A thought on Bars and Restaurants.

[MK]

I was having a discussion with one of my employees the other day about bars and restaurants. We were at a local eatery celebrating another employees birthday.

I commented about all the televisions in the place. You couldn't escape them. They were everywhere.

That seems to be a growing trend. It started with sports bars. That made sense. The common denominator is drink and athletic sporting events. The problem is trying find a bar now that doesn't have a TV. If that is what you looking for great......but if not, they are very distracting. You trying to have a meaningful conversation but the other person's eyes keep getting pulled away. I do the same thing. The human eye is attacted to movement. It takes constant effort to not get sucked in.

It has become trendy now to have televisions in resaurants too. Even supermarket checkout stands. This may help those with short attantion spans, but I prefer to find places that don't have these distractions.

Those who subscribe to the philosophy that the TV attracts and keeps customers are the same ones that embrace the idea that the way to have a hip place is play loud music so that people can't hear each other without screaming.

Shallow people feel very comfortable in such establishments. There is no need to be intelligent or articulate. Just grin like you are cool and bob your head to the music while acknowledging others by raising your drink.

I have no problem with loud music.....if you at a concert hearing a live band or some dance club.......but not at a restaurant.

Clothing stores try these tactics too. Loud = hip.

But that is a story for another thread.

 

[Brad Bowers]

Ugh, yes, it's almost getting too awful to go anywhere, with loud music and TVs blaring. Unless there's some classical or jazz playing quietly in the background, I'd just as soon have silence. Ambient noise in our society has gotten out of hand.

Brad

 

[Renderking Fisk]

Sorry guys... but the TV's are the last straw for me. It just attracks the retards I'm trying to avoid.

 

[Andykev]

Yes!

I can't hear. Not when there is a room full of people, constant chattering, music, dishes, etc. etc.

I have a hearing loss (a "dip") in the range of....."human speech"...:cry:


So I can hear a bird a mile away chirp, but when the room is full of what you mentioned above...forget it.

I love going to the "swanky" places in famous SF Hotels where the two story ceiling, heavy drapes, and three inch thick carpet muffle the sound. You can TALK to people...HEAR what they say, and exchange IDEAS. If I want to be annoyed by the T.V., I will stay at home. At least there I have the mute button on the remote.

 

[jamespowers]

I agree completely. The real problem is when you have music and the damn TVs on at the same time!
Actually, I think this ambient noise is contributing to our hearing loss. One cannot spend quiet time anymore unless you are alone somewhere---on the top of Mount Kilamanjaro! Planes fly over the house, cars drive by, people are talking the ear is always receiving vibrations and thus no rest. We wear our ears out before their time. I know this because of my time as a youth spent at concerts that would leave one nearly deaf at the end of the night. Fortunately, it would always clear up in the morning but it must have done something.
AndyKev, I know what you mean about sound absorbing materials. They make quite a bit of difference but I do not go to San Francisco for quiet. LOL Just getting to the Swank places will lead you through a cacophony of noise. Not to mention all the bums you have to stumble over along the way. LOL


Regards to all,

J

 

[gcollins]

Indeed, team!

What drives all this, it appears to me, is the same force that drives globalization. Take an easy, standard product, build a brand around it, aim for the mainstream and clone it around the country and the world. And above all, let the media and money drive it.

When I go back to the USA, I am often astounded at how uniform things become. The same restaurant names and strip mall stores in almost every city. The newer, growing cities are the worst--Phoenix, Las Vegas, those suburbs (like Santa Clara county cities) that move to the outskirts of major cities to cater to the middle class soccor families looking for sameness, safety, convenience and uniformity over all else. Life is much too stressful for "regular" people to read and talk about books, get a nice hat from your local hatter, try to make a resonable living, communicate about world affairs and interesting music innovations. And the easy marketing of the Starbucks and Williams & Sonoma and TGI Fridays spreads so easily around the world, and it is....spreading at an alarming pace. One reason, incidentally, much of the developing world has a big beef with globalization and American hubris. That's the seed of 9/11. And still our kids have no idea where Iraq is on the map. It's kind of embarrassing to be American now--we are seen as silly, fat, spoiled and naive. The USA mainstream continues to become more shallow as time goes on. If they only would find a nice hat, things could be different.

When I lived in Portland in the late 80s, my neighborhood committee successfully kicked out McDonalds, who had bought land in our funky nieghborhood of Southeast Hawthorne. We wanted to keep it local and entrepreneurial--brewpubs, cafes, bookshops and international, craftsman and vintage galore. One of the finest weekly events was a marimba band where we could bring our kids to dance and people could be who they are--fundamentalists Christians and Atheist pot smokers could freely mingle and agree to disagree, and everyone was beautiful. Now that I think of it...the neighborhood needed a good hatshop.

But that spirit gave hope to the communities that try to develop their own lifestyles of liberal tolerance, celebration of diversity and local business.

And the rest? They're putting in more big screen TVs so we just spend our money, get fat, don't think too much, and wonder why everyone in the world doesn't understand that the REAL God wants America to win.

Regards,
G

 

[Marlowe]

I'm 40. I've noticed that people of about my age and younger can't seem to get along without TV--or at least radio--AT ALL TIMES. For instance, there's a TV in the tool room where I work. My attitude is, okay, we can watch training videos or the news when it's on. But my co-workers come in, turn the TV on first thing--whether they plan to watch it or not. They'll turn it on and then dig out their laptop or get on the tool room computer. And they'll just leave it on for their entire shift. So the TV is some kind of pacifier or background noisemaker. Sometimes it's everything at once: the TV, the computer, the radio.

I think maybe it's because mothers' lives were made simpler by putting Junior and his siblings in front of a TV while Mom was fixing something to eat, or what have you. People are so used to the TV that they feel lonely without it. It has become one of those perquisites of modern civilized life that people can't imagine doing without, like toilet paper, indoor plumbing or electricity.

It's unsettling to me because commercial TV is propaganda. (I include PBS which, perhaps not for profit, still has to find money to operate.) In fact, in my opinion, all film is propaganda. I came to this conclusion while watching a program on A&E which was about some thing of which I had knowledge. I was more than half tempted to believe something that I had learned from other sources (books) was a common myth. I realized that when the screen shows you what the filmmakers want you to see (and "seeing is believing!"), the music and/or sound effects are in your ears (supporting the conclusion you are being led to) and the narrator is telling you in his authoritative baritone what the writers wanted you to hear, it's difficult NOT to believe whatever they tell you. While watching a film, it's difficult to immediately come up with arguments against what is being presented from the filmmaker's point of view. The relevant point is passed before you can argue it, and there's no one to argue with, unless you can stop the film and discuss it with someone (if only yourself). And how often does that happen? Film and television are an effective way to bypass our critical thinking, if we were ever taught any thinking skills.

I believe that is one of the greatest dangers in American society these days. No teaching or use of argument, conversation, debate or critical thinking. Arguments and debate descend into name-calling, attacking the arguer, not the argument. (Seen any political ads lately?) And in a democratic republic like ours, where an informed, reasonable, educated voter is crucial, that's a recipe for disaster.

And disaster is what we've arrived at, in my opinion. Voter turn-out is too low, special-interest lobbyists basically buy votes from our elected representatives, crackpot extremists get too much attention from the news media, making the rest of their party look equally dumb-ass, elections are decided by television advertising budget... The list of problems goes on and on.

Critical thinking and education would do much to alleviate these ills, but education costs tax money (unless you're rich and can afford to send your kids to private schools) and that's out of vogue these days when it's not "New Math" or "self-esteem" or "social promotion" or "the universality of the human experience" or some other such vague, nebulous vapor.

Well, I've blathered on too long and run off-topic by quite a ways. Maybe I'll go watch the boob tube for a while...

 

[Nathan Flowers]

I hate televisions, personally. And while I haven't been in a bar before, I plan on going to a few while in Charleston SC on business this November. I have heard there are quite a few classy and historic pubs/bars in the old Battery area there.

 

[MK]

I agree that the world is getting too homogenized. It seems wierd.....and sad....when I travel abroad and see Starbucks and Burger King in Tokyo or London.

Originally posted by gcollins
It's kind of embarrassing to be American now--we are seen as silly, fat, spoiled and naive.

I can't agree there. I am proud to be an American.

Sure there are knucklehead tourist that embarrass me. I just wish they would have stayed home.

Those who think all Americans are silly or naive are just having delusions of grandeur......then they usually turn around ask us to save their hide.

Major Strasser: You give him credit for too much cleverness. My impression was that he's just another blundering American.
Captain Renault: We musn't underestimate American blundering. I was with them when they blundered into Berlin in 1918.

To bring this thread back on track.....I am glad to read that I am not the only one who feels this way about TVs and loud music.

 

[The Wingnut]

I'm an American, and I am not silly, fat spoiled or naive, nor do I know many that are.

Personally, I think television is a bane of society, just as are cell phones. Our society has increasingly been taught more and more over the years to simply learn instead of THINK. We teach our children to soak in information and spit it back out to survive, but we don't teach them to carefully examine what's presented to them, no matter the source. We're raising generations of video game addicts and overgrown kids, whose idea of an entertaining evening might be to hole themselves up in their house with a DVD or a console game system and suck down sodas and chips, instead of going for a walk or socializing with neighbors on the porch...not that many people even have porches anymore. Few modern houses are built with them.

At some point, people decided that they like their own company and that of a TV to 'veg out' to instead of the company of their peers...and yet they wonder why our country's overall intelligence is taking a hit. We've turned into a nation of complacent, self-serving slobs.

I'm moving soon, probably next week. I don't own a TV and my 'net access will be knocked back down to dialup due to where I'm moving to. I'll be glad to get away from my roommate's home theater, and to spend less time surfing every night. It'll force me to do things that will excercise my mind.

 

[MK]

The internet has replaced a lot of my TV watching. I question my internet time. It is a lot more engaging than TV. There is an exchange of ideas......yet it can't replace real life with real people.

 

[jamespowers]

Originally posted by MK
The internet has replaced a lot of my TV watching. I question my internet time. It is a lot more engaging than TV. There is an exchange of ideas......yet it can't replace real life with real people.

I agree. It cannot replace real life but there are a few things that the internet and a forum like this does.
1. It forces many that do not write often to sharpen their writing skills.
2. I doubt I would understand half the things I do without such world wide access to news, ideas, interesting people (like we have here) and sometimes many things that some deem esoterica.
3. It is a great resource for finding things that you need---some you didn't know you needed. LOL
4. Some people do not read much on their own. This medium forces them to do as such.
5. Sort of a continuation of the 4th but it advances critical thinking. You read all this stuff and it is entirely up to you to interpret it---unlike the junk news you get on TV that tells you what to think rather than just presenting a thought provoking idea or happening.
Just my two cents worth. I am not defending the ENTIRE internet but there certainly are interesting forums like FL.
By all means, get out there and talk to "real" people as well. It sort of augments the things you learn on the net. You can use new arguments on your friends. LOL

Regards to all,

J

 

[Brad Bowers]

I enjoy the ideas, photos, knowledge, values, and engaging discussions we share on the Lounge. I haven't found anyone else where I live that I can talk about these things, except my wife.

Brad Bowers

 

[Marlowe]

I would agree that internet fora like this one can sharpen writing and thinking skills, but "it ain't necessarily so." There are plenty of bulletin boards and chat rooms where stating your opinion will make you the butt of personal attacks ("flames"), where you will easily find people who seem to have no concept whatsoever of spelling, grammar, punctuation and all the other things that make a language like English precise, elegant and beautiful--even poetic.* I've even seen some of these things happen here! However, it is FAR more challenging to the ol' noggin than "vegetating" in front of the idiot box.


*I admire Sharpetoys for sticking to the plan and at least attempting to use capitalization, grammar, punctuation and so on, even though he's only using one finger of one hand to type.

 

[Bogie1943]

Indeed Gentlemen, the world is becoming over everything these days, over exposed, over sexed, over run by the entertainment industry. I know that may sound hipacritical coming from me being in that industry. However I feel it a 100% true of todays society, I know we all long for the old days, a more simple time away from TV and the demize of music I call rap! Thank God there are people like us out there or I fear the world is headed down the drain. It is as much a social issue as it is a political one, not to get into politics but I do feel the Gov. could be doing more to protect people against all of this constant profanity,sex, and just plain disgusting things that have imbedded themselves into our lives. I mean I m not saying there is anything wrong with sex but every time you turn on the TV that's what you see, every time, it never fails. We have just so much of our moral standing over the years it's really scarey. I know all of you here feel like I do about this, that's why we love the golden era. You could go out and not be bombarded by these kinds of things 24-7, it's nearing impossible to avoid these days. I just feel we as a people need to re-thinking our ways of living.

 

[The_Edge]

Well how 'bout that. This really is like a real gentleman's club. A group of elitist snobs stroking their own egos. There is just too much hypocrisy in this thread for me to take the time to counter. I'm just too damn tired to go through and hit every point. I guess I'm one of those stupid slobs that appreciates finding a McDonalds in just about every town. I'm a picky eater and if I'm on the road it is nice that I can be a thousand miles from home and still find a standardized meal I know I will enjoy. Damn that free enterprise stuff!!

The other thing is that I love to be outdoors and get my hands dirty. I love to hike and camp. I love to make whips and crack them. I love getting some fresh mountain air with my tomahawk hanging from my belt. But I also have a great time when I park my butt on my reclining sofa for the evening with my popcorn and soda, power up my television and surround sound system and watch one of my many, many DVD's. OH, THE UTTER HORROR OF IT ALL!!! It gets worse... I even enjoy watching network programming beamed into my home through my Dish Network receiver. OH, THE HUMANITY!!

Yeah, it's true. I think the television is a marvelous invention. Its pretty neat-o. Just like microwave ovens, automobiles, mobile phones and my weed-eater with rechargable battery pack. All neat stuff that I enjoy. I find the internet to be an amazing invention and tool as well. Of course, none of you would know that since you're all out living in log cabins, reading H.D. Thoreau, lamenting the fat, lazy American, and shunning modern inventions. My apologies to you enlightened individuals.

I almost forgot the topic. Yes, I get tired of televisions and loud music in restaurants too.

 

[Andykev]

Oh really?

I believe that just prior to Peral Harbor, the Japaneese military leaders considered the Americans as a culture to be fat, lazy, and unwilling to fight. That was one of the arguments that they convinced themselves that it would be an easy victory for them.

Well, Americans as a whole are NOT like that. We've gone to Europe for two major world wars, beat Communism in Russia, and have kept most of the world safe.

Agree or not, ask those in many lands from different cultures...they want our products, imitate our fads and trents, and flock to our shores looking for a better life.

Funny, I don't see many Americans fleeing to live in many other places around the world. Our standard of living is far above almost everyone else.

 

[MK]

I know it's Monday, Edge......but....GEEEES!

 

[The_Edge]

Originally posted by MK
I know it's Monday, Edge......but....GEEEES!

Sorry, MK. I was just upset that gcollins' kids can't find Iraq on a map. It's just heartbreaking.

 

[Bogie1943]

Edge I am not condeming modern conviniences by any means, all I am trying to say is that sometimes one has to get away from it all, you knowing that best being an avid outdoorsman like myself. I don't really feel we are a group of a elittisits, just people concerned with our cultural habits of today. Don't feel I am angery with what you said, I am not just making myself clear. I just am one of those people who at times long for a simple way of life of the golden era. This is not an all day feeling, just at those times when the modern/tech world gets overwhelming. I know we all can understand that. I take heed to you point of view, we should not let this go to our heads and let us not get full of ourselves. I know that most of you gentlemen are not like that, like I said I think we could tone down the wildness out there.