A Message From Aero Leather USA

[pauleway]

I think so...plus not as many utility jacket fans on the VLJ..it seems. Plus Mark quit handling Aero A2s,etc a few years ago. I did notice that Mark Moye deleted his VLJ membership a few days ago.
HD

What is VLJ ??? Sorry if this is a dumb question!

 

[ButteMT61]

http://www.vintageleatherjackets.org/

You have to join to read/post though.

Mostly about vintage mil jacketry, but others welcome too.

 

[cloudylemonade]

Just to update you guys, I'm heading off to London for a few days for a holiday booked long before this all came to light. I'll be trying to check in, and check emails, but if anyone has any urgent information or enquires, please contact my dad on ken@aeroleatherclothing.com.

Thanks, hope you all have a good Easter break.

 

[Jack Burton]

This is one of the best posts I have seen in this long, depressing thread. It seems to be the best rationalization for the current situation.

That's exactly what it is, a rationalization.

What were Moye's overhead costs? He had no storefront, no 1-800 number. He did have a small website with some pics ($20 a month?).

Moye had no employees, nor any upfront labor or material costs nor any stock tying his cash up. Any of his product related costs were incurred by him after a customer had already paid him. Aero makes it sound like he paid them when the jackets were ready rather than requiring him to pay a large upfront deposit. So this was a business which required minimal investment on his part.

Seeing how he left dozens and dozens of people in the lurch, I have to believe for at least the past year, he took peoples money with no intention of getting them jackets and it had nothing to do with AeroUSA being insolvent, just a person acting criminally.

 

[pattonfan]

That's exactly what it is, a rationalization.

Amen.

 

[Michaelson]

With so many cross-posters, I'm not surprised. How many folks want to post in two places about the same thing. FWIW, on COW, they pointed here too - likely due to less interest and to cut down on drama there.Seems smart to keep it in one place.

True, that. Why dillute the subject by spreading the discussion about when it's well in hand here? Regards! Michaelson

 

[derleicaman]

With so many cross-posters, I'm not surprised. How many folks want to post in two places about the same thing. FWIW, on COW, they pointed here too - likely due to less interest and to cut down on drama there.Seems smart to keep it in one place.

Hey Scott, what is COW, apart from its obvious conotation?

 

[ButteMT61]

Hey Scott, what is COW, apart from its obvious conotation?

Club Obi Wan. Dedicated to all that is Indy Jones! But Michaelson could probably do a better job selling it

 

[Atticus Finch]

Seeing how he left dozens and dozens of people in the lurch, I have to believe for at least the past year, he took peoples money with no intention of getting them jackets and it had nothing to do with AeroUSA being insolvent, just a person acting criminally.

What you "believe" may be right. He may have acted criminally. But I've seen scant evidence of that at this point. Right now, I've only seen rank speculation and raw emotions...including yours. I'm not sure how many fraud cases you've evaluated for presentation to a Grand Jury but I've got hundreds of those cases under my belt. And I've even had the privilege of trying a couple hundred of my Grand Jury indictments in Superior Courts to see if trial juries agreed with my decisions. Bottom line is this: If an investigator brought me the information we have accumlated here for criminal indictment, I would laugh in that officer's face. But I you are free to disregard my advice and continue calling Mark Moye a criminal or whatever you want to call him. And maybe you'll also let us know when you get your money back.

AF

 

[feltfan]

Easy to say for a guy who didn't lose $2000 and been jerked around for years like some of the people here...

Ah Dr. V, you could *ask* if I had a dog in this fight.
As it turns out, I did. Happily, I can now say I got my jacket.

I will tell the complete story soon. But for now let me just say that after over two years of
waiting, my Hercules arrived today. On 3/28 I received email from Mark Moye that said, in part,
"Hope all is ok with the fit and everything in general. Don't know if you're aware but I was forced
to close my business last week and have severed all ties and connections with the Aero factory in Scotland."
His original underline. The fit and everything is, in fact, ok. I have been sweating with every post here.

At this point it feels like my jacket got on the last helicopter out of Aero USA...

Best of luck to all here. Hoping that when I post my full story it will be of some use to others.

 

[oneterrifichog]

Ah Dr. V, you could *ask* if I had a dog in this fight.
As it turns out, I did. Happily, I can now say I got my jacket.

I will tell the complete story soon. But for now let me just say that after over two years of
waiting, my Hercules arrived today. On 3/28 I received email from Mark Moye that said, in part,
"Hope all is ok with the fit and everything in general. Don't know if you're aware but I was forced
to close my business last week and have severed all ties and connections with the Aero factory in Scotland."
His original underline. The fit and everything is, in fact, ok. I have been sweating with every post here.

At this point it feels like my jacket got on the last helicopter out of Aero USA...

Best of luck to all here. Hoping that when I post my full story it will be of some use to others.

Nice to hear positive news, here's hoping good news will come in time.

 

[Jim Brown]

two years waiting for a jacket? Once you're up to telling your story, would you list measurements and specs so Aero can cross reference that order to when it was actually placed?

Why did wait 7 days to release this info for all these guys waiting?

 

[Grayland]

two years waiting for a jacket? Once you're up to telling your story, would you list measurements and specs so Aero can cross reference that order to when it was actually placed?

Why did wait 7 days to release this info for all these guys waiting?[/QUOTE]

He was told it was coming on 3/28 but didn't actually get the jacket until today. He was probably keeping his mouth shut, hoping and praying that he would actually get the jacket. I don't blame him. Good for him!

 

[Jack Burton]

What you "believe" may be right. He may have acted criminally. But I've seen scant evidence of that at this point. Right now, I've only seen rank speculation and raw emotions...including yours. I'm not sure how many fraud cases you've evaluated for presentation to a Grand Jury but I've got hundreds of those cases under my belt. And I've even had the privilege of trying a couple hundred of my Grand Jury indictments in Superior Courts to see if trial juries agreed with my decisions. Bottom line is this: If an investigator brought me the information we have accumulated here for criminal indictment, I would laugh in that officer's face. But I you are free to disregard my advice and continue calling Mark Moye a criminal or whatever you want to call him. And maybe you'll also let us know when you get your money back.

AF

Lol, what planet are you on? Aside from a chance to toot your own horn, I don't understand why you'd even make such an irrelevant condescending post. What have you seen? What investigation has taken place that we know of yet? The whole reason people are getting the police involved with this is because they believe that someone has acted criminally and they want the authorities to look into it. Should we call the Columbia police and say "I believe someone has been a poopie-head but I won't say that they acted criminally because I wouldn't want to tarnish their good name?"

I was one of the last people here to believe in Mark. I even encouraged people not to use terms like "fraud" in a past post. That was before certain things transpired. You're not involved with this fiasco directly nor indirectly, so you lack details of what's going on. Hence I don't care what your unsolicited unpaid advice is.

 

[jlanderson]

Lol, what planet are you on? Aside from a chance to toot your own horn, I don't understand why you'd even make such an irrelevant condescending post. What have you seen? What investigation has taken place that we know of yet? The whole reason people are getting the police involved with this is because they believe that someone has acted criminally and they want the authorities to look into it. Should we call the Columbia police and say "I believe someone has been a poopie-head but I won't say that they acted criminally because I wouldn't want to tarnish their good name?"

I was one of the last people here to believe in Mark. I even encouraged people not to use terms like "fraud" in a past post. That was before certain things transpired. You're not involved with this fiasco directly nor indirectly, so you lack details of what's going on. Hence I don't care what your unsolicited unpaid advice is.

I know, it did sound a little stuffy, but he has a very good point we ought to heed. Moye's presumed not guily. If we continue to level specific legal charges against him -- and I did it in one post when I was in an angry mood -- we could find ourselves at the receiving end of a defamation suit. And the Fedora Lounge could get drawn into it too, as the republisher of our defamatory remarks.

Still, I want my damned money back, and I want some explanation from Moye for his extraordinarily bad behavior.

 

[feltfan]

oneterrifichog, yes, trying to get some positive news out there. grayland, thanks and yeah, until I had that jacket behind my locked front door,
I had nothing specific to say. I'm still trying to shake a flu so I won't post details until I can think straight.

Everybody, we're all worked up about this. Let's go easy on each other.

 

[Edward]

I know, it did sound a little stuffy, but he has a very good point we ought to heed. Moye's presumed not guily. If we continue to level specific legal charges against him -- and I did it in one post when I was in an angry mood -- we could find ourselves at the receiving end of a defamation suit. And the Fedora Lounge could get drawn into it too, as the republisher of our defamatory remarks.

Still, I want my damned money back, and I want some explanation from Moye for his extraordinarily bad behavior.

Not under US law. Crazy as it may sound, as long as it's third party content a website cannot be touched for defamation, even if completely aware of an actual defamation.

 

[jlanderson]

Don't know if you're aware but I was forced
to close my business last week and have severed all ties and connections with the Aero factory in Scotland."

Wow, you actually heard from the guy? After numerous emails and a couple of voicemails, I heard nothing from him other than that last email on Monday, March 26, saying he would refund my deposit "in a day or so." After that, nothing.

Please, please tell us all of this story sooner rather than later.

And it is interesting that this is evidently how Moye is spinning the fact that Aero Scotland cut off his account back in December. Scotland forced him to close his business and sever ties??!!?? That's rich. Actions speak louder than words. Moye has done nothing to make me think he was ever in my corner as a businessman.

 

[jlanderson]

Not under US law. Crazy as it may sound, as long as it's third party content a website cannot be touched for defamation, even if completely aware of an actual defamation.

I'm not so sure of that. Were I to publish a letter to the editor that was determined to be defamatory, both the author of the letter AND my newspaper would liable. The letter writer as the original source of the defamation, the paper as the republisher. And that goes for our website, too.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

I suspect that, as an academic lawyer who focuses on internet law, Ed might know what he's talking about. Challenge at your own peril! I await case histories

bk