A too big coat?

[SteveN]

Gentlemen,

At the same place I got the 'another tweed' jacket, I could not resist picking up a long tweed coat. I knew it was too big, and had hopes that it could be 'shrunk' to my measurements. However, after reading about this very topic, I realise that it's not possible.

I guess you'll be seeing this up for sale soon. In any case, I'm hoping that someone can help date this.

It's a very heavy cloth, with some interesting cuffs. Only one label:

The cuffs are a bit unusual:

and there's a small pocket inside the main pocket. Is this unusual? I notice that the new Harris Tweed has this as well:

Photos of the front & back:

Cheers,
- SteveN

 

[Mike in Seattle]

The small pocket's probably for keys or a pocket watch. I've heard both as explanation to why they're there.

 

[Dinerman]

That's a very nice coat. In what way is it too big? Have you tried it with a jacket and/or thick sweater under it?

 

[SteveN]

That's a very nice coat. In what way is it too big? Have you tried it with a jacket and/or thick sweater under it?

I haven't tried that yet. I'm somewhat small-framed, which normally would work out perfect with vintage I suppose. With just a dress shirt there's 15cm in the chest that I can get when I pull it out. Mainly it's the arms though, which hang down to my knuckles. I think I'd need about 6cm taken off.

What do you think? Can the sleeves be taken up that much? Working with that cuff isn't going to be easy (well, it might be, I don't know). Shoulder width is pretty close to the mark. I'll try to get a photo with me in it.

Anyone want to hazard a guess at the date?

Cheers,
- Steve

 

[SteveN]

Google Earth is Amazing

I looked up the address on the label:

Wortmans
177 High Road
Wood Green, N22
UK

It's a rather large shopping mall at the moment. Perhaps the tailor was located there at some point in the past, which would make it of relatively recent origin, or the tailor shop predates the shopping centre.

Google and the 'net are truly amazing sometimes.

Regards,
- Steve

 

[Nick D]

There's a little catch pocket in my '40s Royal Army greatcoat. My keys and change from the bus driver always end up in it, no matter where I intend them to go.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Thhis jacket is from the 1940s. I'll bet the lining is heavy ribbon satin.

Nice!

bk

 

[SteveN]

Thhis jacket is from the 1940s. I'll bet the lining is heavy ribbon satin.

Nice!

bk

Damn! The one item I manage to pick up that actually is vintage is too big!

Still, all might not be lost. Here's a picture of me in it. What do you think? Can the sleeves be shortened enough? I'm wearing it with a dress shirt here; with a jacket on underneath it fits much better.

I'm not sure what ribbon satin is; will try to look for a description. The lining is a plain, gold-ish colour. I can't convince the iPhone to take a decent close-up, so can't put the image in here.

Cheers,
- Steve

 

[Nick D]

It doesn't look to big to me. It's made to have a suit underneath it, so it should be a little roomy. The sleeves may shorten a bit when there's a jacket underneath.

 

[SteveN]

Thhis jacket is from the 1940s. I'll bet the lining is heavy ribbon satin.

Nice!

bk

BK,

What details lead you to believe that it's 40's vintage? I'm not questioning your judgement, but I'm interested in learning the cues in dating so that I can better date items myself.

Cheers,
- Steve

 

[Baron Kurtz]

The buttons and the collar/lapel shape.

Also, the cuff treatment was very popular as were the style of pockets. I was in Perth earlier in the year and turned down a CC41 DB overcoat in a Good Samaritan's shop with just those cuffs and pockets (the jacket was too heavy and too rotten to be worth shifting back to the UK). Also, note the lapel on this Dunn & co from 30s/40s:

bk

p.s. of course, earlier i meant ribbed satin, not ribbon satin. These were generally lined in satin with a prominent diagonal weave (ribbing).

p.p.s. Your jacket. it doesn't look too bad. Remember it's supposed to be worn over a suit jacket. Wearing over a suit jacket will effectively shorten the sleeves a little - maybe up to 1/2 inch. And the shoulders won't droop so much.

 

[SteveN]

p.s. of course, earlier i meant ribbed satin, not ribbon satin. These were generally lined in satin with a prominent diagonal weave (ribbing).

Yes, that's exactly it; the weave is a sort of diagonal 'stripe' of texture throughout.

- SteveN

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Wood Green is a real craphole, too. I can see why the owner would have wanted to run off to Australia.

bk

 

[scotrace]

Besides, when you run across something that you like, who says it has to fit absolutely perfectly? Allow yourself a little size bracketing in your collection and find ways to make them work. I'd not let something get away because it was a little bit big, and this coat is just a little bit big, at most, one you get a proper suit or sport jacket under it. It's quite a find.

 

[Fletch]

Wood Green is a real craphole, too.

Good clothes - good music, too - used to come from the strangest places - here in the states, Newark, Bridgeport, and Youngstown come to mind. I've owned beautiful vintage garments from all those places.

Of course, back in the day those weren't such benighted cities. (Bridgeport is my mother's hometown - think of it as Philip Roth's Newark without Roth, or his complexes, or those that grow from New York City breathing down your neck.)

About overcoats, it seems that back when suits fit closer, coats fit looser - and by quite a bit. I'm 43 going on 44 reg, and yet I can still get fully dressed into a 40R coat I own from that era, without a pull or a pucker anywhere. A man must have had to carry all manner of odd things under his coat in those days.

 

[Edward]

I have had a few overcoats with an extra internal pocket like that myself; I would suspect that it was intended to be a ticket pocket (bus tickets, train tickets and the like). As to the matter of sizing, it looks spot on to me. You'll want the extra room to move once you have a suit jacket on there, and the sleeves don't look overlong. You'll appreciate them when it gets cold..... and personally, I like a little extra length in the sleeves of an overcoat to keep it over the jacket sleeves. Can't abide the look of a suit sleeve sticking out below an overcoat sleeve myself.

 

[Dinerman]

It looks fine to me.

 

[reetpleat]

I would say th3 efit is fine except for the sleeves. You should have no trouble having them shortened as long as you want. yes, a coat underneath will make them a little shorter, and an overcoat should not be as short as a suit, but you still should have them taken up a bit.

Especially for smaller and shorter guys, there is not much room for oversized. tall skinny guys might pull off the look, but a smaller guy should always be well tailored, lest it make him look even shorter or smaller.

as for dating, on top of the previous, the buttons are obviously vintage if you look closely, and the overall "look" of it, as well as the weight and the style (polo coat with the patch pockets)

granted, being English, it could have been tailored years later in the old style, but more likely just the old style.

Occasionally, in the eighties, you had coats being done in this style to emulate the new wave trend of vintage overcoats, but they tended to be lighter, cheaper looking, and from cheab brands, not custom tailors. So, along with the clues, an experienced eye can easily look and see its vintage due to all the little details.

 

[der schneider]

wear a coat under it while getting fitted for the sleeve adjustment.

an overcoat should be longer than a suit or sport coat.

it doesnt look to bad at all just a minor sleeve adjustment the cuffs should be no problem for a good tailor.