star repro. I think for the sake of sportsmanship, I'm going to stick with Dave for this production, as I've already been in contact with him and sent payment, and he did do a knock-out job on my friend's Buco jacket recently. The post that I responded to above this one has reassured me as well. I'll keep Steve in mind for the future though. I foresee danger for my wallet and many more custom leather jackets in the years to come!

Yes, your decision is commendable, and fair. Just another option for you at a later time as you said, and to others who may read this thread. I will be posting a thread showing the jacket after I receive it, and do look forward to pics of your DD after it arrives.

I am in complete agreement with others that JC's jackets are the pinnacle of A-2 repros available at this time, and well worth the 2 year wait for those who can bear it.

 

[OliverTwist]

Sorry, I lied - one more question for you!

What's the weight of your jacket like? I'm in San Francisco and expect that I'll probably be able to wear it throughout most of the year, but I wonder if it would be a mistake to size up only to realize that the jacket's too heavy to layer under in this climate? Oh well, I'm sure I can figure the right sizing out with Dave.

How long did it take you to break yours in and did you find that the leather draped naturally and comfortably from the moment you put it one?

Okay, that was more than one question. I guess I'm a compulsive liar.